Persia Thread

What are you talking about? We know plenty about the Arsacid and Sassanid dynasties/empires, the Achaemenids and Median dynasties we don't know as much as on.

Seleucids were literally garbage tier.

Cyrus is consider the father of Persians and Iranians to a small extent but Ardashir and Darius as well as Khosrau I and Shapur (both the first and the second) are also as famous and well regarded as him.

>We know plenty about the Arsacid and Sassanid dynasties/empires, the Achaemenids and Median dynasties we don't know as much as on.
Compared to Greek and Rome? No.

Greeks>>>>Persians

Zoroastrianism is a shit tier bastardisation of Vedic religion.

There you go.

REEEEEE FUCKING PERSIANS ARE THE REASON ROME COULD NEVER EXPAND INTO MESOPOTAMIA. FUCK YOU.

>Who was the best Persian ruler?
Khosrau I. He reformed Persia. He crushed the nobility, he restored and strengthened royal power, and created a loyal army of middle class warriors. He made tax reforms that could fund a much better army. With this in place, the Greco-Romans could not compete.

>Which empire out of the Achaemenid, Parthian and Sassanid ones was the most important?
Achaemenid because no empire has ruled over that much of humanity before or after them.

The most developed was the Sassanids though. The state was much more well-functioning under Khosrau, and Zoroastrianism became a standardized religion with clout.

The Parthian empire was not Persian, but it was Iranian. Parthia sucked. It was a feudal mess of competing interests, not much better than the Seleucids. They had effectively no control of their socalled empire. The Romans steamrolled them left and right.

>Why was Persia perpetually warring with the Greeks and Romans?
Achaemenid empire did not perpetually have wars against the Greeks. Sure the Persians had raids in mainland Greece which the Greeks like to call "wars". The Greeks were actually employed in the empire as mercenaries in large numbers. Also as masters in various crafts. The Greeks worked more for the Persians than they fought against them IMHO.

Parthians and Sassanians had perpetual war. Mostly due to there not being any natural border between the two world empires. Armenia, the Caucasus and Mesopotamia were split in two by the two powers. There were no clear dividing line.

Rome never wanted to. Augustus believed that Armenia was a natural border to Rome's eastern expanse. Roman honour demanded conquest, but at heart it was a Mediterranean empire and it knew it. Secretly, Romans were happy they had a civilised people to their eastern border because they don't go full retard every year like barbarian snowniggers to the north.

Only Crassus went full sperg mode and tried to invade like a dumbass.

When did I compare them to the Greeks and Romans? What's with the strawman?

Wrong on both cases.

There were good Persian kings besides Cyrus, but Xerxes wasn't one of them.

Xerxes was literally a strong ruler, outside of his failed Greek invasion he was able to routinely put down revolts and uprisings, and even welcomed a certain exiled Athenian noble into his court despite their enmity during the Great War.

>The Parthian empire was not Persian, but it was Iranian.
This statement is literally meaningless.

Persian had a different meaning in the Achaemenid period, to the Arascid period, to the Sassanid, to the Arab, to the Mongol, to the Turk, to the Safavid, to now.

Only WE WUZ Iranians think there is.

There's definitely no continuity between modern day Persians and Achaemenids/Sassanids besides the landmass occupied.

>There's definitely no continuity between modern day Persians and Achaemenids/Sassanids besides the landmass occupied.
You're a super moron but I'll just give (You) the obligatory (You) here.

Oh, and language, but as someone who studied Avestan and Pahlavi back in university, even that link is tenuous.

Did the Persians ever actually do anything besides rule and conquer? Like, what did they actually contribute to the world besides owning vast amounts of land?

Definitely low tier bait.

Please tell what continuity there is between the Achaemenids and Sassanids besides being born in Fars/Anshan and ruling over the same landmass?

It sure as hell wasn't religion - there's a stark contrast between Zoroastrianism in the two periods.

The empire is Persian if the ruling dynasty are from the province of Pars/Fars/Persis/Persia.

The Parthians were from the province of Parthia and spoke an North-western Iranian language like Medes did in Achaemenid times, or the Kurds do today.

I said I will only give you (You)s, user.

>The empire is Persian if the ruling dynasty are from the province of Pars/Fars/Persis/Persia.
Not disputed. See But they varied massively in culture, language, and religion. Modern day Italy is not the successor of Rome just as modern day Iran is not the successor to either of those empires.

There is a strong link in the religion and the language. The Sassanid dynasty were probably priests of Anahid to begin with before becoming warlords. The Sassanids also identified with the earlier Persians, and wanted to recreate their past glory.

OK so you can't.

كس كش برو خودت را آموزش بكن

Except for the fact Iron Age Iranians have not dramatically changed genetically between the Parthian/Sassanid era and modern times. Modern Persian also being an extension from Middle Persian aka Pahlavi, or are you going to be autistic enough to claim English people aren't English because both Middle and New/Modern English isn't the same as Old English?

Even with all the Arab and then Mongol and then Turkic rape babies and intermarriage?

>Fars
That's Pars actually.
*Anshan
That's a town in Pars. So we can recap:

>modern Persian is continuous of middle Persian
>Persians still live in the same area today as they did thousands of years ago
>Same oral traditions dating back from before the Arscaid period persist in Iranian towns and villages among poets and folksingers
>Not genetically divergent signifigantly from their original ancestors
>"They aren't continous despite continuing to keep their own language, culture, customs, and ethnic identity alive despite various invasions, fall of different empires and nations, and other catastrophic events".

Yeah sure thing.

Neither the Arabs nor the Turks had any major impact on Iranian population densities in terms of "mixing". In fact most Turks today in the Middle East have more genetically in common with Anatolians, Indo-Europeans, and Semitic people then they do with any of their kin in Central Asia and Eurasia.

Mongols played a much larger role with massacres then interbreeding.

...

(You) get a 1/10 at best.

"I was merely pretending to be retarded!"

The modern concept of architecture and societal hierarchy both derive from Achaemenid Persia, because of its influence on Hellenistic culture.

>That's Pars actually.
Not this shit again.

I swear only Iranians have this inferiority complex with Arab loanwords.

>loanwords
Prouncing the name of the province because the Arab language does not have a soft counter for P sounding consonants does not make it a "loanword". Or is Fepsi a loanword because Arabs can't say Pepsi either?

Also not Iranian. Also really bad projecting there, user.

The Silk Road.

The Royal Road.
Darius' Suez Canal.
Xerxes land bridge connecting Asia with Europe.
Sassanids being on par with the Romans/Byzantines technologically (there's a still active dam in Iran from the Sassanid era working to this day).
Also trousers iirc were invented by Iranian/Iranic people.

So I should only call London Londinios/Londinium? And France Gaul?

It's been known as Fars for over a millennium.
>It's Pars actually.
You're the only one who felt like unironically being a contrarian.

Not in Iran it hasn't. Like I said earlier, stop reaching with those dumb projections.

>I need a redpill on the origin of Zoroastrianism

>first monotheistic religion
>extolls truth, good thoughts, good words, good deeds
>doesn't shy from warfare but says it is necessary and honorable to defend ones nation
>strongly environmentalist
>fire is holy (quite logical, it literally gives us life; what is the sun)
>fire temples are max /comfy/
>pray five times a day (islam stole this)
>spring equinox festival similar to dia de los muertos where guardian angels would descend to be with the people they're protecting (other religions stole this)
>recommends kindness, gentleness, and charity
>recommends good actions rather than just praying and expecting shit to happen
>no seriously, fire temples are comfy as fuark
>pretty tolerant to other religions, let the christians coexist
>emphasis on hygiene without being fucktarded about it

How DID Cyrus manage to create such a powerful empire, anyway? Before him, Persis was pretty much some literally who constituency of the Medes.

Why are Iranian people so damn autistic?

>Friends with an Iranian guy
>Keeps going on about how Persia is the greatest empire of all time
>Goes on about Cyrus the Great and how tolerant he was
>Gets mad when people call him Arab even though he looks like one
>is a Zoroastrian in 2017
>drinks alcohol simply for the fact that muslims dont
>talks about his hatred for Arabs 24/7
>sucks in cheeks in every picture for a "jawline"
>refers to himself as Persian not Iranian
>constantly gets his eyebrows done to not allow his Arab unibrow to grow

These people are insane

Reminder arabs literally said Persia gave them what Greece gave the Romans.

>Arab loanwords.

>be Persian
>name your land as you like
>arabs come, butcher your language because they can't pronounce a "p" sound
>modern amerishit: hurrr it's fars lol because uh my history book in high school said so

kys

Persia
Pars Province
???
Or are you going to argue that it's actually "Fersia" and "Farthians"?

Gee, why would he hate a people who murdered and raped his ancestors? I wonder.

>eyebrow grooming is a bad thing

Abdullah, go back to fucking your camel.

Nader Shah was based

>having a giant empire and losing to sandniggers in a desert
>crying about something that happened 1000 years ago
I hate all shitskins but Iranians are worse. KYS Ali kyomeni

I've never heard an Iranian call it Pars, nor have I ever heard anybody call the language Parsi instead of Farsi

Elam >>> Media >>>> Persia

Don't forget the obscene amount of cologne, obsession with Versace, and white BMWs.

Persian diaspora is by far the worst diaspora I've ever seen

t. Iranian diaspora

All the tour guides in Shiraz must be lying then. I'm sure its a grand conspiracy only you uncovered.

>call the language Parsi
They call it Persian, no one said anything about it being called Parsi.

t. false-flagger.

The historical name is Pars yes. But in the vernacular everybody calls it Fars.

>They call it Persian
Do you not realise that Persian is an English word? The language is called "Farsi" by it's native speakers, even tho officially it's called "Parsi" by the academy.

Only LARPers in the diaspora use the pre-Islamic prononciations of the p-->f sounds.

Everyone refers to it as Pars in Iran. Everyone I've encountered either native or diaspora calls it Persian, only people unfamiliar with the people and country call it Farsi.

Keep trying to poison the well though.

>failed Greek invasion
It wasn't just a failed Greek invasion. He lost Macedonia and Thrace that his father acquired, as was as Greek coastal cities in Asia minor. The Delian league BTFO him in Asia minor. All signs of Achaemenid activity cease Taxilla after Darius, infering that permanently lost the Indus satrapy.
>the modern concept of architecture and social hierarchy both derive from Achaemenid Perisa

1. Describe and explain the architecture part, which it seems that the Achaemenid didn't revolutionize it compare to their predecessors and it's influence on Greek architecture seems pretty weak.

2. The Achaemenid didn't invent social hierarchy. In-fact, we barely know anything about their social hierarchy--the whole trivum of peasants cultivators, class-warriors, and priests while being subordinate to a King, are from what we gather the Sassanid era. The Greeks in their writings about the Achaemenids don't mention a warrior-dedicated or peasant classes (they do describe that there's peasant feudal classes around Asia, but don't mention any in Persia), nor does Persian inscriptions hint at such. They do, however, refer to noblemen. Regardless, the whole 'peasant, warrior, and priest' hierarchy is an inherit feature of most Indo-European societies, and the Mesopotamian and Egyptian cultures have such institutions that pre-date the Achaemenids and the Indo-Europeans by a long-shot.

I dunno why Persia isn't usually mentioned up there with the fiercest enemies of Rome. Everyone knows about Spartacus,
Gaul, Carthage, the Goths/Visigoths and the Vandals, but the Sassanids and Parthians were constantly fighting the Romans and fucking up their trade routs.

>this pasta again

Isn't this the 4th time you've posted this shit?

I'm hoping you're just pretending to be retarded

استان فارس

Do sand runes look like bukkake to anyone else? Whenever I see Arabic calligraphy, for example, it looks like someone blew a load of jizz all over the page.

No, but I think Freud would like you a lot.

>The Academy of Persian Language and Literature has declared that the name Persian is more appropriate, as it has the longer tradition in western languages and better expresses the role of the language as a mark of cultural and national continuity.[32] Some Persian language scholars such as Ehsan Yarshater, editor of Encyclopædia Iranica, and University of Arizona professor Kamran Talattof, have also rejected the usage of "Farsi" in their articles
It tells me you are retarded at the very least.

You are a dumb motherfucker. When have I ever referred to English?

In the Persian language, the language is called "Man Farsi harf mizanam"

Unless of course you're a dumb diaspora kid from LA who can't even speak the language of the people that you LARP.

>all Iranian people are Persian

I love this meme

>all this goal post moving
>all this trying to poison the well with non-sequitur and nonsense
Neato.

Well, you have the Medes, Scythians, and some Arabic intermixture as well. But overall yes. Iran was just the internal section of the Persian empire at one time. Moreover you could argue Azarbaijan, Afghanistan, and Iraq people are partially or wholely Persian by ethnicity.

Every peoples has some intermixture from their neighbors. Miscegenation is to blame, eternally.

>freud

a hack.

Outside of some Arabs from the Arabian Penninsular in the mid-3rd century by Shapur, being relocated forcibly in Khuzestan region (in modern times vernacular), there's little intermixing on that specific front. Though I've heard a large number of Iraqi "Arabs" are genetically closer to their Iranian neighbors then other Arab speaking peoples in the Levant or Near East.

As for the Medes, we know practically nothing about them. Considering Cyrus the Great was the last Median ruler's maternal grandson, I don't think there was any ethnic divide between Medes and Persians.

>Iran was just the internal section of the Persian empire at one time. Moreover you could argue Azarbaijan, Afghanistan, and Iraq people are partially or wholely Persian by ethnicity.

This is what P*ersians actually believe

Afghanistan, Iran, and Tajikistan are more accurately form the Persiate basis of Iranian lands in particular. Which is why its called the Greater Iran.
>P*ersians
Hello faggot.

Were the Persian empires connected by anything, like lineage, or were they largely independent from each other outside of geography?

Zoroastrianism is the Original Aryan Religion

Every IE must convert to the Good Religion

So this thread is only about pre-islamic iran?

Can you explain this graph to me? I dont really get it

Are you actually retarded?

He probably was a pretty good general, although we have absolutely no way to prove that. The story about putting his camels in the front line while fighting the Lydians is telling though

He did easily defeat the Egyptian Empire, defeat and conqueror the Lydian Empire, and the Neo-Babylonian Empire in a relatively short amount of time did the strong rulers in each of those states.

He didn't defeat Egypt that was Cambyses

What are some good books on the Parthian and Sassanian Empires?

I meant he was able to rout their forces aiding the Medians and Neo Babylonian Empire. Yes, the actual conquest was achieved by Cambyses, I'm aware of that.

Post-Islamic Iran was not Persian

Parthia was not a Persian empire

It retained Persianate culture, which is why it never became another Arab state

Parni are like the British Celtics to the Persian's Gauls

>t. butthurt "Azerbaijani" turkroach

Cyrus best ruler

Persian philosophizing was probably the best method. Also encouraged group cohesion.

Zoroastrian effort posting is the official board culture of Veeky Forums

How important is Persia compared to the likes of Egypt, Greece, Mesopotamia, Rome and China?

>numerous mentions of Cyrus
>literally a jewish messiah

I know Veeky Forums tries to be the anti-/pol/ but why pick the pleb-tier choice

>I know Veeky Forums tries to be the anti-/pol/
No, it doesn't. Barely anyone here cares about /pol/. You clearly do, though, so fuck off back there.

Pretty important. Dunno how you would directly quantify it though. Certainly in the East you have it being the language of academia, poetry, Persians/Iranians being very important to the development of Islam as well as Zoroastrianism's influence on what would become Judaism and the rest of modern Abrahamic faiths tenants and beliefs. Other things like liberation of the Jews at Babylon, Darius' engineering feat of the Persian Suez Canal, the basis of the postage system and courier messengers come from Persia, etc...

>I know Veeky Forums tries to be the anti-/pol/
>t. /pol/

Rumi was white.

224 - Ardashir topples the Parthian empire

pretty accurate desu

t. Iranian

>All the tour guides in Shiraz must be lying then. I'm sure its a grand conspiracy only you uncovered.
The fact that it used to be pronounced with a /p/ is a historical curiosity, nothing more.

Here's the Farsi Wikipedia page on it.
fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/استان_فارس

This Iranian author only uses the historical term under the etymology section. Every map produced in Iran of Iran says Fars. And the vast majority of Iranians who don't have an axe to grind say Fars(i), just as they greet with salaam instead of durood.

Grow the fuck up, armchair shah.

Persians were Aryans mixed with Elamites.

You can see their genetic legacy in the area that was Persia to the south west of the Caspian.

The Persian language is related to the peoples east of Iran. Persians one of the last steppe peoples to settle in the Middle East, the Turkic peoples being the last major group.