Could this absolute madman have marched on Rome?

wewuz for sure.

WHERE IS DA WHITE WOMYNNNNN

Maybe
A lot like ancient egyptians we can be pretty much almost certain that they would look like modern Arabs.
But theres a chance that he was black. Theres at least a better chance of Hannibal being black than there is of Jesus.

Its a meme/We WUZISM at its worst. He was a Phoenician, meaning he was a Caucascoid who would've resembled other Mediterranean people and were not racially/ethnically at all related to sub-Saharan Africans. Meaning he'd look more like a "white" man then a black man. Probably pretty tanned/olive-skinned but unlikely to be super swarthy like Arabians or Levant Semites.

Being a Carthaginian noble, there was a 99% chance that he was of Phoenician descent. Phoenicians are most closely related to modern Lebanese people.

it is hard to tell for sure, but he was most likely not black

the majority of the original settlers of carthage were phoenicians, an ethnic group originating from the northern levant, who navigated the Mediterranean to such an extent unrivaled during their prime
they settled in parts of southern france, spain, and most notably, north africa
however, black africans (numidians) were a relavent population that intermingled with carthaginians to the point that they were the main source of cavalry for their empire

and how exactly were you planning on defeating rome without ever stepping foot on italy?

He wouldn't be black, he'd be tanned at best
The hair checks out though

So if that is true then his portrayal as black would be an insult to him.

>implying Hannibal was a nigger

That's the point of the WE WUZ

If he saw himself portrayed as black he would probably become absolutely enraged. He was very nationalistic.

Picrelated is what Hannibal most likely looked like.

North Africa had to be colonized. There was nobody living there. If Hannibal even knew of blacks he would probably think of them as little more than animals.

What are you talking about? Hannibal defeated the entire Roman Army in Italy, and killed by himself 6 consoles and lots of the higehestranking Roman officials.
Rome was never conquered only because Hannibal never chose to do so, camping instead for 5 years (the reason for this behaviour has been debated for 2300 years now) before having to be forced to return to Africa in order to defeat Publius Scipio.

Rome was never conquered because it was strategically impossible. But anyway, what did it accomplish?

The thing about war is that it doesnt matter the battles you win, but what is it that you get out of them that is important.

What did he get out of Rome?

>Hannibal defeated the entire Roman Army in Italy,
No he didn't you moron.

>Rome was never conquered only because Hannibal never chose to do so, camping instead for 5 years (the reason for this behaviour has been debated for 2300 years now) before having to be forced to return to Africa in order to defeat Publius Scipio.
Utica was 13 years after Cannae, not 5. And in between you had lots of Roman attacks, not just in Italy, but all over Carthaginian possessions and allies in what's now France and Spain.

>Rome was never conquered because it was strategically impossible. But anyway, what did it accomplish?

This is something you're just saying with no real proof for it. During his camping in Capua Rome had virtually no army, and their military high ranks had to be rebuilt cause so many generals and consuls died either in battle or by assassination.

>The thing about war is that it doesnt matter the battles you win, but what is it that you get out of them that is important.
>What did he get out of Rome?

He never managed to finish his job because he met harsh opposition with the high tanks of the Carthaginese establishment (both military and state). Can you really blame him for it?

Keep in mind that the Romans were fully aware of the fact that they missed a bullet just out of sheer luck, and it has been an historic topoi since then.

He simply woudnt be able to camp outside of Rome for that long man. With so many men how long would it take to starve a city with internal gardens?

That is why it was strategically impossible. He didnt have the time.

>his is something you're just saying with no real proof for it. During his camping in Capua Rome had virtually no army, and their military high ranks had to be rebuilt cause so many generals and consuls died either in battle or by assassination.
Not him, but proof is easy to find. Over the next 2 years, Hannibal would make 3 attempts to take the far less fortified town of Nola, and fail every time. If he couldn't crack Nola, what the hell makes you think he could crack Rome? And by the time that Hannibal is basing himself in Capua in 212, Rome has a 40,000 man force to throw at him AND keep forces elsewhere in Italy. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Capua

>He never managed to finish his job because he met harsh opposition with the high tanks of the Carthaginese establishment (both military and state). Can you really blame him for it?
[citation seriously fucking needed, because not only is there no direct evidence for it, it makes no fucking sense, since it would take months under perfect conditions even to inform the Carthaginian Senate what was going on, let alone hear their reply, and furthermore ignores the literally hundreds of thousands of troops they dispatched to support him]

the more important question is diddy doo nuffin?

he was undeniably not black

Arabs weren't in Carthage at that time, you fucking dolt. He was Phoenician.

I reckon the Scipio was better at tactics and strategy desu

>we wuz carthage
>we wuz hannibal
>we wuz christians

Mate he was Phoenician. He probably looked like a fucking hairy, smelly Arab.

Proof?

>the constant media exposure makes me imagine hannibal as booker T

Phoecians do not look like arabs

fucking this
I cant believe Carthaginian apologists still exist
Yeah, but Scipio doesnt have the same flair as "that guy who fucking crossed a mountain range with elephants and fought a useless invasion he had no hope of winning just because he could"
North Africa was colonized by Phoenicians, and those colonies became Carthage. A noble of a Phoenician colony is very likely going to be Phoenician.
There was a chance he was black since Numidians made a not insignificant part of the military, but a very slim one at best.

>WE WANT ROME SUCKA
>SCIPIO, WE COMIN FOR YOU NIGGA

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Does this look like a black person to you?

Yes. 100% pure african nignog.

He could have but that would have been the end of it. His army was in no way prepared to lay siege to a city like Rome. Also there were several Roman field armies in the north that would have been recalled to relieve any siege. Once they arrived on top of Hannibal's army it would be all over.

I'm asking for proof Phoenicians looked like Arabs.

good god are you retarded?
Its a fucking fact that they are descended from the middle east/levant people who were fucking Arab
Heres the god damn bibliography
Zalloua, Pierre A.; et al. (2008). "Identifying Genetic Traces of Historical Expansions: Phoenician Footprints in the Mediterranean". American Journal of Human Genetics. 83 (5): 633–642. doi:10.1016/j.ajhg.2008.10.012. PMC 2668035Freely accessible. PMID 18976729.

looks like a spic

So all Semitic people looked exactly the same? Where is the proof in that?

oh i get it
you're trolling

I ask for proof when you said they all looked like Arabs. You then didn't give me an answer and just listed a random book. So I repeat my question, where is the evidence and proof how ancient Phoenicians looked like compared with modern Arabs?

its not my fault that you are refusing to do the research i laid out for you
But, the study covered in the journal tested people in the levant for traces of Phoenician DNA and found that these people in the modern day Arab world were the closest link. Meaning that it would be ludicrous to assume the Phoenicians were anything else.
Since you seem like an afrocentrist type, i have a question for you. What proof do you have that suggests they were black?

no he could not have marched on Rome, which would involve months of having to construct siege equipment and secure a reliable supply of food which he couldn't do with ~40,000 men.

What's misunderstood though is that capturing Rome was not the strategy, but to weaken the Italian state's trust in Rome and have them defect to Carthage, stripping Rome of its power base and forcing a surrender.

Hannibal was initially successful in this, and secured the second largest Italian state of Capua to defect to Carthage after Cannae, placing Rome in a difficult political position with the rest of their holdings.

in the end not enough states defected to Carthage, and those that did were usually taken back by the legions within 1-3 years, with Capua being retaken 2 years after defecting.

With him failing to gain support form the surrounding states, he was essentially just a minor nuisance to the legions in Italy until he was recalled back to defend Carthage.

>ruler of Carthage

That's not Hannibal's fault. It was his fellow generals who could not hold to carthaginian clay in Spain and by 206BC, they had lost of it.

Why do you think the numidians betrayed their carthaginian allies at Zama by providing shitloads of cavalry to Scipio? It was because they were broke and couldn't pay denbts.

Hannibal would have won if Hasdrubal & Mago beat Scipio in Iberia. Sadly for him, they did not.

Capua really ended up being a drain from what I read. And caused unease with other italian city states because they were afraid of Rome 2.0

>ywn see hannibal conquering the whole gaul and germania

>Over the next 2 years, Hannibal would make 3 attempts to take the far less fortified town of Nola, and fail every time. If he couldn't crack Nola, what the hell makes you think he could crack Rome?
This

Hannibal had shit-tier siege engineers and couldn't afford standing in one place too long because fabian tactics of attrition & sabotage. Plus he couldn't just set up camp in the middle of latium when all the neighboring cities were fiercely loyal to Rome and would harrass Hannibal's lines of supply/communication.
It would have been a death by a 1000cuts. Hence why he had to keep moving.

And when Syracuse was retaken in 212BC and Capua in 211BC, he was desperate for reinforcements from Iberia - which never truly came in the necessary numbers because that iberian side of the war was largely dominated by the romans.
Case in point, Hasdrubal fled the region in 208BC and had to make the same journey as Hannibal through the alps to reach him (roman fleet embargo) and Mago (who was originally sent to assist hasdrubal) was forced to do the same in 206BC, fleeing first to the Balearic islands and only reaching northern Italy in 205BC with 15-20k men.

Fabian strategy was certainly not glamorous and almost cowardly, in the sense they did not face the main threat head-on, but it did fucking work.

>since Numidians made a not insignificant part of the military
Numidians were not even black either, they were tribes of confederate berbers from north algeria. Wewuzzers literally lay claim to every north african ethnicities, it's fucking disgusting.

really?
Weird because normally i always question when people do WE WUZ shit but i just always assumed Numidians were black.

Do you by any chance have a link or something i can reference in the future? This is crazy i had no idea.

Fabian strategy definately was the absolute best way to fight Hannibal, but frankly even if the Romans had engaged Hannibal in the open more times i cant imagine the war would have gone any differently.
Hannibal never would have had the manpower to take a significant Roman city and would never be capable of laying seige to a city anyway.
He doomed Carthage to defeat when he demanded that he satisfy his ego by embarking on a useless invasion

Hard to find evidence one way or another.

Apparently they are related to the Masaesyli and Massylii ethnics groups, which should be closely related to the Kabyle berbers as well.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabyle_people#Genetics

I think that there is no absolute true way to determine the genetics of the numidians apart from DNA testing skulls from sites of the region. And I'm not aware of any extensive archeological studies in that field. I think most historians just take to face value that north africans were north africans, just like egyptians were egyptians with little variation throughout the ages.

Really, the onus is on the wewuzzers to prove that the north africans were NOT not africans.

There's asterix evidence backing the wewuzzers tho

"phonecians wuz aryans"
or
"phonecians WUZ NIGGAS AYO"

>. During his camping in Capua Rome had virtually no army,
Holy shit.
No.

Every single citizen 16-46 who wasn't crippled was either a veteran or waiting to be drafted, and as such was a trained soldier with weapons, needingly only to be integrated into a unit and trained to act as a body.

the city literally had two legions behind the walls, 10,000 men who survived cannae in the field, and multiple armies afield. You are an idiot.

This. They were white Nordic Aryans like the rest of the levantine people's

Well obviously if they lived in Africa they wuz black, nigga.

You don't. Carthage should not have gone to war in the first place. They had zero chance of victory.

A Carthaginian expedition actually got far enough south in Africa to see gorillas.

They thought they were the local inhabitants, and didn't really get why they wouldn't trade or talk.

They really didn't give two shits about the appearance of a new group of people so long as they'd trade.

You still haven't answered my question, moron. On top of that why are you asserting I'm claiming they looked like blacks? I never even asserted or implicated that, so what the fuck kind of crack are you smoking? I asked you very SPECIFICALLY why you claimed all Phoenicians and by proxy, why all Semitic people in Antiquity would have to look exactly like modern day Arabs.

How hard is this to understand?

>afrocentrist type

You are super stupid.

i gave you proof
heres a link since you clearly were too stupid to look for it yourself.
>why all semetic people in antiquity would have to look exactly like modern Arabs
Well its pretty safe to assume that you look at least a little like the people you are descended from no? By your logic there is no reason i would have to assume that the Chinese werent white, because why should ancient Chinese people look like modern chinese people?
I did answer you original question, which was a demand for proof regarding ancestry of the phoenicians. Since you are clearly too lazy, or more likely, too stupid to find it yourself here it is.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2668035/
>why are you asserting im claiming they looked like Blacks?
fair enough if thats not what you're claiming but i fail to see why you would completely disregard an academic study that conclusively answers your question unless you were going full tin foil hat.

After the first Punic war that was pretty much impossible. Rome was clearly the stronger nation and Carthage could only hope to hold on to what it had and pray for a cataclysm of biblical proportions to befall Rome.
Instead they just decided to go balls to the wall and go out in a blaze of glory

>They thought they were the local inhabitants, and didn't really get why they wouldn't trade or talk.
Did they get attacked by gorillas?

They actually attacked the Gorillas.
The story of Hanno the navigator is pretty wild.
The gorillas fled up to hill or cliff or something and threw stones and shit at the Carthaginians who were too slow to catch up with them.
They attempted to capture three females and take them back to Carthage but they were fucking gorillas so they put up a struggle and tore the ropes the Carthaginians were using, so they were killed and skinned.

They got cocky after the Barcids conquered Spain. They assumed that with their new wealth and alliances with the celtiberian tribes, they would have enough assets to beat the romans. Plus Hannibals passed made secret deals with the cisalpinian Insubers and Boii tribes to give him shelter/support once he crossed the Alps.

It was not a bad plan if they managed to keep the romans focused on Hannibal. Sadly the romans quickly decided to ignore Hannibal and to go after the new carthagenian source of wealth - iberia.

Also I believe the carthage ruling families were not initially warm to Hannibal's plan to siege Seguntum. But they eventually caved in, and rallied behind him when the Romans demanded that Hannibal was sent to him to be trialed for this crime. I think they were mostly divided between one faction which wanted to get on with things, and another which was still butthurt about losing sardinia & corsica in 238BC.

No, at first glance they just thought they were niggers and wanted to trade with them.

Kek, which primary source states this? I wouldn't mind giving it a quick read

>ruler of Carthage
This triggers me more than the kangs maymay.

The Roman armies were ready to put up a fight.

Got confused, no mention of trade. They did think they were just really fucked up locals though.

Comes form the periplus and is mentioned in literally every source.

pic related is not what "hannibal most likely looked like". That's a statue created centuries after he lived.

Hannibal would most likely resemble Arab or mizrahi jews today. He wouldn't be white or black african.

Okay thanks user

>a rude description of people
are the exact words he uses to describe them

>YOU MUST BE BLACK OR WHITE
How do we stop the Eternal WeWuzzian?

>useless invasion he had no hope of winning
thats not what the Romans thought...also, as this thread shows, the options that were available to Hannibal are basically unknown. If anyone tells you know Hannibal could or couldn't have besieged Rome/realistically defeated the romans, their lying.

This thread has shitloads of posts explaining that Hannibal couldn't even siege Nola and lacked the necessary reinforcements + conditions to stage a long siege of the city.

You're just another butthurt hannibalfag

He was a true kang, till he was stopped by the other legendary African general of the time...

Why are kangz killing each other?

:(

>nordic
>aryan
Choose one
t. Persiaboo