Ok I'm literally retarded when it comes to shorting/margin trading. Let's say I think Ether will go down 4%, so i short and sell 100 ether with, oh let's say, 20x leverage. Let's say my prediction was correct, and ether does go down 4%.
a.) What does the leverage do? If I sold 100 ether and bought back in when it was 4% cheaper I'd have 104 ether, right? But what would the 20x mean?
b.) what happens if I'm wrong and ether actually goes up? Could I hodl and turn my short into a long until ether eventually goes back down?
Luis Sanchez
Having a short go wrong will make you want to shoot yourself. The risks are so much worse than going long. Stay away from this crap and just buy coins with good potential when they are at a low price, for example BitBay
Mason Butler
SILK ROAD V5.0
FINNA MOON
XDDDDD
Benjamin Fisher
Shorting with leverage just multiplies your gains/losses. The problem with shorting is the unlimited downside compared to the unlimited upside of going long. Don't short irrational securities
Mason Gomez
So if I short ETH, predit it will go down, and it goes down by 4% and I originally sold 100 ETH would I have 104 ETH, 120 ETH or 124 ETH? I'm mathematically challenged
Jaxon Murphy
(assuming 20x leverage, for example)
Brandon Collins
>The problem with shorting is the unlimited downside >don't short irrational securities this, imagine if you were "smart" enough to short bitcoin in 2011 (or assume there was a place that would let you)
seems like a good idea at the time (bitcoin was a literal shitcoin in 2011 with little practical use at the time) but infinite potential for assrape
of course, your margin account would be closed long before you got to that level of loss, but still
David Morris
I need to know as well
Blake Smith
You don't end up with ETH. Shorting goes like this
1, sell coins (that you don't own) and receive USD (or BTC) for it 2, wait, hopefully price drops 3, buy back coins, using some of that USD (or BTC) you received when selling 4, enjoy the USD (or BTC) profit you got from the trade
Say you have $300 in your account:
Example 1: You short sell 1 ETH at $300, price drops, you buy it back at $290. Profit: $300-290= $10 = 3.33%. This wasn't a leveraged trade.
Example 2: You want to short sell with leverage. You short sell 20 ETH at $300 each, price drops, you buy them back at $290. Profit: 20*(300-290)= $200 = 66.7%
So with a 20x leveraged short trade you get 20x the profit.
questions?
Thomas James
What's the negative side of the leveraged short trade can you show the math?
Jace Barnes
nigga are you fucking stupid? whatever your fucking leverage is, if its 20x, and your shit goes up 20%, you 20x what you'd get normally
if it fucking goes down, you make 20x the losses
this isn't fucking complicated, think for yourself you useless fuck
Elijah Mitchell
leverage only allows you to open positions larger than your collateral.
like maybe you only own 5 eth, but with 20x leverage you can make a position on 100 eth. you still get the 4% on the 100, but put up 5 eth as collateral.
Adrian Lopez
not him but
You short sell with leverage. You short 20 ETH at $300 each, price increases, you buy them back at $310. Profit: -$200.
Now, there is some more complexity here. Because you have finite money and short selling has unlimited downside, the person lending you money sets a liquidation point where your position will be closed and your collateral used to pay them back the unrealized losses, so that they don't lose money. In our example, if you had 20x leverage, that would mean you must use $300 as collateral for the trade. At our closing where our unrealized profit is -$200, we are at 200/300 = 33.3% margin level. A common liquidation margin is 20% (Poloniex), which means that in our example, once the unrealized profit hits -$240 (240/300 = 20%), your position is automatically closed. This would correspond to a ETH price of $312.
Zachary Jones
Shorting is pretty easy if you understand trends.
Current bear market still has a way to go. Lots of time to short.
Ayden Clark
In Example 2, what is the 20 in the equation (20*(300-290)= $200 = 66.7%) is that the amount of ether, or the leverage (20x)
Evan Gutierrez
what the fuck am I reading
John Williams
ether.
in the example, with $300 in our account, we have enough for 1 ether. so by choosing to short sell 20 of them, we're making ourselves 20x leveraged.
we chose our leverage with the amount of ETH we want to short sell. the exchange just sets a limit on how high we can go. 20x leverage would be a bit much for my taste
correct me if im wrong anyone, im sick and dizzy af
Robert Long
looks right to me. what's unclear?
Angel Parker
You're reading that you should not get into margin trading if you cannot grasp concepts clearly explained to you. When you margin trade you also pretty much lock up your money when you go in the red because you don't want to sell for a loss. >t. guy stuck with a Ripple long position
Adam Martinez
one good thing about trading with leverage in the crypto world is that the exchanges seem to guarantee that your losses will be limited to account liquidation, so you don't risk ending up in debt to an exchange. (there might be exceptions, though, i haven't really looked into it. does anyone know?)
when trading with leverage in stocks or derivatives you can end up in debt if you or your broker is unable to close your position in time