Why don't socialists understand economics?

Neoliberalism has been the greatest force for good in recent history.

why don't capitalist understand planning?

>implying

/leftypol/ arrives in force with his hastily saved + pasted cuntgraphs

>planning
that where all of it fails, it's like you'd put a commite of bureaucrats to change people's feelings

Lol why do people earn different amounts of money?, also donate to my patreon

T. Karl Marx

>blue collar jobs still existing
Wew lad

Are people going to stop shitting?
If not, there will be plumbers.
Until there are robot plumbers that is.

Marx completely neglects to take into account the value of the system created by the owner of the means of production that allows the labor of workers to be as valuable as it is.

>denying actual economic data because it makes you feel bad
christ

Or foreign plumbers working for cheap. Which probably will happen

I agree, that's why we need anarcho-communism which provides more freedom for society than anything else.

>America is the world

Build a wall.

Can anyone explain to me what are Cuba's problems? The one I see mentioned more often are the police state/lack of free speech (and that is not an inherent problem with communism)

>NEETs are welfare queens or living off their mom's cashier salary
>they rile against the system that prevents them for starving

wall can't stop the ride that neoliberalism started

Well if NEETs had any actual brains or skills they wouldn't be NEETs.

By supporting individuals and giving them the freedom to not work, you're giving them the freedom (as opposed to the requirement) to work.

Plus, it's capitalism that has always claimed that all people are inherently equal and to a large extent interchangeable. Notice how rich capitalists are most likely to think they got that way by creative thinking and hard work, and that anyone could have ended up in their shoes if they had worked as hard.

no, labour is value, teh value of buisnessees is the value of the labour they control, the value of goods is the value of labour involved in prodcuing them

teh value of labour is only increased through technological means, that are leveraged by the calitalists to allow greater exploitation

under workers self managements the value of labour would not be less, but more, as there is no exploitation

>yuropoors
Meanwhile you Americans are literally living in poverty.

>farming without technology is more valuable than farming with it
Explains a lot about the Communist countries

Can you not read or are you just retarded?

all their morals were conjured up on the spot to give themselves an excuse to steal

Francis builds "means of production" with his own effort and without exploiting anyone and the socialists show up, accuse him of being an evil capitalist and confiscate it

>Francis employs coercive measures to force others to build means of production, and then claims their labor as his own
FTFY

>trying to seriously have an argument on a Tasmanian Handjob Afficionado Treehouse

He's both and you're a fool.

>workers self managements
Worker self management culminated in the collapse of the Yugoslav economy and subsequent wars that followed.

Of all things that led to the fall of Yugoslav, workers self management barely counts

>No info but percentages with lines
>Muh 1%

Great bait "infographic". literally kys yuropoor. Murica is still #1.

Feel free to fact check it if you want. Who knows, maybe you'll be the guy to actually disprove it after all these years.

It is THE reason everything happened. Flare of nationalism my ass. It was orchestrated by politicians who wanted to turn the economic trouble and use the "nationalist" boasting, to harvest the scorn of the public, to redirect it from economic issues and to get themselves more power.
Even Zizek, da top internet commie says that.

books.google.rs/books?hl=en&lr=&id=aPsH7sx7_PUC&oi=fnd&pg=PR9&dq=labus self management&ots=PrJAyjZelC&sig=RJx-BDuq4mwaFBfkBUmubGLOd00&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
balkanologie.revues.org/681#ftn5
And here's the capitalist perspective

Fact check what? Income levels that vary with jobs, Taxs reports that vary per year, or household income that obviously varies per household. What metric is that graph based of off?

...

I seriously can't believe that people think people should be paid different amounts of money. What the hell makes a doctor deserve more money than a truck driver?

His stance is that the first thing to disregard when talking about the disintegration of Yugoslavia is the notion embedded in the Western public of so called ancient hatreds.
It was simply a move for the communist Nomenklatura to salvage itself in the wave of dissatisfaction with the failing economy, to harness that dissatisfaction and turn it into nationalism.

Why can this board only talk in false dichotomies?

>lel bro u are either literally an an-cap ball meme or a stalinist college kid

That's wealth distribution in the US. Have you been living under a rock for the last 5 years or something?

This

>tfw to intelligent to not be a centrist neoliberal

>neoliberal
>centrist

Kill yourself neoliberal
I'm a radical central centro-centrist.

They hate freedom

>move the poverty line down to $1.50
>lift millions out of poverty

ah ok

>neo liberal
Fuck you

That's what China did and claimed Communism lifted them out of poverty.

>t. child labor and sweatshop activist

>Anno Domini -2017+4034
>Not being a reactionary neocentrivist paleocentro-anarchofascist conservative liberal centrist

>ANNVS MMDCCCLXX
>not being a pro-patrician oligarchic central-left anarchic antilibertarian radical socialist

Capitalists don't understand economics either, yet they make profits off people's wage slavery.

Austrian macroeconomics have not once predicted accurately how an economy will go, and are an American political invention used as a tool to manipulate through long term debt other people's countries (see IMF in Korea, Argentina, and Greece)

Also I suggest for everyone to watch this documentary if they want to understand what is mean by Neo-liberalism in historico-economic terms beyond the propaganda they Austrian-Chicago school "academics" put out for mass consumption:

youtube.com/watch?v=uh44qlii6X4

youtube.com/watch?v=XrKdpyUcC-E

Did you mean exploitation of technology or of workers. That's probably the point of confusion.

But we understand economics

Source: Cuba's government (Yes, even international organization's statistics are provided by the local govs)

lmao

...

>Brain dead millenials
>saying you should live in America's trash alley
>land practically given away at close to free
>only people living in big cities work two jobs

wew you don't know much about the USA do ya lad

Corporatism requires government intervention to legally legitimize a corporation.

>It is another right wing neoliberal pretending to be center
Either a mark of a moron and an insidious liar

Usually but not always

Everybody is poor and hungry, and the young girls have to prostitute themselves to survive. It's Africa tier

Even right wing organisations like the IMF and the OECD now admit that too much inequality has a negative effect on economic growth.

This is a bit cheesy but it is a good point, the choice isn't between gommunism and hard neoliberalism.

The idea of capitalism sounds good on the surface. Everybody gets what they earn. But that isn't quite the whole picture. Not only does it also depend on scarcity, which can easily be defended, as scarcity just means, that your input is valued in relative terms of how useful it actually is. But your income also depends on one more factor, your ability to monetize upon your skills. This means that people who are really bad at monetization might have something great to offer but get jack shit. Or someone who is great at monetization has shit to offer and comes out quite wealthy.

The solution that the market applies is to produce a whole economic class which does nothing but monetize the skills of others. PR-Workers, Bankers, Consultants, etc. All these people don't actually do anything, they do not give any input to society, they simply are needed to make the system function.

The reason why socialism generally fails is because there is no such class. A class purely dedicated to making the system work. I would rather ask the question wether a socialist society could even support such a class, or if a capitalist society is the only one able to do so.

Capitalism is shit. Socialism is shit. Stop this stupid dichotomy there are better solutions out there. (I'm not saying I have personal knowledge of such a solution, as I have only my own preferences and opinions, I am saying there are better solutions and we should look for them.)

When we decide on the system we want to employ we have to first ask ourselves what we desire from that system. What our goal is. Do we want mad dosh and fast paced advancement? Then capitalism is the answer. Do we want equality? Then we probably will have to make some sacrifices as a whole and come up with a better solution than socialism.

>"children shouldnt have the option to work, they should be forced to work on their parents farm or as child sex slaves"

t. "progressive"

Do the people who sperg about "muh blue collar jobs" like plumbing or electricians not understand that the only reason those careers make the money they currently do (which is actually much lower than redditors and new fags believe, many are unemployed), is because of a "limited" supply of people in those trades? If everyone stops going to college and just becomes plumbers then plumbers will no longer be in high demand which will in turn lower those wages....why is this concept so difficult?

If decentralization is practical then democratizing businesses and profit sharing would succeed.

>they do not give any input to society
>they are needed to make the system function
>socialism fails is because there is no such class
>they do not give any input to society
Does not compute.