Myth or true?

is it true that the russians used human wave attack in battle of stalingrad?

oh also the chinese too in korean war, is it true or just a myth?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_wave_attack#People.27s_Liberation_Army
eisenhowerinstitute.org/about/living_history/wwii_soviet_experience.dot
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Winter_Storm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gallop
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bagration
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demyansk_Pocket
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Seelow_Heights
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petsamo–Kirkenes_Offensive
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mars
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Raseiniai
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartu_Offensive
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vistula–Oder_Offensive
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Offensive
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voronezh-Kastornensk_operation
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilnius_Offensive
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_II)
tankarchives.blogspot.com/2013/05/german-soldier-quality.html
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Yes. Also German officers regulary took showers right on the battlefield.

pls.......

It's true. There's this (perhaps apocryphal) story of Zhukov counting the casualties after a raid on a German machine gun nest in Stalingrad. Zhukov reads out loud from a piece of paper '...five, six, seven. Seven. Not bad.'

A sergeant replies 'Only seven deaths, comrade Zhukov? That is excellent!'
Zhukov answered 'I was counting by the thousands'.

You have to realize though what Russia had was men. That was their advantage. They couldn't poperly feed them or arm them. The soilders usually had to forage for their own food and many people had no rifle. During Stalingrad there was that thing where the man in front got the rifle and the guy behind him got a rifle clip. Durong 43' these things got sorted out.

"Human wave" has an incredibly broad definition and both sides at Stalingrad used tactics that fall under it.

>The most common Russian form of combat was the use of mass. Human mass and mass of matériel were generally used unintelligently and without variation, but under the conditions, they were always effective. Both had to be available before they could be used so lavishly and were therefore dependent upon limitless Russian supplies. The Russian disdain for life — always present, but infinitely heightened by communism — favored this practice. A Russian attack which had been twice repulsed with unheard-of losses would be repeated a third and a fourth time at the same place and in the same fashion. Unimpressed by previous failures and losses, new waves always came on. An unusual inflexibility of mind and unimaginative obstinacy lay in this use of masses, and was dearly paid for. It is not possible to estimate Russian casualties in World War II with any degree of accuracy; there will always be a potential error of many hundred thousands. This inflexible method of warfare, with the objective of accomplishing everything through the use of human masses, is the most inhuman and costly possible.

Generaloberst Erhard Raus
Commander, 4th and 3rd Panzer Armies

>German bad men with guns. We run at gun long time. Gun no shoot more. Rape time now.

Konstantin Rokossovsky
Marshal, 16th Army

Human wave tends to be two things.
1) Propaganda by one side to show how the other side was an inhuman piece of shit.
2) An attack that has gone very, very wrong.

Consider the Chinese example:
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_wave_attack#People.27s_Liberation_Army
>Later, the term "human wave attack" was often misused[26] to describe the Chinese short attack — a combination of infiltration and the shock tactics employed by the PLA during the Korean War.[27]
>A typical Chinese short attack was carried out at night by small fireteams on a narrow front against the weakest point in enemy defenses.[27] The Chinese assault team would crawl undetected within grenade range, then launch surprise attacks against the defenders in order to breach the defenses by relying on maximum shock and confusion.[27]
>If the initial shock failed to breach the defenses, additional fireteams would press on behind them and attack the same point until a breach was created.[27] Once penetration was achieved, the bulk of the Chinese forces would move into the enemy rear and attack from behind.[29] During the attacks, the Chinese assault teams would disperse while masking themselves using the terrain, and this made it difficult for UN defenders to target numerous Chinese troops.[7] Attacks by the successive Chinese fireteams were also carefully timed to minimize casualties.[30]
But to be fair.
>Due to primitive communication systems and tight political controls within the Chinese army, short attacks were often repeated indefinitely until either the defenses were penetrated or the attacker's ammunition supply were exhausted, regardless of the chances of success or the human cost

tl;dr Chinese were using an upgraded verson of WWI German Stormtrooper tactics. Tended to look like human waves when it fucking fails.

It doesnt even start with hordes of screaming chinese, but with Chang, Ling, Pong, and Tong sneaking up to your position and lobbing grenades.

>Konstantin-Rokossovsky.jpg
Jesus Christ, look at those medals! Did he destroy an entire German army with his bare hands?

Those are rape medals.

Thats a meme

literally a meme
is there even any evidence behind it?

Jesus Christ, did he rape an entire city of German wenches with his bare dick?

A good post but honestly it have sounds like a Chink rationalizing attacking the same point with waves of dudes again and again.

>is there even any evidence behind it?

Not him but throughout the war the Soviets were very adapt and reliant on the improvised regrouping of formations, especially when those formations were already weakened, as was the 62nd Army defending Stalingrad. From Chuikov's own account:

>"It means that our soldiers (even small units) crawled out from under German tanks, more often than not wounded, to another position, where they were received, incorporated into another unit, provided with equipment and then they went back into battle."

He also noted that [at the beginning of the fighting in the actual city] one armoured brigade had only one tank left, and two other brigades without any tanks had to be sent across the Volga to refit. One division had two infantry brigades that were full, but the composite regiment of another division only fielded 100 infantrymen. Chuikov stated that another division had a total of 1500 men;

>“the motorized infantry brigade had 666 men, including no more than 200 infantrymen; the Guards Division of Colonel Dubyanski on the left flank had no more than 250 infantrymen”.

Anyone who tells you they know the exact supply situation of a Soviet unit fighting inside Stalingrad is lying.

Are you serious ?

>tfw step father in law told me stories of being wounded by grenades at Chonsen and having to fight the battle with his pants off and wounded because chinese broke through to the medical area.

The chinese and russians have never been adept at warfare. If the Nazi's faced against a soviet union with a 1:1 ratio, it would have been an easier than the battle of france.

The japanese military by the first and second sino-japanese wars were westernized, heavily influenced upon by the european militaries, that is why in both wars the chinese had more than 3 times the amount of soldiers than the japanese yet were still losing.

You have to remember at this time, the Germans still had a noticeable advantage in artillery. As a way to neutralize this advantage, Vasily Chuykov devised the tactic of "hugging" the Germans, aka staying so damn close that German artillery that they couldn't safety fire.

(Source: Soviet Storm, episode 7)

This might be what was mistaken for "human wave" attacks.

But yeah, the Chinese definitely used human wave attacks. A common American joke from the Korean War was "How many hordes are in a Chinese platoon?"

retard most of the time the rario was 1.5-2:1

I wonder why I never see evidence for this human wave bullshit ooooh because it is pop science gaming hollywood bullshit.

Watch the "3 alibis of the wehrmacht" on yt and stop embarrassing yourself

>hurr I'm a dumb fucking americunt I'm 170cm tall, have jewish squeaky voice and take my historical knowledge from Cartoon Network I wish I didn't have down's syndrome and could understand humor that isn't about farts and burping but I live to serve my jewish overlords not to think also I love getting shot

At Stalingrad and other battles they absolutely did with penal battalions at least.

You might even get away with calling one of their grand strategy ideas, Deep Battle, a human-wave in a sense.

>retard most of the time the rario was 1.5-2:1

Complete lie. there were more than 20 million russian soliders during world war 2, with a slight consensus saying it was nearly 34 million soldiers in cumulative total during ww2.

The Wehrmacht had 13 million soldiers (cumulative) maximum, you also have to consider many of these soldiers sent to the western, while the soviet union put all their numbers against germany (with very few on the japan sea border).

As for deaths between 8.5 and 12 million russian soldiers were killed, while around 3-5 million german soldiers died.

>stop embarrassing yourself

Lol says the guy that the ratio was "1.5-2.1" did you pull that number out of your ass?

Here's a source, read something trustworthy for once.

eisenhowerinstitute.org/about/living_history/wwii_soviet_experience.dot

The manpower pool is orrelevant just look how many men fought in a battle that is what we are talking about.

Next time think before you post

lmao

We talk about ratios in a battle
He talks about the manpower pool

use your brain just once Untermensch

>Manpower pool is irrelevant to battles
>muh only 2:1 ratios in eastern front

>11 million russian soldiers died
>3 million german soldiers die in eastern front
>retard most of the time the rario was 1.5-2:1

Some great alternate history right here. If the ratios were 2:1 against the germans they would have won the eastern front as easily as the battle of france.

They did but not always. When large troop formations got caught in pockets back in '41 they'd try to break out. There are German reports of dead Russians just piling up in front of German mgs. Also being commanded by commissars who didn't know anything besides loyalty to the party didn't help either.

Okay you have to be trolling or you are fucking retarded.

Look at the actual numbers how many soviets fought in the battles against the wehrmacht the ratios are around 1.5-2.5(max).

It is absolutely irrelevant how many soldiers died in the battles.

The total manpower is absolutely irrelevant .

We are talking about the ratios on the battlefield you fucking downy.

dumbass liar

Why do wehraboos never seem to know what POWs are? Same for Cuckfederates really.

No Steve it is not true. Russians did not want to get restricted by mine fields, that's all.

>We are talking about the ratios on the battlefield you fucking downy.


Did a little bit of research just for you and these are individual battles in which the germans were heavily outnumbered.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Winter_Storm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gallop
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bagration
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demyansk_Pocket
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Seelow_Heights
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petsamo–Kirkenes_Offensive
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mars
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Raseiniai
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartu_Offensive
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vistula–Oder_Offensive
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Offensive
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voronezh-Kastornensk_operation
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilnius_Offensive

woops forgot one more

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_II)

But was he being serious?

Lets pick a bunch of 44 and 45 battles but only the ones that fit my argument that will show him.

partial myth and partial truth.

more than anything, the Soviets used sneak attacks at night against German positions and would only use mass assaults if they had the material for it, ie arty and rocket arty support, tanks, and infantry.
Since Stalingrad was urban warfare, it wasn't really prudent to use wave attacks (though I don't have many Stalingrad memoirs, only like two, soon three books)

also, the whole "every other man a rifle" is such a myth perpetuated by hollywood it's hilarious.
the only units that had that were the DNO and LANO units, but they got a bunch of western gear from the armories from ww1 and the RCW. there are accounts of men getting rifles from the rear before going out to fight.

t. self-taught eastern front historian/living historian

Rifles and rifle ammo were literally the one thing the red army never had a single shortage of throughout the entire war. They made so many mosin nagants that they're still dirt cheap today.

Most Nagants were prduced before the war and after 1942. Between 1941 and 42 the red army had a serious lack of weapons, because the factories weren't moved behind the ural yet. After that, they even droppend production of the SVT-40, to arm the masses as fast as possible with PPsh's and Mosins.

> 3) actual human wave attacks

"The [Communist] offensive began on 22 April [1951], but had already been halted by the 30th, with 70,000 casualties, Seoul still out of reach, and the advance in the central sector blunted after 40 miles by the stand of the 29th British Bde at Imjin.

On 17 May pressure switched to the east in the Second Spring Offensive, with 21 Chinese divisions and two North Korean Armies, but after four days and 90,000 casualties the advanced petered out.

The Chinese were shattered, and realized that even their virtually unlimited human resources could not overcome the murderous UN firepower.”

-- "The Korean War 1950-53" - Thomas, Abbot, Chappell 1986 --

>"It means that our soldiers (even small units) crawled out from under German tanks, more often than not wounded, to another position, where they were received, incorporated into another unit, provided with equipment and then they went back into battle."

What is something every army did since the beginning of warfare.

Myth based on reality. Russian soldiers were conscripted and pushed on front with very limited training, meanwhile Wermacht had so damn tough training that 1% of trainees ended as casulties. Add to that traditional Russian weakness in junior officers and traditional German strenght in junior officers and well working command structure in general and you´ll get the numbers.

Read about Stalingrad... Entire battalions destroyed in a matter of hours after being shipped across the Volga. Read about the fighting for the hill "Mamayev Kurgan". Absolutely crazy.

Example:
>"The division's 10,000 men immediately rushed into the battle. On 16 September they recaptured Mamayev Kurgan[4] and kept fighting for the railway station, taking heavy losses. By the following day, almost all of them had died."

Almost 10,000 men died in one day, the division was just gone.

There isn't really any reason to believe that German conscripts were superior to Soviet conscripts and vice versa

tankarchives.blogspot.com/2013/05/german-soldier-quality.html

>sergeant in the pressence of a general
also
>believing anything that the soviets claim as storys

russians handed out medals like candy

soldiers stationed in the far east recieved victory in Europe medals

It isn't.

More like for the longest time in Chinese history from 1920-1950s, Chinese armies only have infantry to work with.

No tanks, very limited motorization, and at times no artillery.

The only modern Chinese army at that time period was the one KMT commanded and boy were they defeated.

Consider what it looked like when it worked though, in the early days of the conflict when the U.S. forces were dispersed enough to allow for strategic mobility:

The Chinese would hit a single point, and before the Americans would even know it, they would be deeply penetrated and encircled, overrun divisional headquarters or medical areas

And American heavy equipment would frequently be abandoned without ever being fired against the enemy. How is that human wave tactics?

>Second Sino-Japanese War
>Chinese
>Losing
Yeah, the Chinese were so losing, that by 1941, the war was 4 years old and became Japan's Vietnam War of sorts, with a stagnant front and a troublesome occupied zone crawling with guerillas.

can never win with you

>Japan capture shanghai and chinese capital nanjing
>Over 22 million chinese dead, while japan only lost around 1 million.
>chinese forces never landed in japan
>nope not losing

kill
your
self

>waaaaah stop attacking me with more men, its just not FAIR, we could beat you in a FAIR fight

How are those slav rape babies going for you by wehraboo friend?

>muh kda
>muh painted areas of control

go back to video games. Japan's objectives for china were similar to what it did to Taiwan; in that regard they were far from successful. That's not to say that the chinese were winning in anyway but this isn't Call of Duty.

>Casualty ratios doesn't matter in war.
>chinks and russians never used human wave tactics

Pick one

And yet, after 4 years, Japan decided they had a better hope of winning the conflict against America than they did against China.