When did you realize that the present day is objectively one of the shittiest times to be alive and the only Defence...

>Your entire life 24/7 is now not entirely devoted to working

You know that's just a meme invented by liberal revisionists, right? People actually worked way less than they do now. There was plenty of 'free' time.

>accruing wealth, traveling the world

empty pursuits

>contributing to society

... which most modern people don't. Pre-Enlightenment humanity was a lot more altruistic. Modern man is extremely selfish, from a historical point of view.

The middle class was a mistake

>here in the 21st century we are enlightened by our own intelligence, not some phony God's blessing

This was a much heard complaint by Eastern Germans when Germany was reunified.

For everything from applying for health care to getting a child in daycare they had to fill in form after form, something they never experienced before. People who lived under the Stasi felt they had less privacy.

Not apologizing for the Eastern German system or anything, I just really hate bureaucracy.

This. Also watch normies faces contort when you tell them more immigrants returned to their native country than settled in America.

>when we refer to times being "simpler" back in the past, I like to picture the lessened effects of bureaucracy and control

But you would be under the control of your lord, even though you might be under less surveillance.

>Modern man is extremely selfish, from a historical point of view.
People have always been selfish. It's man's natural tendency. The oldest corporation in the world is the Catholic Church and they've been exploiting people for personal gain since the 300s CE.

All that is is manifest. If it isn't perceptible, it is not worth our time. The same is true of God, and especially the notion of heaven. The ancient Jews didn't even believe in a heaven, or a hell for that matter.

Things were so simple that the average lifespan was terrible, most of your children would die before they matured and you would possibly lose multiple wives to childbirth and have your heart wracked with grief.

Stop being an edgy retard. The only reason why you bitch about your modern life is because you're some melancholic dipshit who doesn't know what actual hardship is.

Primitivists are biggest idiots on the fucking planet.

>Whig history

dumb frogposter

>whole paragraph of memes
>I'm too stupid or too much of a normie to understand why someone would be disaffected with society

Also women dying in childbirth is hot. Puts them back in their place as the weaker sex.

Yep. If you fall off the left end you become a Communist. If you fall off the right end you become a Traditionalist. Both ideologies see modernity for the illusion that it is.

I'd also like to add there's nothing "empty" about accruing wealth. It is by biological necessity that we perpetuate ourselves, which entails accruing resources of some kind so as to make the perpetuation of our DNA more feasible. With the advent of society and the transfiguring of resource into capital, the superficial nature of the paradigm has shifted yet at it's core it has remained the same. The weak will die at the hands of the strong who have accrued the greatest resources.

>le the past was just as bad as the present maymay

Get the fuck off Veeky Forums if you're just going to spout Whig platitudes.

I bet you're one of those types of people who believes pic related.

WE

I think humanity has this incredible ability to build fantasy worlds especially when they lack the vast majority of the proper information about their fantasy world.

All sane, intelligent people see that modernity is full of illusions. However just because you see that modernity is full of illusions doesn't mean you've got to deludedly think that communism or traditionalism are any better.

>what was slavery
>what was feudalism
>what was the repression of freedom of thought
>what puritanism

The picture is a joke. Only a nu-atheist would deny the incredible feats made by the Arabs during the middle ages. The same may be said of the study of the greeks by the Catholics during the same time. Only a traditionalist, however, would also say that there was abject greatness during such time. We are always in a balance of quality and shit. There's always greatness somewhere and somewhen, but never everywhere and always. There was no universal golden age, never will be.

>tfw classical conservatism and divine monarchism are dead
truly the worst timeline

Inshallah brother!

Traditionalism is the soil which allows great cultures to flourish.

Eh, I wouldn't want to live THAT far back, into the times of lords and ladies. Even if I did though, less surveillance, like you said. Makes it much harder for the same level of bureaucracy to operate when they can't keep tabs 100% of the time. Even so, the time periods I think I would have liked to live in had systems where the effects of bureaucracy were extremely lessened.

The incredible feat of catching up to European civilization?

The grass is always greener on the other side, user. I have no smartphone, no cable, no internet at my house (but occasional access elsewhere), no social media accounts, and I'm living a pretty fulfilling life right here, right now...

>If it wasn't for the romans man could be exploring the stars right now

No. The arabs wrote extensively about Aristotelian metaphysics, invented Algebra, and formulated a massive cultural and economic center in the city of Baghdad.

Chattel slavery/feudalism was objectively a better system than tax slavery/democracy.

Puritans were the original Progressives- exactly the type of people Traditionalists oppose.

>what was the repression of freedom of thought

Whig meme. fuck off

I try to take responsibility for my emotions instead of pinning them on material circumstances.

If I'm sad, then I figure out why and change it internally rather than externally.

I recommend this perspective to everyone who listens.

You are fucking stupid if you are dissatisfied with society. you are now part of the best generation of humanity, having access to the greatest level of communication, health, and transportation than ever before. If you're disaffected with modern life, you'd be just as miserable in the past. The problem isn't life, it's that you're just a melancholic person.

I spent my entire childhood as a medical freakshow, requiring constant operations to live including the removal of my colon to prevent cancer, and the restructuring of my legs which were malformed. Pain was constant, but I was still happy. All life is shit, some lives are shittier than others. Success isn't measured in affluence, but your ability to cope with suffering and find joy despite it, or even live a fully joyous life. I recommend you study existentialism if you really are so disappointed in a world where cancer isn't a death sentence, food is in endless supply in the west, and books can be easily downloaded off the internet from databases of seemingly endless knowledge.

>repression of freedom of thought
>literally falling for 1789 propaganda

I know people have a kneejerk reaction to Foucault but he's very insightful on the origins of states regulating and controlling their citizens.

The true redpill is moving to Canada and voting liberal
Conservicucks think Trudeau is a weakling. Real traditionalists realize he's a philosopher cut of the same cloth as Fritjof Schuon and ʿAbd al-Wāḥid Yaḥyá

>"No real leader can see the people around them as static creatures. If you cannot see the potential I the people around you, it’s impossible to rouse them to great things. That may be one of the reasons why, even now, I always make time for a novel or two every month, amongst the mountains of serious works and briefing notes. Facts may fuel a leader’s intellect. But literature fuels the soul."

GO BACK TO /R9K/ YOU WHINY BITCH

>Chattel slavery/feudalism was objectively a better system than tax slavery/democracy.
In what way, exactly? You mean how they were literally bound to the land? And how their children were too? Or maybe how they were almost equivalent to property? Yea I bet you're just dying to be in that position right? I can tell already you're one of those types that rejects freedom and liberty.

>Puritans were the original progressives
So progressive that they killed thousands, banned dancing and music and established a theocratic dictatorship. Right

>what was the repression of freedom of thought
seriously? Wycliffe? Hus? Joan of Arc? Are kidding with me here? I mean jesus christ Wycliffe was burned for trying to spread the Bible to the masses how do you refute this it's the literal definition of repression of thought.

>slavery
virtually dead in western europe post romans
>feudalism
what about it? you gonna post the meme triangle?
>repression of freedom of thought
A largely modern idea which has been critcized numerous times in literature. Also something vastly overstated; the church couldn't monitor your thoughts 24/7 and post-reformation you could go to pretty much any protestant country. As far as criticizing absolutism, well yeah I guess you could say that's a good thing modern society has. I highly doubt the people who like themselves as traditionalists care about freedom of criticism or whatever.
>puritanism
Literally what how is this even a criticism? Puritans were basically non-existent anywhere and traditionalists like that kind of crap anyway. They just tend to ignore the fact that everyone in the lower class cities is a debauchee

>materialism meme

>suffering from a toothache any century prior to the 20th

Can Weedman be stopped?

repression of thought insofar as it existed prior to the Reformation. The Reformation gave birth in many ways to modern concepts of individualist thought.

Puritanism insofar as it sought absolutist control over people and sought forced teaching of illogical, indemonstrable, and fundamentalist ideals.

Give an example of a great culture and explain how traditionalism allowed it to flourish.

>books
>materialism

>Now I just get drugs, YouTube and enrichment.
You get food, you get vaccines, you get to live a peaceful life with your family, you get to read a book, you get to go to school and if you do well in school you get to live life however you want to, within reasonable bounds. You can become a farmer, you can be Amish, you can be religious, you can be a degenerate.

Now is the time when life is simple. It's good that life is boring. When life stops being boring, that's when you know bad things are happening.

Okay so you are a retard. Puritans were a massive fucking minority. Fucking Maryland was founded by Catholics. Pennsylvania by Quakers. That's ignoring the Spanish and French colonies. Wycliffe died from a stroke you fucking retard. The Bible was already available to the masses (through, you know, Church and the priests/monks), he tried to translate it into vernacular and then criticized monasticism.. Hus was under investigation and told not to preach; he preached and was punished. Hus was the one who was burned for preaching against the pope.
>Joan of Arc
You have to be one of the biggest retards on the board. The Catholics found her not guilty of anything. It was the butthurt English who had her burned for wearing mens clothes, they would have killed her any way they could it was a farce trial.

You're an idiot. You've managed to make the traditionalists look smart.
> existed prior to the Reformation
It was basic "don't fuck with the Pope or Papal authority". Same shit with the President, you don't get off saying "I don't recognize the President or the police as a form of authority" you'd get thrown in the back of the Police car in five seconds. You forget Erasmus and the other hundreds of monks who petitioned the Pope for reform prior to that autist luther.
>it sought absolutist control over people and sought forced teaching of illogical, indemonstrable, and fundamentalist ideals
Literally nonexistent. You just made this shit up. Again, the puritans were a minority fringe group. It's the equivalent of pointing to the West Boro today and saying how anti-fag and military we are

Im a radical centrist. point invalid

>entire post is nothing but muh medicine, travel, books, electronics

would not be so bad - viagra, cheap entertainment and like - if not for ultraintrusive society, which is getting closer and closer to anthill... you are not free to do what you want, you have just several tracks that must be chosen in early youth, then you cant change anything... people in past could break free through entrepreneurship and arts but it's no more - internet kills affordable business, and whatever you create lost in oceans of information, and art without audience is useless

>food

wasn't a problem in the past

>vaccines

extends people past their natural lifespan, costing society exponentially more resources to tend to the old

>peaceful

have to give 35% of my income to a giant mafia or they will kidnap me. t-thanks...

>read a book

most people don't

>go to school

memorize useless factoids in a glorified daycare center

>puritans only existed in America
Fucking mongoloid. Do you even know who Cromwell was?

>Wycliffe died from a stroke
Minor detail. He was still declared a heretic and his works were burned.

>Joan of Arc
My mistake.

>don't fuck with the Pope or Papal authority or be killed
Wow sounds like a great time to be alive fuck me. Nowadays you can say "Fuck trump" and not be killed.

>puritanism didn't seek absolutist control
Again, see cromwell.

>Cromwell
>because England had a shitty ruler for 5 years suddenly all of prior history is the worst place to live in ever
I think the point traditionalists try and make is that inspite of the bad parts of history (oh btw there are bad parts even today, people were living under the fear of nuclear extermination for approx ~40 years) it was still better back then.
>Minor detail
The crux of your point was that he was burned for spreading the bible. He wasn't burned he died a normal death and his works were burned later. Again, largely for opposing the pope.
>Wow sounds like a great time to be alive fuck me
Next time a police officer pulls you over say to him "I am a sovereign citizen and do not respect your authority/will not comply". Then watch him break the window. Be sure to film it so we can laugh. Even better carry a toy gun and reach for it so we can watch him shoot your ass down and spare the world a few less idiotic thoughts.
>puritanism didn't seek absolutist control
Oh they did. They just got ousted. Besides they were non-existent on the mainland of Europe. English history has always been a travesty.

Joan of Arc was tried by the inquisition in Rouen, and burnt as a heretic because she refused to wear a dress

>When did you realize that the present day is objectively one of the shittiest times to be alive
Objectively incorrect.
>the only Defence mechanism normies have is "muh iPhone"?
Also incorrect. Please consider the following charts.

>implying women shouldn't wear dresses

...

Ugh, fucking materialism.

...

...

...

Exactly, the Church in Rouen was supported by the English. The actual inquisition couldn't find anything actually against her other than wearing men's clothes. The fact that the verdict was rescinded 20 years later should add to this.

...

Someone being personally 'disaffected with society' is fine. Making a thread stating that the present is the "objectively shittiest time to be alive" is not.

I won't even bother with the rest of your post.

None of those things are materialism. That is using things to achieve happiness, and not taking happiness from things in of themselves.

You're a moron.

>OP claims the only way to defend the modern world is using a materialist argument
>proceeds to post materialist argument

Well done, you proved OP's point.

...

>south sudan is grey

Nice backtracking. First you claim that not recognizing Trump as your president will get you arrested in five seconds, despite that exact sentiment being an extremely popular opinion in twitter and the MSM since his election (lol russia). and constitutionally defended. So you escalate it to noncompliance with police.

Got any more piss-poor equivalencies for us?

Conflating poverty and availability of food with """materialism""" so you can keep wallowing in self pity, blaming society for your problems.
"Objectively" pathetic.

You don't need material wealth when you're an Aristocrat of Soul.

>it's a sheltered suburbanite who grew up enjoying all the benefits of an industrialized society thinks living on a subsistence level would be better thread

I'm okay with my medicine, computers, surplus food and indoor plumbing, thank you.

...

>when the only thing you have going for your society is iPhones and ethnic food

>when the only argument you have against low violence, poverty, famine, infant mortality, maternal mortality, improved medical access and development is relentless strawmanning
Sad.

>being a pleb farmer
>living on a subsistence level

choose one

>utilitarianism

It's like I'm actually in 1840

>wasn't a problem in the past
That's objectively false - ourworldindata.org/famines/. Really, we have more abundant food supplies than at any time in history, and it's far cheaper than ever before.

>extends people past their natural lifespan, costing society exponentially more resources to tend to the old
Yeah, because people dying in their thousands or millions as children or young adults is perfectly alright. Imagine the worst stomach ache you've ever had; that's nothing compared to smallpox. Yet we don't have to worry about getting such horrendous diseases. And as to resources, again, the fact that we have enough to provide for the old proves again that now is the best time in history.

>have to give 35% of my income to a giant mafia or they will kidnap me. t-thanks...
Are you a 14 year old libertarian or something? Yeah, highways, police, firefighters, infrastructure, economic development, the court system, and the Internet you're complaining over - what an awful exchange for some tax dollars.

>most people don't
And? At least you have the option, whereas in the past literacy was far harder to come by.

>memorize useless factoids in a glorified daycare center
Useless factoids: reading and writing, arithmetic, world history, world languages, critical thinking, economics, etc. None of us would even be on Veeky Forums if it wasn't for our various social studies courses.

Face it, we are living in the greatest time in history. Anyone who tells you otherwise is just sentimental, and all arguments saying otherwise are just oversimplifications and pessimism about current society. Be happy you aren't out breaking your back for your feudal master or slowly dying from malaria.

>it's worse to live in marxism

I agree.

Excuse me, but this is the daily autist echochamber thread. Stop triggering our special friends.

>still no arguments

> He would prefer to have died of small pox and famine just so he could indulge his Luddite fantasy of not having an Iphone

>Nice backtracking
I didn't back track once. When did I say "saying 'fuck trump'" is the exact same as preaching outright contrary to papal authority or preaching when ordered not to is the same? I equated preaching when told not to as being non compliant to the police. Here, let me quote the original statement I made
>"don't fuck with the Pope or Papal authority". Same shit with the President, you don't get off saying "I don't recognize the President or the police as a form of authority" you'd get thrown in the back of the Police car in five seconds.
It was never "fuck trump".

Got anymore failures to comprehend basic sentences and arguments?

LOL at this thread. OP is getting beat like a one-legged red-headed stepchild in an ass-kicking contest.

>Reddit posting

There's a 99% chance that you're a materialist too, you've just never suffered from such material deprivation that you realized the value of the material.

Do you really think most people were doing that? Do you really think that many people, especially farmers weren't staunch traditionalists and devout Christians?
Simply because no one subscribes to principles or morals today doesn't mean people were as fucked as you are back then