Let's have an ottoman thread

Ah fuck off when it was possible it wasn't necessary and when it was it wasn't possible anymore.

t.rape baby balkanlar

fpbp

>To charge the Bongs (and whomever else) huge amounts of money to use it.
That just gives everyone more power than them (everyone in Europe) an even bigger desire to conquer Egypt from them.

This

By that "logic" no government would ever make any capital improvements ever.

Also

>being richer makes you weaker

Their system was an oldskool eastern warlord empire system. Industrialization would mean changes in the internal power structure, something that traditionally the warrior caste abhores...
Thank you Greece and rest of the Balkans for revolting and NeoTurks for killing the thing.

No government would ever make capital improvements they couldn't control and protect. The Ottomans can more effectively tax and regulate overland trade through the Middle East as they usually could secure the loyalties and safety of its merchants and transporters from its rivals.

Exactly how would the Ottomans defend a Suez Canal from the likes of Western navies without effectively selling most of its profits over to one of them to do the job?

I guess I'm just not seeing this the way you are. I'm seeing it as the Turks are losing money due to all these new paths, therefore they should make the canal. This money could be used for defense, including defending the canal.

It seems like you think the canal wouldn't be useful until the empire was already weak. Am I fairly representing your position?

I'm saying it'd be like the Qing dynasty wanting to set up trade markets and plantations in the Straits of Malacca because they'd make money hand over foot, all while the Portuguese, Dutch, and British were flooding the Indian and Pacific Ocean with ships that could take on dozens of theirs.

Unless they figured out how to turn their silver coins into explosives, throwing more money at a European frigate isn't going to solve that security issue.

These new paths you're referring to made money because European powers could dominate them with military force, and unless you could somehow defend against it you weren't ever going to profit yourself from that trade the same way.

any good books about byzantine epoch?

Nothing. Every empire has an end and the Ottomans lived a good 600 years.

>Implying your shit country isn't universally hated by everyone
Netherlans here, you are the shitstain of Earth.

Please. Nobody really gives a shit about Turkey and the only reason Veeky Forums posters can even point to it on a map is because it's a meme to hate it.

t. American

>Netherlans
No one cares, you're irrelevant and disappointed all of /pol/ with your recent election.

>disappointed a bunch of american sharts.
how is that a bad thing again?

Not the user you're arguing with but you're looking at history from a hindsight. On top of that you're overlooking things.

Brits made the canal because it was a necessity. That's what drives empires to draw up plans.

Ottoman don't need the suez canal. And they don't need to charge Brits over it because there is no guarantee or even a good chance Brits will pay for them. So building the suez canal would be a profit loss.

And other Europeans. But don't let the facts be more important to your feelings of course.

The brits literally didn't dig it what the fuck

The french did, and the brits took it. Napoleon invaded egypt earlier and the thought was that egypt was going to be french, but since france was shat all over by bad leaders and germany that whole era they never did anything very important. Instead egypt got the lazy and less invested and uninspired british rule.

Yeah I think the election failed but why would I give a fuck what that shit board thinks?

>What did the ottomans do wrong in their later half of existence
Bureaucracy
>The fact they controlled Egypt for centuries and never dug the Suez Canal is mindbogglingly stupid.
Bureaucracy. The idea didn't give enough momentum to cut through it

I came here for comfy ottoman pics, so post them

Make google find you comfy ottoman pics. Automate your search

Bureaucracy is needed for every orderly state though.
Also one success of the ottomans were their efficient bureaucracy until it became corrupt and shit ofcourse.

Why did they genocide my people?

Which one is your people?

>I never had any contact with Turks therefore it's a meme to hate them
you sound exactly like those liberals who live in white suburban areas and demand "diversity"

Assyrian

desu

What genocide?

T. Ataturk

Wow no one has addressed the obvious problem: nationalism. By the 19th century the various European parts of the Ottoman Empire wanted to be their own countries and that idea spread to the rest of the empire by the 20th century. Nationalism (and ideas about independence) made governing really hard.
A Turkish emperor could rule over the various Muslim peoples because he could claim he was ruling in the name of Islam. Turks, Arabs, Bosnians, Albanians, Kurds, etc could work together within this framework.
But after nationalism spread, being overtly Muslim pissed off the Christian populations: Bulgarians, Armenians, Macedonians, Middle Eastern Christians.
The compromise was to be secular. The Tanzimat Reforms (1839-1879) tried to remake the Ottoman Empire into a secular empire, united through loyalty to the emperor.
(Considering that even the Austro-Hungarian empire failed in being a multinational empire and they were mostly Christian, the odds of the Ottomans pulling off a multinational, multi-religious empire was pretty close to zero.)
By 1879, it was clear secularism and "Ottomanism" wasn't going to work. So the emperor had to cancel the reforms and the empire was now caught in a bind. Remain a traditional Muslim empire and keep the remaining Muslim population loyal (which means a shitty army). Or try to be secular and modern (to get a better army), and lose the loyalty of the non-Turkish subjects. It's a no-win situation after nationalism shows up.
Ataturk's success in modernization shows that the only way was for the Turks to break off and be Turkey so that reforms could be done with a willing population.
The Arabs got screwed because they got cut up into many countries, but if they had become independent as one entity (Syria-Lebanon-Iraq-Jordan-Kuwait-maybe Palestine) things might have been different.

Their entire state was based on conquest,once they conquered enough the jannisariesno longer wanted to fight more wars and just sit around consuming the fruits of their victories.
This left the state weak and without funding wich eventually led to its demise.

Because Kurds needed to reclaim their homeland from you and the Armenians :^)

Which is why they also assassinated your Patriarch in Salma.

>The fact they controlled Egypt for centuries and never dug the Suez Canal is mindbogglingly stupid.

They attempted it at least once and mapped routes for it about three times. Having a short sea route that would allow them to project force to India would've fucked over history as we know it hard.

I mean, even without it, they basically could throw so much resources at the region that they almost made euro sea traffic unviewable a couple of times.

if that was a valid reason then France would be in the wrong too

like the Rome they destroyed they put too much chips in the army

Let me answer your question. I am an atheist from turkey(i will take the first plane to uk the day university ends. not that university is important just because i am too far in)

Ottomans were succesful at first because there were no strong country around that area they conquered and there were no science yet. When ottomans reached borders of strong countries like persia, russia, austria, they stopped. Also europeans started doing science.

You gotta realise Adolf Hitler is right. Inferior dna does exist. Not all nations on earth are same. Some are smart some are stupid. Turks and muslims are stupid fucking sand niggers who know nothing in life other than protecting and spreading their dna. They give no shits about science. They purposely and actively keep their new generations uneducated and ignorant. I dont even want to talk about turkish "education" system...

Summary: HEIL HITLER!

Dont compare ottomans and romans. Go take a look at italy. Full of awesome classical art everywhere. And then go to turkey. Fucking shithole.

Kek nigga how many times have you been to italy?

probably as much as he's been to Turkey

Stay mad Goldberg.

>no strong country around
Bullshit,HUngary was one of the main powers in eastern europe.

This FPBP
"Ottomans were a mistake." -Osman

>if I hate where I come from mindlessly enough maybe they'll accept me into their civilization

Can't grow apples on an orange tree son.

Boyfucking is a proud greco-roman tradition though it is good that it has gone away.

Arabs got exhausted and were replaced persions who got replaced by Turks who didn't have anyone to be replaced by. Indian Mughals could have replaced them but they were stuck in British slavery because of Turkish inaction.

Hitler had a Turkish muslim division. Self hating faggot.