What did Rome and Han China think of each other

in an ideal world the Romans would rape the Persians Alexander style and border China

Giovanni da Pian del Carpine and William of Rubruck were sent on separate missions to the Mongols effectively on their own.

Was Decimation a common punishment back then?

youtube.com/watch?v=f4MnyLKDNKU

Depends

Less 'sent out' more 'went off to explore and bring back shit'

Seems it only happened in the early republican period when Rome was surrounded by neighbors who wanted to rape them so they couldn't fuck around.

afterwards they stopped the practiced and anyone that wanted to bring it back was treated like Luigi was

They've switch between raiding and looting/fucking up each other and working together against shit.

Kinda like Byzantines/Persians and Byzantines/Arabs.

Maybe less raiding. Depends who controls the steppes/horse based people

Honestly, I like the fact that the Persians would teach the uppity Romans here and there. Persianate civilization is remarkable and cataphracts kick ass. I'm sure Spartacus and all those slaves that got crucified got satisfaction when Crassus (yes THAT one) had molten gold poured down his throat. That's the one thing the Starz Spartacus series should've done in the end: Show Crassus getting BTFO by a well-trained civilized foe and not bands of slaves at Carrhae.

really it feels that the world is owned by the spirit of those three empires

The Han would've provided invaluable aid and advice if the Huns arrived on scene in Eastern Europe.

I do wonder how the Germanic barbarians would regard the Han? And remember, the Han dissolved in 220 AD, only 15 years before Rome's Crisis of the 3rd Century. Post-Han, this was the era of the Romance of the 3 Kingdoms. This would be a great time for any ambitious Germanic mercenaries to make their mark in the former Chinese empire.

Not the same Huns.

The 'THEY ARE THE SAAAME HUUUUNS!!!' theory was tedious at best.

Well it helps that Persian and Chinese civilization are ancient as fuck and they've influenced the world immensely.

The missing player in the imperial balance was always India. They made their mark in SE Asia, but that was usually through trade and proselytization (Hinduism and later Buddhism), but they never really projected military power outside of the subcontinent like Rome, Persia, or China did during their expansions.

I was referring to the fact that the Chinese were familiar with steppe archers and could provide invaluable experience on how to treat them.

They may not be the same people, but even if they aren't they are similar people, with similar fighting styles and social organization. Chinese advisers (or commanders) with experience fighting enemies like that couldn't have hurt, even if their contribution would have been pretty small.

The Chinese had a really fantastical expectation that those of the Dai qin were extravagantly wealthy. In the reign of Marcus Aurelius, two Roman ambassadors got sent to China to take a visit and propose an alliance.

For some reason, the Roman ambassadors didn't think to bring gifts (or they got pawned/lost to pay for travel), and heavily dissapointed the Chinese emperor. By the time they got back, Marcus Aurelius was focused on the Marcomanni and the Chinese were annoyed, so nothing further came about.

why are people talking about the persian empire

persia wasn't even a thing when rome was at its peak

What did you mean by this?

Veeky Forums is an iraniboo board, newfriend

>What is the Sassanid Empire
Epic b8

...

To be fair, Rome spent enormous amounts of their gold and silver to pay for silk imports. There were even reports of senators admonishing Rome's infatuation with silk and how it drained the treasury. So no surprise China thought Romans were rich.

They may never get along. I doubt Romans would love dog or cat meat.

He's right. Rome was at it's peak during 117 AD. After that it was a steady decline.

>memes

Romans sure enjoyed dormice however

You forget about the Parthians you fucking negroid

>Parthians
>Persian

Not him but it looks pretty Persian to me my dude

Look up Khosrau I.

Thats not what they said to the Chinese envoy, they said it was a very difficult and dangerous trip to Alexandria, from where he was to go to Rome. The guy decided to go back to China with all of what he gathered than to try and reach Rome and die.

Which was a lie.

The sea passage was easy as fuck as long as it wasn't winter

Who was better militarily around, say, 100 AD?

>anyone that wanted to bring it back was treated like Luigi was
He got his own videogame?

You're mom can win both

this

>when Crassus (yes THAT one) had molten gold poured down his throat.
Never happened

prove it

>William of Rubruck
God that must have sucked to be him
>Be Rubruck
>Travel to Kara Khorum and very accurately record your experiences in the Mongol court
>Get largely ignored only to have the memester Marco Poolo's massively innacurate book become instantly popular
Fucking Chads

I hated that movie
>That annoying fuccboi child
I sure was glad when he got thrown to his death

>The Parthians enjoyed their status as middlemen between Rome and China. It made them immensely rich thanks to the Silk Route. Having China directly link up with Rome would've bypassed all those custom tolls that Persia needed for their war machine and court.
What is this retardness? How knowing about each other cancelles the need to pass trough Persian territory? Would Perssia just magicaly dissappear?

They could have figured out an alternative sea route to each other through the Straits of Malacca that bypasses the Parthians altogether. IIRC one of Trajan's conquests that Hadrian gave up on was actually a port that could have been used for this purpose.

Depends.
Roman Empire & Han = barely knew each other, though had contact via secondhand knowledge and trade. Although a Roman ambassador arrived in the Cao Wei kingdom during the 3 Kingdoms Period.

Byzantine Empire & Latter Chinese dynasties = Knew each other very well. Byzantines had ambassadors in Chinese capitals, and the Byzantines were China's westernmost penpal and frequently sent them memorials or bulletins informing them of events in the Chinkside of the world (i.e. new emperor crowned, hi-hello greetings, thanks to gifts sent etc.)

I once heard that the Imperial Chinese considered everyone inferior to them. How true is this?

The Chinese worldview was that they were the center of civilization, and the Emperor was appointed as natural ruler of "all under heaven" by heaven.

There was Chinese traveler report from the middle-ages that spoke very highly of the Byzantines.

The Chinese were also very curious about learning other peoples cultures and traditions, like Islam, Christianity.

They also had their very own Marco Polo, Zheng He.

No. Decimation was only to be used in cases where the entire unit routed, in effect disobeying direct commands. This was an extremely rare occurrence.

After the great defeat at Cannae, the survivors were spared a decimation, but were forced into active duty for the remainder of the war.

>The survivors of Cannae were reconstituted as two legions and assigned to Sicily for the remainder of the war as punishment for their humiliating desertion of the battlefield.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimation_(Roman_army)

>The earliest documented decimation occurred in 471 BC during the Roman Republic's early wars against the Volsci and is recorded by Livy. In an incident where his army had been scattered, consul Appius Claudius Sabinus Regillensis had the culprits punished for desertion: centurions, standard-bearers and soldiers who had cast away their weapons were individually scourged and beheaded, while of the remainder, one in ten were chosen by lot and executed.

the chinese like the indians topographically come from fishbowls whilst glorious europa was forged through the fires of anarkism

e plurubus unum

It's true in Asia or East Asia, most of the time it's "fact" as well, like present. But Chinese dynasties usually didn't consider ancient India nor Dai Qing(Rome) cultures inferior to them, they respect ancient Indians highly.

India was literally quite similar to Europe lmao: it's a region of the world filled with culturally similar yet diverse peoples (i.e. European states and the Christian/Germano-Greco-Roman influenced culture everyone in Europe shares, Indian states and the Hindu/Vedic influenced culture everyone in the subcontinent shares).

And India is shit.

>Gets raped by nomadic tribes countless times
>Even by the Japs
>Superior

The only thing chinks can proud is their ability to breed like roaches

They had respect for other civilized empires, and contempt for barbarians. Not all that different from Rome.

Yes, they were superior most of the time back then, and they still are the dominant power in Asia in case you haven't notice it. There were only 2 dynasties(Yuan and Qing) built by nomads among 13 unified dynasties totally, and they defeated Japs, made Japs sinicize themselves willingly, and kept them at bay for thousands of years until late 19th century, get your facts straight or back to /pol/.

Rome's professional and drilled army would've BTFO the Chinese mass horde of peasants. The Chinese didn't even have the emphasis on horse archery and heavy cavalry that the Iranians and Huns did, which were the only tactics Rome couldn't find an answer to.

(That and masses of unwashed Germans ambushing them in the forest)

>made them Japs Sinicized themselve
>be put to shame by a Westernized Japan

Really makes ya think

Ruling Persia and being Persian are two different things you mongoloid.

They were an east Iranian people, but not Persian. Conversely, both the Achaemenids and the Sassanids originated in Fars (southwest Iran), which is the Persian homelands.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parni

Yeah, but that still didn't "make them "not superior" before 19th century. They only lost their superiority after 19th century, but now they're the major power and superior than 90% of countries again. Also make ya think.....

indias boxed in by ocean on 2 sides mountains on two and one minor island, china has sea on one side, desert the other, and mountains subsequent, like india its own fishbowel of seperate territories by imagined borders only whilst europe has like 6 oceans a million rivers significNt multitude of islands from crete to cyprus to malta to svalbard to ireland and archipeligo and varying ranges and natural prescipices like atop the italian penensula and transylavanias mountain surrounded by more elevated natural barricades of nature that humanity overcame through trade war love and exploration. difficult yet resource abundent enough to the endevours requirements.

The army of the Latter Han was mostly professional volunteers not peasant conscripts.

I'd make an argument that the superior Chinese crossbow, compared favorably to even the Xiongnu bows, would be the central, pivotal piece of technological difference between the Chinese and Romans.

With its great range and its ability to penetrate virtually all known sorts of personal armor, presuming that the crossbow can penetrate the testudo, I'd argue that, all else being equal, a Roman legion would have to use either surprise, or tactics and terrain to close the distance and force a melee as soon as possible where they have the advantage.

The Han did have much more emphasis on cavalry than the Romans did, though. They needed to, because of the Xiongnu. The Han were able to muster over 140,000 horses for their campaign against the Xiongnu (which also showcases that great logistical capability wasn't exclusive to the Romans) and estimates pertaining to their total amount of horses go upwards to over 300,000. The Romans did not incorporate cavalry as heavily into their forces, and the majority of their cavalrymen, from what I recall, came from their Auxillae forces, and even then, did not number as much as what the Han could muster.

>Get raped by Germans.
>Never get the fuck back up again.

>Eastern Half gets TURK'D
>Never get the fuck back up again.

Kinda misinformation based conclusion. The era of peasant died with warring states. Once the Qin and later Han occupied the seat of central power, they professionalized and conscripts were given mandatory ~2 service training and they are to be called for duty when war arises, as well as them having to serve some x amount of time per year in their local home region. That was the main bulk, however a much more elite group of professional soldiers existed too. The shock cavalry troop which counted about 200K. The regular conscripted army was at around 600K. Mind you, this was at the height of their war against Xiongnu empire. Although Rome had 25-year term for their Legions, their average was around 10 years.

Their version of "conscript" is much more like than modern professional standing army than the idea of peasant conscript with no training and using randomly found weapons. Since they're required to fight until ~50ish year of age.

Far as historical records show, Han dynasty had monopolized the metallurgy industry and put that field to making weapons for the state military. I also believe each Han citizen were required to own weapons in their own home. Right to bear arms, more like mandatory arms bearing.

While on average Roman Legions might have training, equipment and experience, those alone won't break the Han at all.

Roman Army peaked at ~600K that was long after Han dynasty was over and I believe the Jin dynasty era was taking place.

During the Han-Xiongnu war, Roman army was ~90K during Phyrric War, around 150K(30K Legion) during First Punic War and ~130K during Second Punic War.

These numbers are just too few for Han-Rome clash.

What's next by your logic?
>Macedonians
>Not Hellenic
>Carthaginians
>Not Phoenician
>Iberians
>Not Celtic

>picking two of the goofiest looking actors for a historical war film

>Conquerors end up claiming themselves as your sucessors
>Still influence the world after collapsed
>The greatest empire of all time

>Can't overthrow conquerors to begin with.

>that sound effect at 1:18

ayyy lamoa

No. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luigi_Cadorna

Tbf, from their position they had a massive empire to the east and a massive empire to the west. Then potentially linking up and being friends could be catastrophic.

If you were them you'd lie your ass off too.

Almost did,but then muslims happened

So were romans,greeks and persians?

you know that green text applies to both empires

>Mongols take over
>becomes China anyway

>Manchus take over
>becomes China anyway

They had plenty of times to do it but before muslims there was "then Germanics happen"

if only Rome quit fucking around, absorb the Germanics, and smashed into Persia

this gosu

really I like to think the relation between Persia and Rome was a dynamic change from the ancient greek era.

that Rome is the big bad empire and Perisa is the plucky underdog that has to exploit their weaknesses and keep them at bay

Julius Caesar was on his way to do that, then he got assassinated by butthurt senators. Then Mark Anthony fucked up when he tried to do the same.

>China saw it as 'another China'.
It's such as classic chink attitude, it's hilarious.

What do you mean almost did? A far more competent Antony got absolutely ass-raped when he tried invading the Parthian Empire. I have severe doubts that even Caesar would've had an easy time given how dramatically different warfare waged by the Parthians were then anything he had fought.

Parthia is an Iranian province and people that are directly next to Pars. They are an Iranic people whose language, culture, and customs are also hugely influenced by the Persians and most of the "Seven Houses of Parthia" were actually Persian clans. The Parthians are to the Persians what the Scottish are to the English. They might as well be the same people.

Parthia share more with Persians than Scottish with English desu

Iberians are not celtic desu

it's not entirely false

>but now they're the major power and superior than 90% of countries again
LOL
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

The only reason they are a "major power" is because they have 1,5 billion people. They are still behind USA and EU in nominal GDP, despite having three times their population.

I know, it was just an example.

>adrian brody
>roman looking

should have picked him for a phonecian or persian

I'm certain it was actually entire parties with many a servants and bearers, but only the name of the chief of expedition was remembered in History.

real warfare wasnt fought outside of europe and the middle east in the ancient world, outside europe and the middle east it was staged / ceremonial combat, either a small pitched skirmish or two armies meet and then two champions from either side duel but don't kill each other

Germans larped as Romans in all the wrong ways. The Mongols and Manchu were mostly just an administration change.

The Persian won one fucking battle while the Romans destroyed the multiple times and sacked their capital 6 times. The only reason the Persians survived and didn't get conquered is because of the fact that when Rome met Parthia it was already way too large to do anymore absorbing of territories, especially a relatively large one like Persia.

>China never fought real warfare
This is the dumbest shit I've read yet in this thread.

>Phoenician
You would be surprised how well that would work. Pic very related.