Should the parthenon marbles be returned to Athens?

Should the parthenon marbles be returned to Athens?

Yes

/thread

No. I don't understand the fetish for preserving broken buildings in broken conditions. We'd be better off disassembling the Parthenon, and putting it away into museums, and building a new Parthenon in its place.

Certainly if it had been damaged in antiquity, the Greeks would have fixed it.

>Certainly if it had been damaged in antiquity, the Greeks would have fixed it.
That was then but this is now. I'm personally offended that someone would even take this point of view.

No, the "Greeks" are actually Turk rape babies. The Elgin Marbles rightfully belong to the heirs of western civilization.

>implying greece can afford to do that

Until the modern day, architecture has always been a living discipline. A church built in the tenth century, would have a tower added in the 12th, a nave expanded in the 15th, a colonnade in the 17th. Why do people get so autistic about adding, or even fixing, something in the 21st? You are shitting on five thousand years of architectural tradition.

part of the problem is that we're hilariously better at architecture and construction than everything that came before

an ancient church is impressive because it was high tech when it was built, building one like that these days is to simplistic to count as anything resembling an achievement

So argentinians

any cultural heritage taken from its country of origin should be returned AS LONG as the receiving country can provide evidence it will be taken care of by appropriate curators
or at least that's my opinion

>Give them back to Greece
>Greece sells them to private collectors the next time they ruin their economy

>is that we're hilariously better at architecture and construction than everything that came before

And in each time period that added new features were they not technically superior than the one they were adding too?

Even if our means to improve or add on to architectural buildings has improved does not mean we have to use such means.

/thread

Athens is a third world shithole. If the British hadn't seized them they would be little more than fragments now.

They are not white though

>give the marbles back to the greeks
>Sultan Erdogan I invades Greece and destroys Athens and the marbles

>give the marbles back to the greeks
>Golden Dawn and Anarchists and Communists start a civil war and the marbles get destroyed

Sounds like a bad idea to me.

No. Offer to pay some of their debt in exchange for more statues

If they can take Constantinople they can have it back

>double /threading
bored user?

>implying

Speaking from the perspective of someone who's been around Greece to visit Ancient ruins... They're perfectly capable of looking after the Elgin marbles. The Acropolis museum is absolutely state-of-the-art modern stuff, where the marbles would be placed.

Regardless, the National Archaeological museum in Athens is not a modern high-tech building but neither is the British Museum.

This is coming from a bong btw

The only reason why my government doesn't want to return the marbles is because if we did, then it would mean we'd have to return all the ancient artifacts that we took from the colonies, and it's not like the Celts built anything all that impressive in comparison to other nations...

this basically

>The Acropolis museum is absolutely state-of-the-art modern stuff, where the marbles would be placed.

That was literally only built in the past few years.

Personally, I don't think anyone "rightfully" owns artifacts from thousands of years ago. There is no continuity between the people who made them and the modern Greek state. They belong to humanity collectively, and should go to wherever they will be best taken care of and shared with the world.

That said, there is no particular reason they *shouldn't* be in Greece, and it does have the advantage of the landscape giving some context.

It was built in the last few years? Even more reason why the Elgin marbles should be placed there.

this was meant for this

The Acropolis Museum is brand new. Give it a few years. Ever walked around Athens? Or any of Greece for that matter? The whole place looks like a fucking Soviet bus stop that got carpet bombed a few years back. It's a shithole. Greeks don't even have money to afford olive oil to wrestle and fuck hairy boys in, let alone preserve their own cultural heritage.

If you give them back, it'll be just like when they returned King Tut to the Egyptians and within a few years they already broke the fucking beard off of the sarcophagus.

But there is continuity between ancient Greeks and the Greeks of today, they're the same people.

This.

Sometimes you just can't trust the natives to preserve their own monuments and wonders. It's actually amazing to me the pyramids are still standing.

lol no

Greece is an utter shithole and would sell them the next time Germany refuses to bail them out. Let the bongs keep them, at least they'll be safe.

>But there is continuity between ancient Greeks and the Greeks of today, they're the same people.

A "people" doesn't last 2500 years.

>Ever walked around Athens?
No, I flew around on winged sandals

Most of Athens pretty at all. This is undeniable, but entirely superficial. The only thing that matters is whether or not the Acropolis Museum, and those that staff it, would look after the marbles responsibly.

Judging by the condition of everything in the National Archaeological Museum in Athens, as well as the new Acropolis Museum, it's obviously the case that they can.


>If you give them back, it'll be just like when they returned King Tut to the Egyptians and within a few years they already broke the fucking beard off of the sarcophagus.
[citation needed] [dubious - discuss]

>It's actually amazing to me the pyramids are still standing.

How the fuck would they get knocked down?

we bought them fair and square they where going to be broken up for local house building. if we never saw the cultural value in them and bought them they wouldn't be around today.Better these things are spread globally rather than having another library of Alexandria scenario.

Better knock on wood. The Mudslime Brotherhood is pushing to either demo the pyramids or cover them in "wax" so Muslims don't have to look at them.

Couldn't make this shit up if I tried.

Do any of you realize the Turks come from just across the sea from the Greeks. They are barely even different in the first place.

>We bought them fair and square
>They were going to broken up for a local house building

These two statements seem to contradict one another. They were bought off the invading Ottoman army, who I don't think the Greeks would view as being rightfully in possession of the marbles.

Elgin said he obtained from the Sultan a firman to allow himself and others access the Acropolis, but he was never able to produce the original copy.

>However, a document claimed to be an English translation of an Italian copy made at the time was presented by Elgin in its stead, and this document is now kept in the British Museum

(St Clair, William: Lord Elgin and the Marbles. Oxford University Press, USA, 3 edition (17 July 1998)

>Its authenticity has been questioned, as it lacked the formalities characterising edicts from the sultan. Vassilis Demetriades, Professor of Turkish Studies at the University of Crete, has argued that "any expert in Ottoman diplomatic language can easily ascertain that the original of the document which has survived was not a firman".

(Professor Vassilis Demetriades - University of Crete)


"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Fair and square""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

No, they should remain in a 1st world nation.

>give it to a politically unstable country
>dude it's our collective white guilt that they destroyed palmyra as we financed Waahbism
>dude the people like died so keep it in the earth because they belong to mother nature now man

>French and English are the same
>how dare we separate those poor Africans along our colonial borders

>If you give them back, it'll be just like when they returned King Tut to the Egyptians and within a few years they already broke the fucking beard off of the sarcophagus.

You know the marbles got damages in Britain too?

Issue with that is the nation can make the criteria absurd so that it's very hard to get them.

You can be a stable nation and one unstable one nearby but not bordering is enough to disqualify you. You can use any terrorist event in the past say ten years as a refusal to give. You can make up anything really to just refuse to hand them over.

The main thing that's happening is that they are making the countries have to pay money to get their stuff back lol.

>invading Ottoman army
It was the Greek locals who where using the stone for housing.Neither the Greeks or Ottomans deemed them of any value at that time The Ottomans where the current rulers of Greece its not workable to mute an exchange every change of state or civilization.It would be like Russia demanding Alaska back because oil was discovered and its now valuable