Rather than the Schlieffen Plan...

the 'russia is unconquerable' meme needs to end

It's really easy to say that in hindsight. The Germans assumed the Russians would take forever to mobilize (a fair assumption). And in the most recent war against the French they were complete pushovers. So they invaded France. It's pretty easy to say they shouldn't have when you already know that their plan failed.

Well when you also figure moving troops in Russia is a daunting task, and once they get in Russia they can no longer use rails it becomes a slog, Germany still should have marched on Russia though, just not far into it, take the Polish lands from them, sit on them, then bleed them well playing defensive on both fronts.
Also keeping the British out of the war was paramount to any victory.
Even willy wanted to focus on Russia and not deploy to Belgium after the British ultimatum was given but he was told it could not be done.

Yeah alright Sherlock, well done with the 20/20 hindsight

Next you'll tell us they should've installed anti-aircraft emplacements on the twin towers

How about you open a basic history book and go post reddit memes on reddit until you finish it?

Well they also knew it at the time but too late to change the actions they set in motion apparently.

>he thinks the British would have stayed out on account of Belgium not being invaded

Yeah I'm sure they'll allow Germany to dominate the continent with zero interference

How could they have known at the time?

Because the brits literally told them if you invade Belgium we are going to war with you, and they knew the brits would turn the tide in favor of the French.

The Germans are not at risk of dominating the continent if they are fighting a limited offensive war in Russia and a defensive war against France.

The Russiams were so u prepared they were literally sending soldiers out with spears because they didn't have enough rifles.

Even focusing the majority of the war effort on the Wstern Fromt, the Germans BTFOd the Russians out of Poland. Focusing on Russia while playing defense against France, they could've BTFOd Russia so bad that a Nicky would've been forced into peace talks.

then why did Germany btfo Russia despite fighting a two-front war?

While you happen to be right, it's not clear how the Germans could have known this.

Maybe the Germans should have had better intelligence regarding the Russian rail system (they certainly had plenty regarding the French and Belgian systems).

Did the Germans expect Britain to get involved over Belgium?

Seriously.

The thing is, between 1880-1914, Russia had modernized to a great degree, including a vastly better rail network. However, this doesn't seem to have been known outside of Russia.

>The thing is, between 1880-1914, Russia had modernized to a great degree, including a vastly better rail network. However, this doesn't seem to have been known outside of Russia.
New to the thread, but that certainly isn't true. Half of then current German foreign policy was a reaction to the perceived growing strength of Russia. The entire reason they went after France first is that they assumed that France was the weaker of the two powers.

>they assumed that France was the weaker of the two powers.
This. WW1 wqas supposed to be primarily fought in Eastern Prussia, with a secondary western front

I thought the Schliefen plan was contingent on a slow Russian mobilization. I'm missing something here.

I mean yeah its a good idea but only with hindsight.
How would someone even avoid thinking through hindsight?

Not really, no. You look at things like Aufsmarch 2, and they assume that France and Russia will attack at the same time, and they're still splitting the force 80%/20% in favor of France and attacking on the West, not the East.

Germany can't win an attrition war.

They wanted to cripple france before Russia reached them

1. The Russian army mobilized a month earlier than expected.
2. The Russians reached inner Prussia before the Germans shifted enough forces to stall them.
3. The Russians practically annihilated Austria-Hungary by themselves, which forced Germany to focus on its east in 1916-1917.
4. If the Germans were marching on Moscow, the Communists would not have made peace. Likewise, the 1917 revolution may not have occurred if everyone in Russia was extremely afraid of being decimated by the Germans.
5. A quick defeat of Russia would likely have led Britain to declare war on Germany.

more men and a better army than france, yes they could

That's what I'm saying, they thought the Russians would be slow to mobilize.

>Did the Germans expect Britain to get involved over Belgium?
They did after they informed England they were going to violate the treaty of London and England told them to get out of Belgium and leave it alone or it is war.

>Have an army completly focused on Bewegungskrieg entrench themself
Both the population and the officers would have rebelled against the Kaiser. They all expected the war in the west to go like 1871.

>a better army
Not for long if you throw them into a meat grinder

yeah, that better army sure managed to rek the french at la marne

They could, provided the Britbottles didn't get involved. Once the British blockade was in place the countdown to German defeat began.

There is no version of WW1 where British don't get involved.

Seriously this same shit happens with WW2 too.

>i-i-i-i-if we can keep perfidious albion out, we can win!

Yeah no shit but good luck expecting Britain to stand back and watch Germany invade all of its neighboring countries while sipping tea quietly.

The only shot you have is if the Tunguska comet hits London instead of Siberia in 1908.

The assumption of his scenario is that Britain stays out and Russia could be defeated sooner than it happened in reality

>they knew the brits would turn the tide in favor of the French.
Britain had a tiny army at the time. France and Russia were considered much more immediate threats. The Schlieffen-Plan was chosen because Germany didn't believe they were able to beat France and Russia in a two-fronts war. Germany was under the impression that if they didn't deliver a fast knock-out punch they couldn't win.
All continental powers planned offensively. Germany, France, Russia, Austria - they all had offensive planning, and all of their plans failed. The central problem was that nobody really understood how warfare had changed. This was not a particularly German problem but a general problem at the time.
In that regard, what you're saying is pure hindsight because countless people who were smarter and better educated than you were unable to see what you believe to be obvious.

I might add: in general I agree with the assessment. If Germany had fought defensively in the west and offensively in the east, without giving Britain the motivation to enter the war, then WW1 could have been won.

I'm just saying: from the German point of view this was war from obvious. It's pure hindsight.

Britain only officially did intervene because of belgium.
but with the, by that time, bad german-british relations, economical, colonial and naval rivalry, they would have found another reason to part take in the war.

Yes, chiefly that Britain's main foreign policy doctrine has always been to prevent a single country from dominating the continent (which would have been the case if the Central Powers won). But whether they enter in August 1914 or later could really matter.

fair point, but it wouldnt matter if the german army started with overpowering russia like it was suggested.

>Yeah no shit but good luck expecting Britain to stand back and watch Germany invade all of its neighboring countries while sipping tea quietly.
This scenario involves Germany invading Russia only and playing turtle with France though.

>The only shot you have is if the Tunguska comet hits London instead of Siberia in 1908.
Or, that Russia collapses under the strain of facing the majority of the German Army along with whatever AH, Bulgaria and the Ottomans can contribute.

Ottoman entry on the side of the Central Powers is doubtful in that case. You have to consider that they weren`t formally allied, and their entry was more an accident than anything else.

But on the other hand, an ottoman entry into the war could trigger a british response, making it all moot anyway.

IT would buy the germans time

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Brest-Litovsk
The Germans DID win against Russia though

>Win
There were no winners with the commies taking power

this is literal reddit tier history 101 bullshit

honestly, why didn't the krauts just go for smaller scale encirclements? They could have bagged the french attack on Lorraine and easily could have swung inwards after the frontier battles. But nooooo, stretch for paris. What a plan

on the defensive the casuality figures are totally in their favor

When did the byzantines fight russia? I thought they converted them?

>implying it was only the french
without british help they would have lost

>French army is better because it managed to stop the Germans outside their capital after losing a significant portion of their own territory (including a good deal of their industry) and basically failing to penetrate the German border