Lutheranism

Faith is what saves us. Good works is precceded by faith.

So once I get my faith I can stop doing good works? So why does the bible say faith without works is dead?

The idea that spooks are bad is a spook.

Faith is what saves us? I thought it was God's grace which saved us.

Having faith is more than just believing. Faith without works is dead means that if you don't act like how a Christian should "good works" that's evident that you lack faith.

the idea of spooks not being bad is a spook

We receive grace through faith. Hence the term " be grace alone, THROUGH faith alone"

So with faith comes works, meaning that works are required in all but name. Meaning "faith alone" is a sham because faith by definition is complete trust or confidence in someone or something. It has nothing to do with conduct.

The idea that spooks are bad is a spook.
If spooks are bad then the claim that "spooks are bad" is bad.
The idea that "spooks are bad" is therefore either wrong or bad.
QED

your perspective: conduct = faith
other perspective: faith -> conduct

Works are not required to get saved because salvation would be impossible without it, are you gonna try to go your entire life without sinning once and live a perfect life? No, so God gives us his grace, which we revive through faith. Good works are just a neat after effect of being saved.

that followed no logic whatsoever. congratulations on achieving a higher level of shitposting.

Face it buddy. You can do all the works in the world and have no personal faith, and have all faith in the world and do no works. Works and faith are not mutual. Faith is a feeling. Works are a tangible action. Even if that's praying.

But, one can only come to faith in Christ through the grace of God and that which we have faith in is, itself, God's grace.

I believe that you believe that.

Elaborate? I dident quite understand what you said

then it is also your fate to be beaten.

It is grace—God's love, "the greatest of these [faith, hope, love] is love"—that comes first, prior to faith. It is only because of that grace that one can have faith or do the good works. God's grace is the most important aspect—faith and works are the means by which we accept the purification that comes with grace and bring salvation.

huh?

That brings up the argument about free will and predestination. I don't know if we choose to have faith and then with that faith we receive grace. Or if God has an elect people that he bestows his Grace upon, I'm not sure.

You're wrong tho.

I'd say that (a) faith and works are inseparable from each other, and (b) that there is an acceptance by the individual of God's grace. By accepting the medicine of grace, we no longer have the disease of sin attacking our body (the status of being a faithful adherent) and then we begin to heal the damage wrought by sin through our works. It is important to note that our language is insufficient to explain this, but the verb "believe", in the context that most Christians read it, means "to put into action"; so, inherent within the theological conception of "faith" is the active nature of said faith.

It is hard to justify an omnipotent God with free will, but it cannot be—or, rather, it is irrational and repugnant to our moral sense [gifts that the Creator breathed into us]—that pre-destination be the truth. I cannot believe that a God who so loved the world and us, would damn much of his creation, without regard to free will, with no hope or chance of ever overcoming that damnation. That God is an immoral god; that God is not the God of Christ; that God is not my God.

The bible only says "faith alone" once, in James 2:24:

>You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Catholics believe in transubstantiation. Lutherans believe in consubstantiation.

Catholics believe that Christ, priest, and congregation offer themselves as sacrifice during liturgy. Lutherans reject the sacrificial nature of the liturgy.

Catholics believe it's acceptable to use art to elicit emotional response/ make one feel like the divine is actually present. Lutherans think that art is only acceptable for didactic purposes

Catholics have seven sacraments (dont feel like typing them out). Lutherans have three: baptism, eucharist, confession

Catholics believe in purgatory, Lutherans don't

etc.

>Lutherans think that art is only acceptable for didactic purposes
Is this autism?

The dude you replied to yes.

The important thing at a sermon is participation, not looking at pretty pictures

I am always surprised by how deeply I internalized this whole part of the liturgy. Specifically the "we justly deserve your present and eternal punishment" part. Even as a kid who had no idea that there was such a thing as a different church or people who weren't Christians I remember feeling incredulous at the "God wouldn't let bad things happen to good people" argument, that people might believe they somehow had enough merit that they didn't deserve to suffer while alive.

Taking an outside view it seems a bit like institutionalized masochism. At the same time however it has given me a relatively calm and sturdy faith that I am very thankful for.

True faith in God naturally brings works. Just as a healthy fruit tree brings fruit.