Glorified cheerleader

The discussion was of Joan of Arc, not Jesus.

The trial transcripts still survive that describe her in detail and record what she said...

ITT: butthurt anglocucks

why are the french so defensive about their military slut?

she's a saint of the one and true catholic church, you fuckface no-toothed britcuck.

>most verified
But that's literally hitler

...

Je me demande qui peut être derrière ce poste.

>frog catholicuck being this mad
lmao @ ur life

>woman
>doing anything worthwhile
doubt.jpg

Wtf mon pote? You know she was little more than a mascot. She got turned ibto an ubermeme during the romantic nationalist movement period.

kek

kek, angry anglos that are still butthurt that she sucessfully fought them off every time they tried to rape her. She died a perfectly chaste saint.

I want to _____ Britanny

Who is that mongrel? She is cute but something seems off. Like I can cut the autism with a knife off.

She is 1/4 black

Fucking quadroons, man.

Purify

>Joan’s female sexuality inevitably became part of the chemistry that drew men to her -- but in a way that was the opposite of the norm. Her squire d’Aulon helped her into her armor every day that she was in the field and it was he who dressed her wounds. He testified that he often saw her naked legs and breasts and that". . . she was a young girl, beautiful and shapely. ..’ D’Alençon said ". .. I slept with Joan and the soldiers ‘on the straw,’ and sometimes I saw Joan get ready for the night, and sometimes I looked at her breasts, which were beautiful." Yet -- all of Joan’s men -- Jean de Metz, Bertrand de Poulengy, d’Alençon, d’Aulon, Thibault; the men who slept on the ground beside her and saw her in her lovely nakedness, were adamant that they never felt carnal lust for her. Thibault elaborated that while they sometimes felt a carnal urge for Joan, they "never dared give way to it.." They saw a saintly goodness in her and it was shame that prevented them from making advances on her. They felt an exalted pure love for her that they could not bear to sully with carnal words much less deeds.98

>De Metz testified that though he slept on the ground right next to Joan he "was in such awe of her that I would not have dared go near her; and I tell you on my oath that I never had any desire or carnal feelings for her." Yet, only a little bit later in his testimony, he proclaimed "... I was on fire with what she said, and with a love for her which was, as I believe, a divine love." Jean Barbin testified that "The soldiers considered her a saint, "99 It is no great stretch to suggest that: When young men encounter a beautiful woman who has won their respect to an extraordinary degree, their usual sexual lust may become sublimated into a devotion and loyalty that is passionate but chaste. Joan had the power to make thousands of armed men love her, not as an object of romantic desire but as the living focus of their hunger to serve a higher cause.

>Whenever Joan rose in her stirrups to shout "Let all who love me -- follow me!"100 over all the din, she was exploiting a special relationship between leader and led that is unique in all history. Ultimately, it was this astonishing ability of Joan’s to make an army of soldiers chastely love her-- to the point that they would willingly face death in battle for her -- that empowered her to bodily shove history into a new path.

Source:
stjoan-center.com/military/stephenr.html

she was an extraordinary person: militarily capable, organically pious, simple, brace, brilliant, overawing to lords and hardened vets

Friendly reminder her bff was a serial killer of children

I expect people on Veeky Forums to be more well versed in history than this.

Jeanne was smarter than all fuck and a hardcore iron-ass. She never killed anyone as far as we know and rarely "locked swords" in battle (being a commander and all) but the trancsripts of her hearing show she's the most clever person in the room by half, and her doing batshit crazy shit like jumping out of tower windows and insisting on being the last person to leave the field and going back into battle with a fucking neck wound show she's psycho enough to not be some mere village waif.

I don't know that she could beat you up but that's really irrelevant when her well-placed artillery is blowing a hole in your ass.

She's a far cry from the holy warrior she is in anime and games, but to claim she was just some mascot is to ignore the very facts written by people who were trying to have her killed at the time.

Your first mistake was to expect anyone here to know anything at all about history.

>believing that some peasant teenage girl is even physically capable of all that shit

t. frog

I mean even the people who hated her never denied it. The tower escape attempt was recorded by the fucking Brugundians.

There are extensive contemporary records about her that show these things are true. The only argument against it is unsupported doubt; between the two, I'm going to pick the option that's actually backed up by something.

Sometimes crazy shit happens, man.

I expect some kind of base knowledge on a subject at least

Or, well, I'd like to be able to.

The people who attested to all this were either her military opponents or nobles who had no reason to lie and frankly should have been embarrassed by the fact they were out-led by a peasant woman, but they all testified that they respected her as a comrade and equal. That is so far out of bounds of what was normal at that time that you have no choice but to just accept it: she was miraculous

All the actual historians or anyone with a vague clue got chased off months ago. It's all just memes now.

>The people who attested to all this were either her military opponents

Sources, especially church shit at those times, is highly likely to be bullshit. I mean, if we are to believe church sources, Nero burned down rome while playing a fucking lute.

>nobles who had no reason to lie

There's always a reason to lie, especially when the tide of war is turning, as was the case in the Hundred year war. Don't wanna get on Charle's bad noble list, do you?

>>miraculous
Nah. Even if all the shit posted above is true, which I doubt, that would just make her strong, determined and smart. There are always strong, determined and smart people around. She was just in the right place at the right time.

Good thing the main sources are legal transcript's that are word for word recordings of what was said then?

Yeah I'm sure the English church purosely made up all that shit with her dickslapping all their inquisitors in theology just because. Especially since all that shit got those motherfuckers excommunicated later. They just loved making themselves look like fucking heretics, it was a fucking pastime for them.

>legal transcript

god forbid if legal transcripts were ever falsified or tampered with.

there are countless historians who pointed out the problems with """""sources"""""" of the whole thing

There exists no evidence that I'm aware of that any of it is untrue, and significant evidence that it is true.

That said, I don't think any of it requires the hand of God or anything.

Yeah? Name one "problem" with the accuracy as suggested by one historian.

Yes, it's clearly she heard the message from God.

How fucking retarded are you?

>Sometimes crazy shit happens, man.

Jeanne is a legend, stands to reckon she was a pretty legendary person. Some people were just the right personality and potential in just the right place.

King Charles VII of France said she knew secrets about him that he had never told anyone (he claimed this on record)

What is the logical reason for that?
He could have just said that she supported him if he wanted to buttress his legitimacy by association with Joan.

>"I'm very much afraid that precious little of what we French have been taught in school about Joan of Arc is true," said Roger Caratini, an eminent academic, historian, mathematician and psychoanalyst and the author of Joan of Arc: from Domrémy to Orléans, the stake to the legend.

>"She was, it seems, almost entirely the creation of France's desperate need for a patriotic mascot in the 19th century. The country wanted a hero, the myths of the revolution were altogether too bloody, and France more or less invented the story of its patron saint. The reality is, sadly, a little different."

Kys dumb nigger. A legal transcript is good evidence of God talking to a human being

>What is the logical reason for that?

Of course he'll say that to prove his Divine legitimacy to the throne, especially when there's huge competition for it.

Anyway, read some actual history books instead of wiki articles

M8 where did I suggest supernatural powers were involved?

I don't believe she was truly inspired by God but it's blatantly true that she was sharp as fuck. None of the records record anything supernatural, just her claims of it.

There's no argument in what you posted m8, I want the actual problem, not just an appeal to authority.

And I'm not sugesting she was supernatural.

>M8 where did I suggest supernatural powers were involved?

you implied that it's true because some noble or king said that. you also implied supernatural shit when you wrote that Joanne knew something about king Charles that nobody else knew, which is pretty fucking supernatural.

She supposedly cheerled right on the front lines, though, which is quite badass. She was a religious nutcase, though, so I'm not a fan.

>jesus
>established and historically verified

by jupiter's stone, what a fool

I wrote neither of those things. I'm this guy: What evidence do you have to suggest that the English church slandered themselves in these records, which several members were later excommunicated for? If you can't present some sort of breadcrumb, I'm going to have to assume you're just basing this on what you want to be true rather than any sort of logical reasoning.

>psychoanalyst
>repeating the academic "people in the old days were retarded and just made everything that's in the historical sources up" meme

Lel ok

How about you find one actual piece of evidence other than speculation to support your contention that its all made up

She was a witch and she got burned. What else is there to say about her?

>i don't know how claims work

you fucking dumb nigger, you're claiming that some girl talked to god and some king said unverifiable shit like "she knows something about me" that's literally makes it impossible to even know what this "secret" was and here you are telling me to disprove all this bullshit? you're the one claiming this shit, and your sources clearly don't support any of these traditional claims of the Joanne myth

If you said something more realistic, I'd accept it. But you literally insist on every aspect of the traditional frog narrative

The contemporary Pope disagreed with you.

Did he really say that in between raping children?

>Calixtus III
>Raping children

U wot

Why do Britfats get so triggered over Jeanne and Napoleon, /hist/?

So we can all agree:

Jeanne probably didn't talk to God (technically archangels) but probably did blast a bunch of Brugundian buttholes.

Requesting fanfic

You mean BLEACH her?

Very well done

I laughed

Poor girl. Everyone thought she was too pure, they wouldn't even dare make a move on her, and then she fell into English custody where she had to defend herself against rape attempts every day.

A fanfic or even better art about a sexually frustrated Jeanne being saintzoned by all the men in France would be great.

No I mean turn her into a good woman. The idea of taking the bad (or slutty) girl and making a nice, honest woman out of her. You could say it's the reverse of the whole "taming the bad boy" thing and as equally hopeless.

...

She was really well versed in the effective use of artillery and using it to frightening effectiveness and that's likely a situation where her age and her status helped her. As a commoner she had no compunction against listening to those who built and fired the cannons, themselves commoners, on how best to use them. Likewise being young and not having the preconceived notions of how war was fought allowed her flexibility in her use of them. She was, according to pretty much everyone who served with her, a master in "conducting war" i.e. ordering troops, placement of artillery, all of that stuff.

Her only real downfall was that she was very aggressive which could help her (if Joan wanted you to capitulate and had the cannons, troops and supplies to back her you pretty much capitulated on the spot) or hinder her (she kept up the aggression even when limited in those things which is what led to her capture).

I mean we have tons of primary sources that attest to her skill as a commander, soldier and overall leader. I don't really see any reason to doubt them.

Same reason they hate the Germans and dismiss the American Revolution as "just some squabble".

>His reputation as historian was severely weakened by his work on Napoleon Bonaparte; in his efforts to demonstrate the negative influence and barbaric nature of Napoleon he was critisised to not always use the information correctly. He is part of the group of historians that are "compilers" that is to say they do not work from historical sources but from biographies and scholarly work already existant.
He's about on par with a Veeky Forumsfag making GLORIFIED CHEERLEADER threads because of shit he saw on Wikipedia and seems to be the Armand White of French history.

...

>Jeanne actually sat for a portrait during her lifetime but we will never know what she actually looked like because a bunch of retarded peasants burned it during their shitfit over the nobility

I am forever mad

Why are you so triggered that ol' Joan's being disrespected frog?

She both received messages from the Divine and blasted a bunch of Burgundian buttholes

I'm more triggered by idiots who make completely unsupported statements purely to protect their national pride

t. not even French

Eh. To be fair, I can't prove she didn't.

Hey there Christcuck.

What do you expect? This board is really down to Niggers, pol, leftypol, Christfags, trolls, contrarians,
and the trolled going We Wuz/Dindu Nuffin/My fees fees/Whatever now.

She was probably a qt 3.14 because people didn't believe God talked to ugly people

You have so much to learn.
Here.
youtube.com/watch?v=Y4YmJRPCyZA

Once a hoe always a hoe

Pretty much all depictions of her say she was beautiful but there's not nearly enough about what she actually looked like outside that appraisal.

We can only discern her looks from the description of her soldiers and companions but these accounts were written by men so they're not very detailed other than that she had long shapely legs and nice juicy tits.

think again faggot

thanks for stating the obvious, reddit.

If talking about history on Veeky Forums is reddit then reddit me the fuck up

I'm aware. I'm also a hopeless romantic.

trotting out overstated common knowledge on this board and using vernacular which includes "hardcore iron-ass" is what makes you reddit

Reminder that Based Drawfag Joan is best Joan

>As a commoner she had no compunction against listening to those who built and fired the cannons, themselves commoners, on how best to use them
This cannot be understated, prior to the 20th century (and in some cases will into it) the commonsense idea of actually getting feedback from folks engaged in a particular craft, combat or otherwise, was pretty foreign. It's the simplest thing to do and has turned plenty of otherwise nondescript commoners into high ranking officers and occasionally emperor or party general secretary.
There's a tacit admittance in Mao's writings that he mostly didn't innovate on shit all, he asked soldiers and warlords how they fight and then codified it. It was merely the organized application of what had been a disorganized body of knowledge.

Clearly thhat shit needed to be stated, look at the fucking thread

Veeky Forums has no time for uncontroversial historiography. Debate here centres on the cutting edge discussion of whether Jeanne in fact fit the "cheerleader" archetype, with fields of study including

>her cup size and breast firmness
>the ratio between her hips and waist
>the manner of her appearance and style

Well, thanks to some angry Frogs we don't know any of that shit

what is the name of this painting

Jeanne d'Arc by Albert Lynch

She unironically gave birth to the Antichrist. Their opponents only became English after they were driven out of Anjou, Normandy, Aquitaine, and "Brittany".

She was french, whaddaya think?

She was a virgin you fuckwit, read the trial reports.