Why is China allowed to keep non-Chinese territory...

Russia multi-ethnic as fuck, what are you talking about?

They sure are thanking the Russkies for removing the useless bit of Mongolia: Outer Mongolia.

I wonder if WWI did not happen, how many lands they would continue to lose to Western powers?

Yes but I was referring to Russia as a state: it is "federal republic" now but like China, an imperial entity.

Even after the demise of the Empire and the Soviet, Russia right now doesn't consist solely of Russians, but also huge populations of Turkics,Mongols, other Central Asians, and Caucasians.

Mongolians and Manchu were the majority in their homelands in the time of the Qing. Only when the Han started sending settlers did they ever become minorities. Uyghurs are still the largest ethnicity in their land. Tibet is still 90% Tibetan. Get educated before shitposting.

>It's called China
Consider suicide

You are an idiot if you think that Uyghurs ever considered themselves Han and never had a national identity.

Were the Chinese justified in destroying virtually all of Tibet's cultural heritage?

Not much:

In fact if you studied the late 19th Century and the 1900s, WWI could've started as much in China as it did in the Balkans. The great fear of the colonial powers was the collapse of China: since it wouldve triggered a scramble of China amongst the Colonial Powers and probably escalate into a war between them. In fact a close scare happened when Kaiser Wilhelm II went REEE EMPIRE and seized the city of Qingdao and its province, whereby Russia and Britain reacted badly. In addition America and Russia kept checking Japanese influence in China while Brits saw Japan as a good buffer for Russian ambitions in China.

This is why the western powers propped the Qing Emperors up to keep China weak yet united enough to prevent that from happening. They also supported the Republic when it was founded. When China finally collapsed, it luckily did so when WWI was fully under way.

Were the Japs justified ?

that's not the point, almost everyone lives better than in feudal times. the uyghurs are a caucasoid turkic people, though many have mongoloid admixture, as with most central Asian countries. they are Muslims and the Chinese don't allow them to practice Islam and force them to learn Chinese in schools. As far as Tibet goes, I'm not sure how much the Chinese interfere with their religious and cultural customs, but if it's bad enough for the Dalai Lama to live in exile and monks to immolate themselves in the streets, I think the Chinese are doing something wrong and should gtfo. Chinese weapons end up in Afghanistan regularly, despite their tiny shared border, and it's probably pissed off jihadist uyghars bribing some army official to acquire the weapons and smuggle them to the Taliban, which is quite a feat, considering northern Afghanistan is far more cooperative with NATO forces, the northern alliance of poppy growers and what not. They fought with the US as we went in after 9/11. probably because the Taliban wouldn't let them grow opium, but still, China should just stay in their "middle kingdom"

Manchuria is a meme made up by the japanese to steal land from China. your map is highly innacurate

>Manchuria is a meme
>The conquerors of the Ming Dynasty and the ethnicity known as the "Manchus" are made up by the Japanese
Tell us where the mercury touched you

Yeah it's called China. In Chinese, it's called "Zhongguo." Middle/Central/Inner State. The name of the old Empire. Not exactly ethnocentric.

>You are an idiot if you think that Uyghurs ever considered themselves Han and never had a national identity.
Lol, before the Qing Period, the Uyghurs were just a bunch of Turkic rulers sitting on city states lining along the Silk Route who pledged allegiance to either some Central Asian Khan or the Emperor of China.

Also
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Turkestan
>East Turkestan (Uyghur: شەرقىي تۈركىستان, Шәpқий Tүpкиcтaн, Shərqiy Türkistan) also known as Eastern Turkistan, Chinese Turkestan, Uyghurstan, Uyghuristan is a political term with multiple meanings depending on context and usage. Historically, the term was invented by Russian Turkologists like Nikita Bichurin in the 19th century to replace the term Chinese Turkestan, which referred to the Tarim Basin in the southwestern part of Xinjiang province of the Qing dynasty. The medieval Persian toponym "Turkestan" and its derivatives were not used by the local population of the greater region, and China had its own name for an overlapping area since the Han Dynasty as Xiyu, with the parts controlled by China termed Xinjiang from the 18th century onward. The historical Uyghur name for the Tarim Basin is Altishahr, which means "six cities" in Uyghur.
The Great Game, motherfucker. By shilling the tarim basin and the surrounding region as "100% TURKIC NATION" the Russians justified it's separation from China and its joining with their other Turkic brothers. Most of whom- incidentally- were part of the Russian Empire kek.

>the Chinese don't allow them to practice Islam
Tons of Uyghurs are falling for the wahhabi meme, no sane country will let that poison spread through its muslim population

>allowed

What the fuck are you on about? This isn't some computer game.

>Manchuria (simplified Chinese: 满洲; traditional Chinese: 滿洲; pinyin: Mǎnzhōu) is a modern name, first created by the Japanese,[2][3] given to a large geographic region in Northeast Asia. Depending on the context, Manchuria can either refer to a region that falls entirely within the People's Republic of China,[4][5][6] or a larger region divided between China and Russia.
>first created by the Japanese,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchuria
kindly btfo, loser

>Also it's called China, not "Hanland" or some ethnocentric shit.
This. A multiethnic China isn't something the PRC came up with but a late Qing attempt at fostering nationalism.

>In Chinese, it's called "Zhongguo."
Yes, that is the real name, not China. Which means "Middle Kingdom" of Han.
>Bef
It was the Dzungar Khanate which was composed of united Uyghurstan. Uyghurs are Turks, so "Turkic rulers" means nothing because the Uyghurs are Turkics and were independent.
>Th-
Uyghurs were never part of Zhongguo until the Qing dynasty. It's like saying that Britain is a meme made up by Roman Empire. You literally could not sound more uneducated and retarded.

>Manchuria is word hurrr
The Jurchen and other Tungusic people were always distinct from China you moron. The modern-name does not matter, because it's the ethnicity and people we are talking about.

>The Manchu(Manchu: ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠ); are an ethnic minority in China and the people from whom Manchuria derives its name.
>The people from whom Manchuria derives its name.
Chink user btfo again

>Which means "Middle Kingdom" of Han.
t. retard.

Zhongguo was a Zhou term for lands directly under the control of Zhou monarchs while it later acquired the meaning of lands nominally under the control of Zhou vassals i.e. Northern China.

The Qing were the first to call themselves "Chinese" and by that time the meaning of Zhongguo expanded towards the entirety of the lands under the control of the ruling dynasty.

>The modern-name does not matter, because it's the ethnicity and people we are talking about.
The Manchus conquest of the Ming was radically different from the British conquest of India.

The Manchus conduced themselves as Emperors of China and simply didn't have an idea that "Manchuria" existed as a wholly as a separate entity from the Qing.

>Which means "Middle Kingdom" of Han
Han didn't have anything to do with it considering the center of the Empire was - surprise, surprise- the Emperor.

>It was the Dzungar Khanate which was composed of united Uyghurstan.
The Dzungars and Uyghurs were two different fucking things you unmitigated moron. The Dzungars were Mongols, the Uyghurs a bunch of Turkics and Iranics. Not all Uyghurs went over to support the Dzungar Khan, some supported China, some remained neutral. They weren't following a single tune considering they're six separate city states.
>Uyghurs were never part of Zhongguo until the Qing dynasty.
Well someone shouldve never sided with the Dzungar Khanate.

Why are Turks allowed to have non Turkish lands?

Why are Russians allowed to have non Russian land?

loseranon, read my post:
>Manchuria is a meme made up by the japanese to steal land from China. your map is highly innacurate

you got all worked up because I said what I said and you can't read. It's true and I proved it. Now fuck off, please, I'm not interested in your (you)s nor in whatever it is you want to argue about. give them to somebody else.

k?

>he Jurchen and other Tungusic people were always distinct from China you moron.
...until they invaded Northern China and created the Jin dynasty, and subsequently walked around as if they were Chinese in funny clothing.

In any case, we can't talk about a "Manchurian People" anymore considering the Qing Dynasty effectively assimilated the Manchus into the Chinese identity. There's even only 13 or 15 people left with fluency in the Jurchen/Manchu language.

Hell, when Japan established Manchukuo, they made a big show about how Non-Chinese it was but the primary language of the puppet Empire was fuckin Mandarin lyl.

>Uyghurs were never part of Zhongguo until the Qing dynasty

China established hegemony in the region during the Han and Tang respectively. Fact of the matter is, the concept of "Zhongguo" is endlessly expansionist. It grew from a tiny valley along the Yellow River to all of China proper to its modern Qing-influenced borders by incorporating protectorates/neighboring regions and culturally enriching them.

What China is doing now with Tibet and Xinjiang is nothing more than what China has always been doing with its border regions. Trying to make China bigger. Trying to make more Han, as if this grand LARP that all Han descended from Yandi and Huangdi is even close to believable these days.

>that identity literally only exists because the original natives were wiped out about a hundred years prior and replaced with turks that then developed national identity of their own

...

People have to understand modern concepts of nationality and ethnicity didn't exist in pre modern China.

>Fact of the matter is, the concept of "Zhongguo" is endlessly expansionist.
For the vast majority of history "Zhongguo" corresponds with the territories held by the northern Chinese Zhou cultured polities.

To put it in perspective the historical usage of Han was also limited to this geopolitical Zhongguo(so southern Chinese were essentially non-Han until the Ming).

>Trying to make more Han, as if this grand LARP that all Han descended from Yandi and Huangdi is even close to believable these days.
Late Qing education favored a narrative where all Chinese(including non-Han) are descendants of the legendary sage kings(as opposed to historical usages where the sage kings were the grand progenitors of distinguished lineages that were still separate from the local populace e.g. Tuoba Xianbei,Khitans etc.)

ROC took this a step further and now we have Yue speakers LARPing as the purest Han Chinese.

Just because nation-states didn't exist doesn't mean people didn't (sometimes forcibly, sometimes willingly) enrich other people with their supposed high languages. It's as old as time. Am I to tell you that Latinization didn't happen because it wasn't the 1800's yet? Of course Zhongguo expanded. There's 1.340 billion han in the world, and they certainly didn't come about by fucking alone.

>immolate themselves in the streets
Some meditative practice can bring about grief with the world and thoughts of suicide especially if your society is materialistic and industrialist. Immolating yourself earns you karma points especially if it is used to further a cause.

>Of course Zhongguo expanded.
You don't understand what I'm saying.

The historical usage of Zhongguo is the result of the Zhou feudal order with where a Zhou elite ruled over a native populace.

"Zhongguo" was limited to northern China and lands incoporate after the Qin conquest weren't considered part of Zhongguo until much later(where Zhongguo became synonymous to the ruling dynasty).

>Just because nation-states didn't exist doesn't mean people didn't (sometimes forcibly, sometimes willingly) enrich other people with their supposed high languages.
No one is questioning the historical expansion of Shang/Zhou period Sinitic and the assimilation of para Sinitic,Hmong Mien,Tai Kadai,Tibeto Burman etc. speakers.

What I question is trying to assign concepts such as "Chinese" or "Han ethnicity" when they didn't function that way,

>Why is China allowed to keep non-Chinese territory?
Who's going to fucking stop them?

Well the Japs.

>What I question is trying to assign concepts such as "Chinese" or "Han ethnicity" when they didn't function that way,

It doesn't matter how people viewed their ethnicity two thousand years ago. What matters is how such viewpoints developed toward the present (nobody cares about Roman identity in 2017, just how that Roman identity developed into modern France/Italy/Spain/Romania). You can prattle on about the King of Zhou and his feudal obligations all you desire, the fact of the matter is they expanded, and that zeal for expansionism produced the modern Han we know today.

>It doesn't matter how people viewed their ethnicity two thousand years ago.
Yes it does. Trying to speak of a Chinese nation before the Qing or a Han identity prior to the Ming is ludicrous.

You are either unable or unwilling to distinguish between why geopolitical Zhongguo evolved over the centuries and why Zhongguo the nation are fundamentally different.

>the fact of the matter is they expanded, and that zeal for expansionism produced the modern Han we know today.
What does the Zhou conquest of the Shang(both were Sinitic) have to do with the conquest of non Sinitic polities and the spread of the Han ethnicity?

Han actually outnumber uyghurs in xinjiang

As they say on the 'boards, "top kek, friend!"

Even the "Han" is a meme though. A n
Northerner from Tianjin speaks a different language, has different physical features, distinct genetics, a different culinary tradition, etc. etc. than a Southerner from Guangdong.

As pointed out, China is not a nation state in the European tradition, it's a complete civilization more like if the Roman Empire survived to the modern day and was trying to function as a nation state.

Tbh average Tibetan is better off under Chinese rule than he was under the "enlightened" rule of Lamas.

Source? All the sources I have read point to a slight percentage lead of Uighur over Han.

What you have to understand is that Free Tibet is Western agitprop created to denigrate and weaken China. The average Tibetan lives a far better life thanks to investment from the central Chinese government than they would have otherwise.

Additionally, everybody seems to have this image of too bad as being run by peaceful and enlightened utopia monks and evil communists are crushing a harmonious wonderland. But you should go and look up some of the facts about what Tibetan rulers were like. A lot of chopping off hands and murder is involved.

Those people setting themselves on fire? 99% monks buttmad that they have no power anymore.

ITT: retarded Anglos get confused because 汉族、华人、中国 are all translated as "Chinese".

I see this post all the time but it's bullshit.
What if the Tibetans don't want to trade a better income for the death of their home? As a European I would gladly trade shitskins for a worse economy.

So much for the religion of peace.

*中国人

wtf I love the CCP now

Seriously, the monks are equivalent to to "1%" of today, people who just live off others and don't really do anything but expect everybody in the village to feed, clothe and take care of them for free because they are born special.

Only Richard Gere Namaste Yoga Backpackers think Buddhists are peaceful.

You look at Asian history, you have shit like Lamas destroying the Tibetan secular state and divvying the country up in feudal monastic territories. You have shit in Japan where Monasteries are basically feudal landholdings and the Monks and Abbots basically feudal lords who even go to war if their policies are not supported by state actors. You have shit in Thailand and Burma where the Monks became the official state religion and were Borgia tier in terms of corruption.

Only place where Buddhist Monks were truly monks was in China, given that the Chinese have a tendency to shit on religions who try to be more powerful than the state.

China pretty much ingests local territory, inserts base chinese culture that mixes with the local one, and out emerges another group of han people

At this rate we will probably have the world as one han someday

Why are Europeans are allowed to keep now-European territory? Please hand back America, Canada and Australia to natives, you need to go back to Europe.

>non-Chinese territory
Because, first you need to define what is Chinese and what is non-Chinese territory. Second, you need to consider who the fuck are you have the right to decide what is Chinese and what is non-Chinese. Are you Chinese yourself or a SJW? You are not the overlord or salve master of Chinese people, and Chinese people are not only equal to Han, just like Americans are not only equal to Anglo.

CHINA WILL GROW LARGER

Why are Europeans are allowed to keep non-European territory? Please hand back America, Canada and Australia to natives, you need to go back to Europe.

The thing is that everyone complains about Europeans already, but nobody ever mentions what the Chinese are doing in Africa right now or how the Arabs also owned slaves, ya dig?

in what world that western world didn't take the chance to shit on china on tibet/east turkestan/ mongol ?

because they have the power to hold it

It's literally called "land of the russians" in most languages.

>greater china
>not controlling north vietnam
>not controlling Korea
Mediocre desu senpai

Fun fact- in addition to noticeably darker skin and other physical features, different culinary traditions, different language, different everything, southern Chinese are much shorter than northern Chinese. Hong Kong is the richest part of all of China, with GDP per capita (PPP) and HDI higher than the USA, yet its males are on average ~2 inches shorter than those in places like Heilongjiang and Beijing. This should give you some idea of how much of a meme the Han ethnicity is, and how successful the Chinese were at integrating all these different groups. The difference is even more profound when you compare northern and southern provinces with similar levels of development/standard of living, like Guangxi and Shanxi.

shanghaiist.com/2015/07/01/average-heights-men-women.php

>Beijing: 175.32 cm
>Heilongjiang: 175.26 cm
>Hong Kong: 170.89 cm

Han was never based on blood but the spread of Sinitic culture and language.

A north to south genetic cline doesn't invalidate the self perception of the modern Han Chinese.

When compared to neighboring populations(such as the Hakka or Fujianese) the Han from Guangdong/Guangxi are significantly more "southern" shifted as they assimilated far more Tai Kadai speakers.

That doesn't mean it's ethnically homogeneous