The vision Michael Collins had for Ireland will never be reality

>the vision Michael Collins had for Ireland will never be reality

Hold me lads. Easily one of the greatest Irishmen ever to live. If anyone could make the bog worth thinking about, it'd have been him.

if he was so great he wouldn't have gotten himself shot. he should have recognized how indispensable he was.

He was a very humble man which is something that was both good and bad for him.

His other flaw was failing to recognise that internal struggle was something inevitable with a conflict this size.

He laid out plans for military strength, economic revitalisation and sustainability as well as a cultural rebirth but unfortunately didn't effectively relay this information to enough of the right people and thus they were stuck working with what they could find after his death.

He was a great man, simply no denying this. It's a pity what happened to him.

Sean Lemass himself stated that many of his well respected improvements to ireland's industrial scene came from plans Collins had created.

He is a great man in the sense that seemingly from him alone he managed to birth a nation which only a decade or two before never could have had a hope of existing, let alone surviving.

how would Ireland be different today if he had not died when he did?

The Gaelic identity of Ireland would probably be enshrined in law instead of being a wishful afterthought.

If Collins had survived, Ireland would be very different.

Essentially, Collins believed in truly reviving Ireland's culture, industry and economy by NOT being autistic about Britain.

Beat them, and move on. He realised at one point that his guerilla war was fucking them up and the reality was that victory was suddenly looking like an option.

He didn't want bitterness or resentment, he knew that Ireland needed economic ties with england to not be a very poor country.
He saw value in many parts of ireland which were very ineffectively used, particularly in agriculture.

The long and short of it is that an Ireland with Collins at the helm would have him using his very skilled statesmen to implement his excellent ideas as opposed to statesmen trying to get their head around his ideas and trying their best to find ways to maybe implement them, all while being very autistic about Britain.

Ireland's gaelic identity would also be hugely popular on the island and protected, as opposed to a very weakly held link to times long past.

You wouldn't have had the decades of stagnation led by a near luddite (De Valera).

I believe that N.I. Would not exist, but it's a debatable thing.

NI is a tricky one which boils down to whether or not Britain would have supported loyalist/protestant rebels.

Irelands a fucking meme country. Half the population born in Ireland over the past 100 years is diaspora. Only reason it's not a total shithole nowadays is because it abuses its status as a tax haven for international shekels.

It's hard to see, yes.
But, I don't believe the "Take her down from the mast" situation would have developed had Collins lived.

It's a ponderable.

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Want to know how shit Ireland is? There's 50'000 ILLEGAL Irish in the fucking US (which is shit tier among other developed countries) who live like Mexicans because Ireland is just that shit.

I rate it 6 bong

'meme country' what do you even mean by that?

It's a perfectly legitimate country which was fucked over by De Valera who's literal only redeeming quality is that he managed to justify Ireland's neutrality to Britain in a way that stopped them trying to drag us into shit again.

Ireland's existence is perfectly valid as was their rebellion. The literal whole point of this thread is that under Collins it would be probably a very nice place indeed but naturally retards like yourself have to come in here and tell us all why it shouldn't exist.

You arrive in here with your weak grasp on economics, geopolitics and history spamming /pol/ tier buzzwords without realy saying anything of value whatsoever.

You could make the same argument for a dozen countries by just swapping the same and can easily reduce any country to its faults, whether it's ireland, UK, USA or fucking denmark.

'meme country' for the love of fuck learn how to speak without using Veeky Forums terms you blithering mong

There's thousands of illegal Irish EVERYWHERE.


And you cucks are worried about the Mohammedans.

>England could have allied with Ireland and put aside 600 years of fighting

NI irritates me generally because the population refuse to accept their own history, except when it suits them. They wll fuck themselves over just to spite the irish, for example nationalists made ncredible gains in the last election so they are all calling for direct rule. It's bizarre, bitter and fucking nonsensical, I do believe it will cease to exist in our lifetime but it is all a mess.

I wouldn't really be able to tell, except for extreme cases they pass as someone from Boston

>There's thousands of illegal Irish EVERYWHERE.
Of course, they'd do anything to escape Ireland :^)

It has no more than a decade left to it, that's coming from someone from a nominally unionist/protestant NI background.

A combination of the intransigence of the current Unionist leaders and Brexit have left NI between a rock and a hard place.

Sinn Fein need do nothing but bide their time.

Why would that have happened? You don't ally with a rebellious province, that presents a legitimacy to renegades.

It was less a case of allying them, and more a case of

>alright chaps, collins absolutely ass-blasted us and we lost ireland
>oh shit, things are heating up in europe
>fuck, collins might want to fuck us here
>what's this? he wants to be friends?
>what a fucking relief mate

I know a woman whose husband is illegal Irish and he owns a construction company while her sons go to fucking Harvard (no joke, they're all Ivy League tier genius').

I seriously doubt that

What if all the Irish diaspora and descendants when back to Ireland. Would it be more or less fucked?

it'd become an american colony

More. There are more irish in america than in ireland. Ireland isn't ready for tat kind of population burst. We'd need another famine.

>40 million muh heritage Irish from Australia, US and Canada

Oh fuck, it's like Dublin, but throughout the entire country

This is preposterous, after having just formed a ramshackle semblance of a government you really expect me to suppose it would have been possible anyone thought their next course of action is to invade a nation that's 100 fold more powerful than they are? The same one that's next door, could stamp them flat, and so happens to be the one on whose good graces allowed their "freedom" in the first place?

It's so monumentally idiotic, your post is a mess.

I actually don't.

I spent time in Boston in my twenties and I swear to fuck... I could have been caught by cops with a smoking gun in my hand, standing over a corpse and got "away home to your bed lad, that guy must have attacked you". Being Irish was a licence to do as you pleased.

Credentials weren't questioned, the accent was enough... At every level.

Granted, it's twenty or more years ago. But...

>Ireland ever posing a threat to the UK

Stop playing Kaiserreich

Fun fact: Along the East Coast, 40% of all Cops are Irish or of Irish descent. It used to be 90% in 1900

No, you retard, that isn't at all what I implied.

I was saying that while many in Britain believd that Collins would side Ireland with Britain's enemies in the future that this simply was not the case. Collins cared more about Ireland's survival than he did for Britain's defeat, beyond getting them out of Ireland he didn't have many plans relating to them which weren't attempting to secure diplomatic and economic ties.

I'm not the guy suggesting an alliance, because that never would have happened, but my point is that Collins was always going to choose closer-ties with Britain after the war than any hostilities.

He recognised that ireland needed cultural and industrial revival as well as sustained peace in order to have any hope of surviving.
Not 'we beat england here so lets invade them' you flying fucking retard

>>Ireland ever posing a threat to the UK

Other than the occupation of six counties, Ireland has little interest in the UK.

It's just not that important.

I guess I'm meant to interpret "fuck, collins might want to fuck us here" in some different light, other than your implying it was anyone's belief that Ireland posed a direct threat (of course the working man who doesn't know any better will always suspect something). Those in the know of course were smart enough to recognize that the Irish were going to keep a clean nose in future as they sorted everything out.

by "fuck us" I just meant "he might make things easier for people who are actually capable of maybe fucking us".

I don't think Ireland was in any state to fight anyone.

Even though that being said, siding with anyone and bringing more conflict to Ireland would have ended Collins plans before he could have started them so naturally he wouldn't have.

Aiding a foe is just as good as any direct threat when they're that close, and you don't keep your tenuous grip on statehood by even hinting to your neighboring superpower that you pose just this sort of threat.