American POWs in SEAsia?

fas.org/irp/congress/1993_rpt/pow-exec.html

This says there are no POW's in Laos and Vietnam.
It suggests that Rambo II was a movie and not based on real events.

articles.latimes.com/1991-11-08/news/mn-948_1_vietnam-war

if you look at the phrases they use when describing the POW situation is really interesting.
They constantly say things like "the government doesnt know" "no living" "I dont know about Laos and Cambodia"
After Nixon ended the war, the diplomats could never pin down the communist government on an exact number of POW's, they kept using the phrase "the government doesnt know, but when we get our money we can look and see if any nongovernment groups have any us servicemen"
and to this day they use the same tired lines.
It is very plausible if not entirely true that men were left after the war in certain SEA countries.
i dont know if your arguing for or against me, but McCain is mentioned in the article above. I could spend all day on this subject and it has interested me for decades.

>i dont know if your arguing for or against me, but McCain is mentioned in the article above. I could spend all day on this subject and it has interested me for decades.

I mean that one of them will probably get a lot of mud on their name if the prisoner files are open, since he is by the laws of the country a traitor.
Soldiers sign a contract, and he violated it after alleged torture, and the punishment is severe. Instead he is a national hero.

And I don't remember if it was McCain or Kerry, the one who was a pilot, got shot down and recorded talking pro-communist anti-USA stuff before allowed to go.

it was McCain, Kerry was shot in the butt while captain of a river boat, and it might have been by his own men

And people wonder why other nations mock the USA military, despite its obvious overall superiority.
The most successful story of quantity over quality ever told.

there is a certain quality to quantity, however we annihilated the Iraqi army in what a week, and that was a very large conventional force.

Yes, but thats because the ruskies shared information on where exactly their bases and camps are, and they got bombed before they can even start the engines on their tech.
It was an excellent campaign, very fast hit, zero retaliation possible, and probably something that will never happen again.

Still, underrated and I am sure it will be studied and quoted a lot in future history.

Tbh you sound like the colonel when you format your posts so haphazardly. It leaves us not wanting to believe you even if you are being accurately informative.

>since he is by the laws of the country a traitor.
>Soldiers sign a contract, and he violated it after alleged torture, and the punishment is severe.
It might make McCain look bad to be seen saying that if it's true, but denouncing your country under duress of torture isn't treason and is pretty routine when communists or islamists capture US soldiers and civilians. In fact, secret signals sent during these denunciations (like blinking "torture" in morse code or flipping off the camera in NK propaganda shots) is one of the main ways information about prisoner conditions got out, and none of the soldiers involved in those public denunciations were ever punished or looked down upon.

You're probably thinking of Dark Alliance. Dude was Lt. Col. James "Bo" Gritz. Him and a spook by the name of Scott Weekly. They had somehow convinced the DIA to let them go into Laos to gather evidence of the supposed POW camps. ISA gave them a shitton of money and gear; they hired a few mercenaries as backup. They fucked up and got caught at the Thailand-Laos border and the government disavowed their actions completely.
cia.gov/library/readingroom/search/site/Bo Gritz

>Kerry
Kerry cut his political teeth with the group Vietnam Veterans Against the War, and they mad massively inflated claims of war crimes.
>McCain
Are you forgetting about the time he set a carrier on fire?

This is true though. The colonel was Bo Gritz.

>He was popular in the American right-winger movement
>FBI calls him in to be a hostage negotiator at Ruby Ridge because of this
>Leaks all the info that his family was picked off
>Later goes and makes a huge militia fuss at Waco with the Davidians

Same guy. He tried to market it by selling t-shirts. The shameful thing is I'm sure he thought he was doing good, and I doubt the CIA would have ever attempted rescue, but what if. It's possible they're still there; Laos is too afraid to kill them (they aren't the bad guys any more) and America is too afraid of backlash for leaving them.

In your travels did you ever see anything suspicious? Shit carved into walls, stamped in the ground? It would be interesting to go, from the sound of it, back in the late 80s the CIA even had an informant say they saw 18 guys in a working party, and in 2009 there were reports (not on the most respected sites but still) of individual POWs.

I thought we weren't technically at war in Cambodia or Laos, but did a lot of campaigns there - so if you got shot down you were out of luck. I remember talking to a pilot who flew missions bringing cargo to Phnom Phen, and he said he was almost shot down. Imagine that, you know you'd be out of luck, but at least the Khmer Rouge would starve you to death.

What are the odds of actually driving to these areas and talking to civilians? I'm /trv/ and I have a Vietnamese friend. Curiosity of course, I can't get any time off work.

Feels, I want to see a memorial built for all the soldiers who were killed but go unknown because their mission was secret.

>tfw renewed hatred for McCain, Kerry and politicians

I don't care if opening the record books would make me look like a traitor. If there were any guys left I'd bite the bullet for them

Why John Kerry, what did he do wrong?

He was supposedly at the hearings in the 80s that reviewed the SERE and Escape/Evade symbols found in satellite photos. He decided what was classified (turns out most of the pictures, even though the hearing found they were all just shadows and rocks).

Besides perjuring himself with anecdotes in Congressional hearings that had a lot of fallout with the American people towards the War in Vietnam and some of his meritorious conduct being absolutely BTFO by people who actually knew him in the military and were there? Not allowed to say because it was within the last 25 years and mods will be upset.

Here's a quote from miafacts.org

>We have collected enough live sighting reports. It's time to stop. We know that there are not US POWs still being held in SEAsian prisons, being worked as animals in fields, repairing airplanes, or working as a houseboy for a Communist official (yes, that's what they claim). I believe it is irresponsible for the US government to continue to collect these reports and give them such publicity. There is nothing there. We know what the live sightings are and they are not US POWs. To continue this shadow play only serves to give false hope to families, to give ammunition to the professional MIA cultists, and to divert analytic and investigative attention away for serious research. Get real, say so publicly, take 24 hours of flak, and get on with the real work.

I started off thinking, "Wow, this guy really hates that we might find someone." But towards the end I can almost see his point. Laos and Vietnam aren't evil countries any more, and this sort of thing really does give families false hope where maybe it shouldn't be. What's sad is that they may have been kept there for longer, but I doubt they're still there.

Why would Vietnam keep POW? Intermediately after the war they tried to normalize the relationship with the US. news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1946&dat=19780531&id=BjkyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=b6QFAAAAIBAJ&pg=868,3551521

Only the US was still butt hurt after the war, incl supporting the like Khmer Rouge. The POW issue was used to prevent normalization with Vietnam. Thanks to some veteran senators: James Webb, John Kerry, McCain, who pushed to normalize the relationship with Vietnam in the nineties.

>Why would Vietnam keep POW
The same reason North Korea did. The same reason the U.S. did. The same reason the USSR did.

The only act of rebellion open to US prisoners to war was to die of torture or to use morse code blinks to spell out torture
Really now, do you suppose you would have done any better under torture?

And what reason is it? Butt hurt?! Vietnam felt it's a winner. No reason to be butt hurt.

so, the tomb of the unknown?

>Vietnam felt it's a winner. No reason to be butt hurt
If you ignore the millions of dead, thousands of pounds of unexploded ordnance that still hasn't been cleaned up, and all of the birth defects and barren hellscape caused by the conflict (none of which the U.S. has apologized for) maybe. You should head back to plebbit Sean. You already got BTFO posting in a Vietnam thread before.

Some of them may have done actual criminal things or murdered civilians and been tried. Others could have been on missions to Laos or Cambodia that were off the radar and unofficial, others could have escaped into Laos or other SEAsia countries.

The US doesn't want to admit they had soldiers bombing Laos or Cambodia. And when this info finally became public years later, they didn't want to admit the prisoners were left behind.

I don't believe that these prisoners are working chain gangs, but could it be possible that Laos kept some hoping the US would admit to the campaign, but doesn't want to execute them, and the US is too stubborn?

They're probably just chilling in a prison somewhere.

>somebody fights in a war
>isn't 100% puppet of neocons
>well that military service doesn't count, they secretly hated America

>somebody fights in a war
>completely lies about what he did
>gets BTFO years later for it
>Well that military service doesn't count BECAUSE THE PEOPLE HE ACTUALLY SERVED WITH FUCKING SAID SO

Don't know what you're talking about? Not in Vietnam thread before in Veeky Forums You don't know wtf you're talking about. Vietnam is never butt hurt about Vietnam War. Didn't ask war compensation, ever pay the debt to the US made by former South Vietnam government. The only butt hurt here is the US.

Sure you didn't Sean.

>Didn't ask war compensation
Vietnam continually bitches for compensation to help clean up ordnance and for Agent Orange. You have no idea what you are talking about.

voices.washingtonpost.com/sleuth/2008/06/john_kerrys_vietnam_crew_mates.html

>BECAUSE THE PEOPLE HE ACTUALLY SERVED WITH FUCKING SAID SO

The people he actually served with said that the Swiftboat veterans were full of shit.

Considering the Swiftboat Veterans included people he served with, including his CO, I'd say otherwise.

Haha. Born in Hanoi, my school was 50 meter from Hanoi Hilton. Never seen POW after the war. Now BTFO here.

Yeah, because they would keep them in dense cities with heavy amounts of tourist travel, right? I though gooks were supposed to be smart, Sean?

>Several of those who joined SBVT during the 2004 campaign were officers who had previously praised Kerry's conduct during the Vietnam War. These included Division Commander Grant Hibbard, who wrote positive evaluations of Kerry, and Commander George Elliott, who submitted Kerry for a Silver Star. SBVT asserted that it included, in total, 16 officers who served with Kerry in Coastal Division 11 as members.[25] Despite SBVT's statements that Kerry's "entire chain of command" belonged to the group, [26] Joseph Streuli, former commander of Coastal Division 13, Charles Horne, former commander of Coastal Squadron 1, and Art Price, former commander CTF 116, who are described in "Unfit for Command" as part of Kerry's chain of command, were not affiliated with the group.

>Not all SBVT members said that they were signing the letter for the same reason. For example, from an interview published the day before the letter was made public: "'[Kerry] earned his medals, he did what he was supposed to do in Vietnam,' said retired Coast Guard Captain Adrian Lonsdale, who was in the chain of command above Kerry and oversaw various operations dealing with Navy swift boats of the type Kerry commanded. 'But I was very disappointed in his statements after he got out of the Navy.'"[31]

>Of those who served in Kerry's boat crew, only Stephen Gardner joined SBVT.[32] He was not present on any of the occasions when Kerry earned his medals, including his Purple Hearts. Gardner appeared in two of the group's television advertisements.

>All other living members of Kerry's crew supported his presidential bid, and some frequently campaigned with him as his self-described "band of brothers". Kerry crew members have disputed some of SBVT's various allegations, calling them "totally false" (Drew Whitlow), "garbage" (Gene Thorson), and "a pack of lies" (Del Sandusky).[33][34][35][36][37]

Neocons are the lowest form of life on this planet

Idiot, no tourist/expats here in the eighties. Every European looking persons will be noticed intermediately.

>no tourist/expats here in the eighties
Tourism in Vietnam got it's start in the 80's, you fucking retard

I have been to the present day Thai-Laos border crossing at Vientiene, using the Australian donated Thai - Laos friendship bridge. Given the history of the Golden Triangle in that area and me being a regular white guy, I assumed I was in for a tougher than usual border crossing. i couldnt of been more wrong. From Thai to Laos, all they cared about was that I paid for the visa. From Laos to Thai, I literally walked through. I didnt so much as get a glance, the Thai guy who stamped my passport was on the phone, and didnt even look at me. Although the Mekong is wide and fast at this point, it would be nothing to get a boat a couple miles up or down stream and have someone ferry you across, in a country where the average wage is like $3 a day, 10k baht would buy someones silence for life. My point is theres really only two explanations for how they got caught, either someone wanted them too or they wanted to.
its that bad huh, im sorry. I have been out of school for years and my day job isn't teaching english literature. Suggestions?
Those two guys are real pieces of shit, you can almost see the deep state saying if they play by their rules that eventually they will get to run for president...
No I have never seen anything suspicious, but then again I haven't been looking. My fear is if I go start asking questions someone is going to lead me on a wild goose chase or I am going to get disappeared. Keep in mind also, that the areas were talking about are deep in the jungle with UXO's everywhere and some areas might not actually be under the control of the government. So if something happens medically or kidnappily your literally on your own. It is a great thought, and would still love to do it.
It is fact they were kept there for longer. As you can see some of the language he uses mirrors what someone in his position would say if questioned about UFO's or another conspiracy.

Rubbish... Are you bullshitting? In the eighties there was only one hotel in Hanoi (Giang Vo hotel) and I lived next to it... No fucking tourist here.

>As a whole, however, tourism is relatively new to Vietnam. It began with the Đổi Mới in 1986
citypassguide.com/en/content/vietnam-country-profile/history-tourism-vietnam/

Fuck off.

Things I sincerely doubt
>You're Vietnamese
>You were alive in the 80's
>You were alive in the 90's
>You're not Sean
>You have any idea what you're talking about and aren't just shitposting to shitpost

One of the reasons for Vietnam keeping POW's after the war was that they were holding on to them until after they got their money. Nixon promised them a couple billion to rebuild their country. After they got the money the Commies said they would check to see if any more POW's were in areas or being held by non government groups. After Nixon left office, no one on either side wanted anything to do with his policies and one of those policies was the money for the Commies, to this day they never got paid.
see photo
I am under the mind that all the POW's are dead by this point. At this point were talking 40-50 years as a POW, thats a long time. I dont think they were treating these guys with much kindness the whole time either.
I thought you guys had a considerable Russian presence in the 80's? POW's were kept in underground tunnels under the tomb of uncle Ho. I bet if you could find an old guard after a couple drinks he would tell you as much.

You don't know shit except using google... Absolutely wrong info. Doi Moi started in 1986 but not tourist. Tourist in Hanoi started in the nineties. Only people who lived in Hanoi in the eighties know first hotel in Hanoi was built in Giang Vo. Try if you can google that information. LOL

>no tourist specific hotels means there were no tourists
You're fucking joking, right? Surely no one is that fucking stupid.

ok what about Russians on official business? You cant say there was never Europeans in Nam, charity groups even?

Every foreigners in Hanoi was kept in Giang Vo for control. No one was allowed to travel without police. I know the exact location. Used to seen children from Angola, Cuba, DDR, Russian playing on the street in Giang Vo. Now you would see Koreans, Japans expats. Time changes.

What about the tunnels under the mausoleum of Ho Chi Minh? Have you ever been there? Do you know any old timers who fought in the war of American aggression?

Dude, it's someone larping as a Vietnamese. They weren't even a nut in their pappy's sack yet, let alone a fully conscious slope.

You don't know how strict Vietnam was. It likes fucking North Korea. You're not allowed to marry Vietnamese. You're not allow to visit Vietnamese at their home. Even for follow commies. So no fucking tourists. Everyone saying otherwise is bull-sitting.

How would I know. Only visit once as a child.

Of course, my flat was full with veteran, went to school with children of colonels, generals...etc. If there is something like POW, we will talk about it. My parents were technician working at relays station outside Hanoi, working with the Russians.

I like how your English has consistently gotten worse throughout the thread in a really shitty attempt to make your larp seem real. Well done. I mean you should be on fucking Broadway with the top tier acting you've shown yourself capable of. Super believable and believe me, I know acting.

Was tempting to post some private family photos with Russian technician during the war, but realize it's just Veeky Forums. On other forums, I might post some photos. LOL

>again with the larping and broken english which has gotten even worse in a single post
Before you had stated you lived in Hanoi next to the tourist hotel, now it's you only visited once. You aren't Vietnamese. You weren't alive in the 80's. You don't now what you're talking about. You're a larping kid fishing for attention. Last (You) you're going to get.

Read the fucking post I replied to. I only visited once the Ho Chi Minh mausoleum.

Please tell us more about things you didn't do.

well, just like every thread on Veeky Forums this started out really promising...