Which contemporary populations are closest to Proto-Indo-Europeans?

WE

Wrong, see

Ironically, what's left of the Celts (Irish, Scot, Briton/Welsh) and R haplotype Native Americans.

Unironically though, Yamnaya was a crazy ethnic clusterfuck.

>Spanish and Tuscans have no WHG blood

This chart is retarded

>R haplotype Native Americans.

These don't exist you stupid autistic fuck. They are Irish and Scottish mutts.
Non-European R clades don't exist among Native Americans.

>stormnigger thinks ANE wuz white

You're even more stupid than that guy.

Yamna did have around 40% of their DNA which was closely related to Georgians but they also had predominantly European HG DNA from the R1b and R1a carrying indigenous tribes of the steppe who mixed with the Georgian women.

In terms of overall genetic similarity Georgians wouldn't be closest to them as they are not descendants but cousins.

YOU ARE FUCKING WRONG

IF YOU HAD DONE MORE THAN TEN MINUTES OF READING ON THE SUBJECT OF THE SOURCE OF BASAL R AND THE RECENCY OF THE R1/R2 SPLIT YOU WOULD FUCKING KNOW BUT YOU DONT

>Non-European R clades don't exist among Native Americans.

LOOK AT THE FUCKING DISTRIBUTION CHART AND GOOGLE R1-M173

You retarded bro?
I didn't say anything "stormnigger". Just setting the record straight.

I repeat

>Non-European R clades don't exist among Native Americans.
>Non-European R clades don't exist among Native Americans.
>Non-European R clades don't exist among Native Americans.

There isn't a single one.

ANE is easily more than 20,000 years older than Yamnaya.

I'm preempting you here with Mal'ta Buret ofc.

>R1b and R1a carrying indigenous tribes of the steppe
R1b isn't indigenous to the steppe, it came there from West Asia.

Which haplogroup is most representative of PIEs?

Basque, Sardinians, Serbo-Croato-Bosnians, Swedes (the original ones)
Or that's what i got from those autism haplogroup maps

Nah not M269 anyway. It's very indigenous to the Baltic-Ukraine area and the local natives didn't have even a single drop of Arab admixture.

biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2017/03/02/112714.full.pdf

R1 haplo in native Americans is a result of ANE ancestry. It's not the same thing as R1a/R1b and it absolutely isn't European: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal'ta–Buret'_culture

>Research published in 2016 suggests that a Mal'ta like people were important genetic contributors to Native Americans, Europeans, Central and South Asians, and minor contribution to East Eurasians.[8] Lazaridis et al (2016) notes "a cline of ANE ancestry across the east–west extent of Eurasia."[8] Mal'ta had a type of R* y-dna that diverged before the hg R1 and R2 split and an unresolved clade of haplogroup U mtdna.[9] Between 14 and 38 percent of Native American ancestry may originate from gene flow from the Mal'ta Buret people, while the other geneflow in Native Americans appears to have an Eastern Eurasian origin.[1] Sequencing of another south-central Siberian (Afontova Gora-2) dating to approximately 17,000 years ago, revealed similar autosomal genetic signatures as Mal'ta boy-1, suggesting that the region was continuously occupied by humans throughout the Last Glacial Maximum.

>Arab admixture

Fucking retard. Shut up. You have no idea what you're talking about.

They didn't have Georgian or Iranian-Arabian admixture.
Yamna did have Georgian admixture though because they took women from them. Yamna was loaded with those hot Georgian mtDNA haplogroups.

R and Q are closely related which is more than enough for the ANE connection.

>Iranian-Arabian admixture

You're really rustling my jimmies with your ignorance.

ANE isn't fucking white or European. They were Mongoloids:

>Mongoloid features had been originally acknowledged in the skeletal remains of a child found at the site of Mal'ta. Alexeev (1998, 323) in his later publication was more cautious, stating that this area was "inhabited by a population of Mongoloid appearance".[4] Raghavan et al. (2014) and Fu et al. (2016) found that Mal'ta–Buret had brown eyes, dark hair and dark skin.

Yamna having admixture from them doesn't mean anything.

I don't give a fuck about Iranians and Arabs. Same shit.

R1b didn't come from them because it was already present in the European mesolithic and you're too inbred to get it.

>if I repeat a lie enough times it becomes true

There were TWO waves of settlement from Siberia to the Americas after the LGM you idiot.

Or did you not know that Q and R are both descended sub-clades of P1?

>Europeans settled the American continent so that means Non-European Q clades don't exist among native Americans.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1

Native Americans being R is just something the guys from StormFront came up with to prove that Irish potatoniggers are the real Americans.
It has no basis on reality. No one knows anything about these subclades, no paper has been written about them, nobody on online DNA projects has them. They exist on the obscure corners of the Internet only like Wikipedia which isn't edited by anyone without an agenda.

Your logic is shit and you're retarded. Kill yourself.

>butthurt because his "Aryan mustard race" had mongoloid admixture

HAHAHAHA

>They were Mongoloids:
t. retard

Mal'ta boy only potentially derives 17% of his ancestry from a basal East Asian clade.

He's right though, kill yourself retard or shut up and take the blow like a man.

>ANE
>They were Mongoloids

Ah I see you have refined your position, which if I am not mistaken originally was that "Mongoloid = Mongolian or Mongolian-looking".

What you fail to mention is that the Mal'ta boy is actually completely unrelated to modern East Asian populations, but rather more closely related to modern European and Native American populations.

>its a conspiracy!!!!!

t.brainlet

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles

nature.com/nature/journal/v505/n7481/full/nature12736.html/PMC384887/

cell.com/ajhg/abstract/S0002-9297(07)61293-2

>malta-buret
>mongoloid

Venus figurines m8t.

It's a meme not a conspiracy. Give me the ISOGG designated names of these Native American specific subclades.

Oh wait, ISOGG doesn't know anything about them.

isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html

>NATIVE AMERICANS WUZ EUROPEANS N SHIEEET
>IT'S NOT ME THAT HAS THEIR ADMIXTURE, IT'S THE OPPOSITE

>>NATIVE AMERICANS WUZ EUROPEANS N SHIEEET
t. buttblasted illiterate

The majority of ANE(83%) is clearly descended from the West Eurasian node of non Africans.

East Asians are descended from the East Eurasian node that gave rise to Australasians,Andaman Islanders and ancient subcontinental Indians.

>he thinks the oldest and singular Basal R signature wasn't found with artifacts suggesting a eastward migration of one of the only cultures to actually produce Venus figurines
>posts smug anime grills and adhoms

I think I've found a soft point in your Mongolian charioteers theory.

shut up you faggot

East Asians aren't the only Neo-Mongoloids. There is also Siberians, South East Asians and Proto-Mongoloids such as the Jomon/Ainu and Maori/Polynesians.

Is it just a coincidence that the Euros with the most Yamna admix look the most chinky? I don't think it is.

There is literally no way R could have originated in Europe though. It's not related to European haplogroups but Asian ones and even Papuan.

Well at least you have camels

Aside from Björk, the other two look pretty white to me. What does your pic mean?

>small and often slanty eyes, high cheekbones, etc are typical of northern Europe, region with the most Yamna ancestry
>big round eyes and fleshy looking face are typical of southern Europe, region with the least Yamna ancestry

really gets the gears going

>East Asians aren't the only Neo-Mongoloids. There is also Siberians, South East Asians and Proto-Mongoloids such as the Jomon/Ainu and Maori/Polynesians.
Siberians have ANE admixture,Polynesians and Island Southeast Asians have Australasian admixture.

The difference being the non East Asian admixture in the latter are descended from Eastern Eurasians while ANE for the most part is West Eurasian.

>Is it just a coincidence that the Euros with the most Yamna admix look the most chinky? I don't think it is.
Whatever purported basal East Asian admixture(no guarantee they were phenotypically Mongoloid) in Mal'ta boy would have been present in Western Hunter gatherers as well.

This basal East Asian admixture would be further diluted by the time that Yamna came into being(CHG).

>no way R could have originated in Europe though

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Y-chromosome_DNA_haplogroup#Haplogroup_R_.28M207.29

>Asian ones

which ones, there are lots and lots of them. Do you include India and Central Asia, Siberia?

I'm skeptical of pic related, but it seems to be well thought of.

It's related to all haplogroups inside K2 all of which being Asiatic and Oceanian with the exception of R.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_K2b_(Y-DNA)

>50,000 years old

Whew lad might as well say we're all Africans. Basal R is estimated to be at the youngest 20,000 years, at the oldest 34,000.

P1 is a better point of reference, given the apparently Southeast Asian origin.

Here's the Swedecuck olympic team if you think I'm just making stuff up. Some of them look pretty chinky to me. It's not just Finns that exhibit this kind of phenotype.

Yeah maybe but still it shows how insane the idea of it coming from fucking Europe is.
Mal'ta buret might have had European haplogroups in addition to local R though.

>look pretty chinky to me

again with this shit, you never learn.

>Some of them look pretty chinky to me.
Learn to distinguish between phenotypes and genotypes.

It doesn't matter whether modern day Swedes they exhibit a Mongoloid phenotype,they lack substantial Eastern non African(ENA) admixture.

The Ainu were thought as a long lost "White" population when they partially descended from a basal East Asian population(Jomon).

I want to bork the Bork

graph I posted seems to suggest a Caucasian (geographically) origin of basal R.

Without a doubt though Mal'ta Buret culture had a significant Q presence, even though there only complete sample was basal R so there's no direct evidence for this claim. I'm confidant in the assertion of temporal cohabitation based on the recency effect and other times things like this happened (Yamnaya), but will refrain from drawing conclusions as regards the quality of their interactions.

*their

Do I need to post even more extreme examples for you to start believing me? Pic related, most famous Danish actor.

Literally looks Central Asian here.

Caucasus sounds pretty nutty. It's not some magical place where humans dispersed from every few thousand years.

Most people seem to think basal R comes from India. I don't know about that. There's other possibilities.

>chinky

autism

>Most people seem to think basal R comes from India.
Central Asia/Northern India isn't beyond the realm of possibility.

If R2 and early Q clades are any indication some of the ANE in that region would predate the Indo European expansion.

I'm more interested how P spread from Island Southeast Asia(or the P1 in Aetas is the result of isolation and continental P went extinct).

>nordcuck in denial

You have mongoloid admixture, son. You're not "pure Aryans" or anything. Sorry to crush your dreams.

The Swedish Olympic team still has swedes in it? How qauint and racist.

>basal R comes from India

I doubt it just based on population dispersion through time.

>There's other possibilities

Certainly. I actually have considered India as the origin place of basal P.

>indication some of the ANE in that region would predate the Indo European expansion

Yamnaya weren't Indo-European, but their descendants were. So far the subject matter of this thread hasn't even come close to the Bronze age, you're making 40,000 year jumps in your reasoning.

>more interested how P spread from Island Southeast Asia

daily reminder that present distribution cannot accurately represent maximal past or original distributions due to the effect of exponential information loss over time.

now lets give the ladies some attention.

"""Nords""" are I-group you fathead, it's Western Europe that has the R1b.

I don't know why you're strawmanning so hard when faced with the fact that you didn't know an asserted origin point for basal R wow.

>So far the subject matter of this thread hasn't even come close to the Bronze age, you're making 40,000 year jumps in your reasoning.
Fair enough,it would be interesting whether ancient DNA from East Asia could prove whether Mal'ta and WHG are admixed with a basal clade of East Asians(using Kostenski 14 as a unadmixed West Eurasian).

>daily reminder that present distribution cannot accurately represent maximal past or original distributions due to the effect of exponential information loss over time.
Hence the my inclusion of "the result of isolation and continental P went extinct".

This reminds of me that everyone thought K came from Southeast Asia/Australasia until information came out that West Eurasian Ust'Ishim/Oase 1 carried pre NO K2a*.

phylotree.org/tree/X.htm

X2g has a sibling subclade called X2l found in a Qashqai so it seems that it came from Central Asia

But X2a still has the closest relative as X2j which is Egyptian. X2a still probably came from Central Asia rather than some transatlantic trip from North Africa.

Look at:

Nords are the ones with the most Yamna admix. Yamna in pic related plot quite close to Siberians. I don't know else what to say or post to convince you at this point. I think you're just being in denial of your Asian roots.

>haplogroup the only genetic marker
>ignoring the significant existence of the N haplogroup anyway, even though N is proto mongoloid
>doesn't understand that simply not having that haplotype doesn't disqualify you from having genes from people who did have it
the fuck you on

They weren't West Eurasian but symmetric with East Asians and WHG.

>They weren't West Eurasian but symmetric with East Asians and WHG.
Not according to the most recent study. See

academic.oup.com/mbe/article/34/4/889/2838774/A-Working-Model-of-the-Deep-Relationships-of

...

>dank
pale ale

>Yamna in pic related plot quite close to Siberians.

They would, given the fact that their descendants moved eastward into Siberia.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sintashta_culture
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture

>being in denial of your Asian roots

this line immediately outs you r/masculinity user.

*r/asianmasculinity

that's like the opposite of relevant information to the discussion, and more like deliberate obfuscation of the subject.

Ust Ishim is very, very old. He was still symmetrical with East Asians and WHG despite being modeled as within the root of West.
Kostenki despite being just a few thousand years younger has a more pronounced relationship to WHG.

>Siberia UP
>Sintashta or Andronovo

No. Those people are literally Inuits. They don't have anything to do with Indo-Europeans. Yamna plot close to them because of their ANE admixture that they acquired earlier.

It's the most relevant information there can be.

What is the discussion anyway?
It's just two Central Asian haplogroups in America.
Whats so special about that? It's been known a long time that Native Americans don't have exclusively East Asian ancestry.

>ANE admixture that they acquired earlier.

But wouldn't they always have had it as it's linked to their R1 haplogroup?

>Ust Ishim is very, very old. He was still symmetrical with East Asians and WHG despite being modeled as within the root of West.
True,it would be interesting to see what the upcoming Tianyuan paper has to say.

My point was K wasn't limited to Southeast Asia(you have Oase 1 as well).

>Those people are literally Inuits.
>Sintashta or Andronovo
>They don't have anything to do with Indo-Europeans
>Part of a series on
>Indo-Europeans

perfectly perfidious, you reveal yourself so openly. Inuits literally invented the chariot, you heard it here first guys.

>It's been known a long time that Native Americans don't have exclusively East Asian ancestry.

One user seems keen on denying that for some reason.

>most relevant information there can be

Please explain why.

>Closest to Neolithic Anatolians/Balkanians:
>Sardinians

>Sardinian I2a1 - 39%
>South-Slavic I2a1 - 60%

>Closest to yamnaya:

The most frequent genes amongst the Yamna are R1a and R1b....though I2a1 neolithic were found as well.

Lithuanians are the closest to the Yamna people, and speak the most archaic Indo-European language.

Because the debate about X2 is Solutrean vs Siberian so it matters where their closest relatives are.
Egypt is kind of within the realm of Solutrean but Qashqai isn't, yet both X2g and X2a are found in the same tribes so two distinct origins are highly unlikely.

Lrn2reading comprehension. I'm saying the "Siberia UP" sample there doesn't have anything to do with the region Sintashta or Andronovo was located, which was in South Siberia.

They also look chinky. Very interesting, right.

>speak the most archaic Indo-European language
>Lithuanians are the closest to the Yamna people

user you're mostly right but listen the Yamnaya weren't strictly Indo-European, but their descendants were. Guess why.

>chinky

it's autism awareness month guys

Quantify and further qualify this term. What unit of measurement do you use to define an organisms "chinkyness"?

Looking like the right side.

They are both ugly

He' right though

>Looking like

Quantify your terms pseudo-scientist.

>They also look chinky. Very interesting, right.

Of course. That's because the Indo-Europeans are mutated Asians (Mongol-Turks).

R (IE) -> P (Mongol-Turkic) -> K2B (Papa New Guinea) -> K2 (Australian Abos)

>P (Mongol-Turkic)
>origin Southeast Asia

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Will the horse peoples ever recover?

>Admixture

It's not how it work
Yamanya were R1b while Nord are I1

THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME BLOOD 't Indo-Europeans

>Yamanya were R1b while Nord are I1

those are just parental lines, they could easily share mitochondrial DNA.

*paternal