The good side of communists

>Class mobility ended in the USA 30 years ago
To me it seems the Internet has created a new generation of antrepreneurs with not a lot of capital. But please do explain your view user.

>racial equality
>sexual equality (at least nominally but still)
The were equal opportunity
they didn't discriminate who got shot in the back of the head, raped or starved to death en mass

I (OP) came from pol too. This is my first thread on /his. I thought I'd find more liberals/left leaning people here.

>new generation of antrepreneurs
gardeners, maintenance and telemarketing

I still don't understand your point that class mobility ended 30 years ago.

>And yet communist leaders are still revered today in many places
yeah in college campuses,by kids from upper class families

>Jews ran the Evil Empire and were Stalin's chief executioners, killing many more Christians than Hitler killed Jews

this is fact - look it up, tool

>I still don't understand your point that class mobility ended 30 years ago.
It has statistically flatlined

You mean wages adjusted for inflation vs productivity (FFS, are you retarded, do I really have to argue your point for you?).

I attribute that to Nixon cutting the dollar from the gold standard and the FED inflating the money supply. There's really no other explanation since the US had capitalism both before and after Bretton Woods.

you dont need to leaning left or right to know what the USSR did
explain then why leaving to israel was encouraged, tool

das rite

Why are you posting this. The only reliable sources are the first two.

So?

Guaranteed employment and living quarters were something they did, and something people in western nations used to take for granted. Now that millennials can only find mcjobs and are still stuck in the basement it's starting to look very appealing. Really makes you stink...

maybe the history of the ussr didnt stop after the 30's

Maybe because that's when Rockefeller started his big push for globalism?

I'll grant you that was something that seems they did well though in reality it translated into shit productivity for all industries and architecture like pic related.

Maybe. Either way, I don't think you can correlate wages with income mobility since most wealth is created for the owners by starting a business and the measurement for that is by profits and dividents not wages.

>Not even close user - there's never more "class mobility" in a system than capitalism. Except if you mean being middle class and then starving to death 3 years later as class mobility

Khrushchev was literally a peasant that didn't learn to read until his adulthood and he still rose to the highest position in the land.

>most wealth is created
Most wealth was created for a few by shipping wages overseas, called globalism

What about the kulaks, user?

the productivity was great, the thing that was produced, and the cost it was produced was not

commieblocks are perfectly fine, better than cardboard houses, but you need to maintain them, which is obviously not the case in many ex socialist countries

>Khrushchev was literally a peasant that didn't learn to read until his adulthood and he still rose to the highest position in the land.
How many peasants did he shot in the back of the head, i wonder, for that kind of social mobility? He must have been a sharp shooter!

Fast food and restaurants can't ship their labour overseas and their wages are still stagnant. How do you link that with gloabalism?

enemies of the state, they were against collectivist farming so they had to go

by importing cheaper ingredients
by using cheaper foreign workforce

> banker jews, they were against the rise of the reich so they had to go
> the roman senate, they were against the rise of the empire so they had to go

You think it's normal to kill the people that disagree with you. Speech like that makes my hair raise.

That makes no fucking sense user. If the ingredients are cheaper the wages should rise. And you can't outsource the waiters and cooks in a fucking restaurant.

You got no sense of irony
you gotta go too

> says the exact words that were justified to kill the kulaks and countless others
> thinks it's funny
> lol user u have no irony haha

>meet pajeet pajeetson our new ethnic swedish worker, he doesnt speak swedish yet though

it does user, for the managers
i did not take a moral stand i simply stated what was the take on them

Got it. Well, I admit you do have a point.
I'd also mention that the wages in my country Romania have risen significantly since most of the population has gone abroad while those in the West have flatlined. Probably this is the only way the third world can actually catch up.

Russia also attained food security for the first time in history.

> food security
> what is the holodomor?
> what is soy coffee, soy salamy and 1 hour queues for bread?

More to do with stalin than communism. Stalin gets a lot of bad rep but he was efficient and ruthless dictator which makes huge efforts more easy to accomplish.

Why do we only here about one mass murder in history?
We never hear about English starving the Irish, the Jamaicans and the Indi (from India) just to mention a few 10 millions? The first concentration camps dedicated to killing off whole populations was against the Boers in SA. How about carpet bombing against civilian targets in WW2? Why do we never hear about this? Because the perps won, that's why.

>Muh holodomor!
>Muh six billion!
>Muh average caloric intake briefly fell to Czarist levels!

Because stalin got rid of the jews during purges in 20s and 30s. After that the soviet union stabilised. I dont mean that jew as a group were the main problem thou and many others were purged.

>Because stalin got rid of the jews during purges in 20s and 30s
Never happened. You're reading that history book upside down.

Soviet statistics are always trustworthy. The USSR finally failed because they were running out of food in the shops during the 1980s.

No user.
With the soy salami and bread queues I'm actually talking about my own country. And what meat you could find were pig legs and really small chicken with almost no meat on them since the rest were sent to export. And yes - those queues were at least 1 hour long. Compare that to a modern supermaket.

He killed Trotsky with an ice pick and tested artillery rounds on those other Jews in 37- 39.

>Because stalin got rid of the jews during purges in 20s and 30s.
Stalin got rid of his best generals in that purge. He thought he could trust Hitler more than his own generals. This is why Barbarossa was such a shock. Just because you murder your way to the top doesn't mean you're not a moron.

There's is nothing, I repeat, there is nothing good about communism.

I know user, but still why the hell do they argue for it? There must be some good points.

Generals so good that they couldn't even beat Poland a few years before.

Nikolai Ivanovich Yezhov (May 1, 1895 – February 4, 1940) was a Jewish Bolshevik secret police official born in the town of Marijampolė, Lithuania. At the time half the population was Jewish but he took on a “Russian” name like most Bolshevik Jews. Appointed by Yagoda as Head of the NKVD, Yezhov participated in the first Five-Year Plan to starve Ukrainian peasants to death and intensify the terror. In 1937 and 1938 alone at least 1.3 million were arrested and 681,692 were shot for ‘crimes against the state’. The Gulag population swelled by 685,201 under Yezhov, nearly tripling in size in just two years, with at least 140,000 of these prisoners (and likely many more) dying of malnutrition, exhaustion and the elements in the camps (or during transport to them).

>but he was efficient

Not really.

>and ruthless

Certainly.

>Generals so good that they couldn't even beat Poland a few years before.
Their replacements got their asses kicked by tiny Finland - big improvement, there.

Not much worse than the motor vehicle department or tax preparation queues of America.

>Class mobility ended in the USA 30 years ago

It depends on what class you're talking about, social class or economic class.

There is still some economic class mobility. You can go through the work of picking up a well paid trade like plumbing, but not everyone can do this for a variety of reasons that aren't just a lack of discipline or "gumption and grit". But there isn't much you can do to move between being middle or upper middle class economically and being upper class because the upper class are essentially an investor class. The vast majority of wealth for the upper class isn't grown through physical labor but through investment and "wealth management" aka tax avoidance.

Socially there is no mobility and never has been anywhere. "New money" has always been looked down on.

>you have to lose an hour at the DMV once every ten years therefore losing an hour at the bakery everyday is totally the same thing xD
How many fucking times do tankies have to be chased off Veeky Forums?

The war in Finland was a victory, even though it wasn't a glorious one. Then the USSR went on to win a war against what was pretty much all of mainland Europe united against them. People give Stalin and the USSR a lot of shit, but the Russian empire managed to do much worse against just Germany and Austria, who both had half their forces elsewhere.

>thinks sitting in line to get a bottle of oil and a loaf of bread is the same as sitting in line at the DMV
Fucking americans

Because people are not comparing the USSR to Russia, before or after, for some reason. They're comparing its economy to the US, its army to the Germans, its human rights record to Sweden and condemn it as a total failure when they find it lacking.

Maybe it's still the cold war mindset.

>Not much worse than the motor vehicle department or tax preparation queues of America
You only have to wait in those lines once a year. Not every day to get dinner.

>Fucking americans
Real Americans don't say "queue"

blame your pants on head retarded leader for that with its policies

>Ceausescu was an idiot
>But communism is good and smart, right user XDDD?

Alright, user. To humour you, I've removed the Soviet statistics and replaced them with a linear interpolation.

> Starve millions in GULAGs
> Look at how well fed the people in freedom are XDD

Friendly reminder that in a hard labour Gulag camp you only got around 600 cal/day.

food shortages was a thing of the past in other socialist countries while you were still using steampipes to heat your commieblocks

thats not communism, thats gypsy retardation

The survival rate in the gulags was 90%. You think a man could live ten years on 600 kcal/day?

That survival rate number did not include those dieing of a "heart attack", frostbite, gangrene etc.

By curiosity, are you russian?

No user, that's fucking communism. Today Romania is well-fed and has one of the best internet infrastructures in Europe. We really got our shit together after we got rid of communism.

It does. 20 million people have been through the gulag system, 18 million came out alive. They were work camps, not death camps.

Well, maybe I am misinformed. Where can I read about that?

Any book written after the Soviet archives were opened. During the cold war the numbers were more-or-less made up, including Solzhenitsyn's famous 60 million (ie, one third of the Russian empire).

>But we can't trust Soviet sources!

Okay. What sources would you suggest, then?

It's pretty much a choice between Solzhenitsyn and the other Gulag survivors and the official sources. And we can even suppose for the sake of argument that he was full of shit.

The problem is that even if 10% of what Solzhenitsyn wrote is true, it makes the USSR much more vile than even the Nazis. And it's really hard to ignore him even though I think 60 million is way exaggerated too.

>The problem is that even if 10% of what Solzhenitsyn wrote is true, it makes the USSR much more vile than even the Nazis

I really don't see how. He describes a brutal labour camp, but that's a far cry from a death camp. The conditions aren't that different from most hard labour penal colonies, people can live in those circumstances for a long time. What is particular to the Stalin regime is not the horrors of the gulags, but how many went there (while I stress that it's "only" twenty million to counter made up cold war numbers, twenty million is still a lot), and the flimsy pretexts for many of the incarcerations. I really don't see how you can compare this to the systematic extermination of an entire race, and an aggressive war that engulfed all of Europe.

after you executed the criminal that is ceaucescu

ftfy

Here's my view on things:
- killing your own innocent people in peacetime is a much graver sin that killing the enemy during wartime.
- the numbers for the two canals (250 000) are most definately legit and they are not even in use today. People died FOR NOTHING to build those fucking canals. That is way more evil than killing jews and gypsies who you think are your enemy.
- Women were repeatedly raped in those camps. Probably many would have chosen death to having their vaginas ripped and being scarred for life.
-Killing someone slowly over 3 months with hard labour and starvation is way more evil than a quick death by shooting or gas. I know I would choose the latter.
- Stalin put innocent people into camps because the NKVD had quotas. As a jew you could still hide in a latrine and survive the holocaust. As a Russian you never knew when they would take you to the GULAG for some bullshit.

That is why, in my view, I see the Soviets as much more evil than the Nazis.

what?
then read cancer ward
how "brutal" it was

i just dont understand edgy ppl trying to paint a system as the devil because they had personal greviences with it in their family

my family lost land because of commies,had to hide from rapists and women smearing coal on their faces, but atleast they didnt pack up lets say protestants and shot them on a field near the edge of the village

>People died FOR NOTHING to build those fucking canals. That is way more evil than killing jews and gypsies who you think are your enemy.

you need help, seek a doctor

Yes user because the nazis didn't just think as the Allies as their enemies - they also thought they had a home front to win. That's what you do in war - you try to kill your enemy. I'm not saying they were right to think that or that they weren't shit but killing hundreds of thousands to build you a canal that you don't even use is way way more evil.

> they didnt pack up lets say protestants and shot them on a field near the edge of the village

What are you referring to?

>collect the jews of the village
>lead them to the mass grave you digged out with the hiwis
>shoot them one by one into it

Yes, I admit nazis were shit but I would prefer a quick death to being tortured, starved and worked to the bone for 12 hrs/day. Maybe you would have survived that but I'm not that well built - and I know that in 3 months I would have most likely been dead.

random supermarket in texas defeated entire communism and made eastern block collapse

I just want to say that I also made this thread on /pol and the discussion with you guys is way more interesting.

Most of them are dead

so the sole reason is you yourself would suffer(potentially) more

you aint better than the commies, dont ya think

also, they did torture their victim often enough and some of them took pleasure to documentate it (eventhough it was forbidden by army commands)
i dont know, getting naked before you enter the "grave", empty your pocket then slaughtered like cattle after waiting for X amount of time, depending on the queue

very often, these ppl were not even practicing their religion, or having jewish grandparents was their sin

newsflash
the holocaust was state organized murder to rob ppl from their assests and lifes (dead ppl cant go to court), do honesty, can anyone think that a peasant/small shop keeper in bumfuck nowhere is part of some wordlwide jewish conspiracy against the germanic ppl?

That non-logic of yours can easily be used to defend the purges and terror that existed in stalin's USSR, almost verbatim.

>Yes user because the Soviets didn't just think as the NATO as their enemies - they also thought they had a home front to win. That's what you do in war - you try to kill your enemy. I'm not saying they were right to think that or that they weren't shit ...

Again I'm not excusing the holocaust, I'm just saying that I've had relatives who have died in horrible suffering and I know I would prefer to die quickly in a field or a gas chamber that to suffer continuoustly in pain and hunger for the last months of my life.

You're right, I realize that was not the best of arguments.

It was a victory that ultimately led to Operation Barbarossa's timetable hastened, since the German high command figured that if a bunch of mongols on skis could inflict 300 000 casualties on the USSR, they could easily fuck up the USSR. They came very close to achieving it too.

>sexual equality
OP asked about good things not bad

It's true. It still baffles my mind that the US helped the USSR in WW2 just to have a drawn out cold war with them later.

>Not much worse
>It's literally 365 times worse

Stalin turned imperial Russia (basically the UK in the 1600's) into one of the most industrialised and modern country in the world in about 5 years. (Same with Mao)