Veeky Forums opinion on Third Reich

>Were the joos gassed?
>Did Hitler do anything wrong?
>How good was NATSOC in Nazi Germany?
>Were the Germans the real good guys?

Other urls found in this thread:

web.archive.org/web/20120401191409/http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/topf/)
twitter.com/AnonBabble

> Did Hitler do anything wrong?
How is this even a question? The guy was so wrong that he killed himself. Imagine how he could prove his ideas in Nurnberg instead of dying like a coward.

> killed himself
You mean escaped to Argentina/Antarctica

Yes.
Everything.
Terrible if you cared about things like liberty, freedom and was a minority or belonged to a left-wing party.
No.

Nuremberg was an ilegitimate show trial and he gave himself and his family a better death than the ruskies would if they had found them first.

> escaping into black country
the fate worse than death for proud nazi like him

Doesn't the philosophy of National Socialism embrace the thought of liberty handed down from the ones in power to the ones who are not?

>Were the Germans the real good guys?

>"Yup, it's the Jews that are the reason why we're poor. The fact that we lost the World War and lack of people getting jobs have nothing to do with it. "

>nurnberg

wat the fuck

>Were the joos gassed?

Yes, but the focus on the Jewish people overshadows the others who were victims of the 3rd Reich

t. Jew
>Did Hitler do anything wrong?

The only thing that he did right was building the autobahn
>How good was NATSOC in Nazi Germany?

How good was communism in post WW2 soviet countries ?.
It was shit when you weren't a staunch Ideologe or benefited from nepotism
>Were the Germans the real good guys?
The German leadership and the SS?
No
The poor kids and sods that were conscripted to fight a hopeless fight against the whole world ?
Maybe, depends

>Were the joos gassed?
Definitely, although I don't think that Auschwitz was an extermination camp, and I am incredibly skeptical about Treblinka being as efficent as people claim. I don't know much about Sobibor and Belsen, but I'm inclined to believe that they were more efficent than Treblinka.

>Did Hitler do anything wrong?
So much, so much wrong.
>How good was NATSOC in Nazi Germany?
Going by many primary sources from people who lived under it, pretty good. For the small minorities that were hated, not as good as Weimar.

>Were the Germans the real good guys?
The only good guys in WW2 were the Finns. Everyone else did horrible things or had really shitty motives.

Wasn't there a commie revolution in Germany immediately after WW1 that killed thousands of Germans? Plus the whole great depression thing.

It is Nürnberg in germanic.

My problem with the Holocaust is that it relies to much on testimony and forced confessions under threat of hanging instead of actual fact. Have you ever watched the testimonies of Jews and captured pilots/soldiers who were in Auschwitz and described it to being similar to Japanese internment camps in the U.S.? Also, weren't we ease dropping on German coded messages throughout the war, and also captured millions of documents afterwards? If so, than why, out of all the documents and received codes, there are only a handful that suggest the Holocaust took place.
>Note suggests, not irrefutable proof.

> The only thing
He wasn't *that* bad, user.

>depicts the communist revolution as a real threat instead of the student LARP it really was

>Giving Hitler credit for other people's achievements

> blaming Hitler for other people's crimes

i. I'm inclined towards the "revisionist" line on the gas chambers (as verboten as that is here). However, I am genuinely open-minded to the possibility if more conclusive evidence were presented.
ii. He did almost everything wrong. Boorish incompetent who kept rolling the dice and pushing his luck until eventually it ran out.
iii. I don't think "national socialism" was much of a coherent ideology. Life may have been good or bad in Germany depending on who you exactly you were. The Nazi upper elite was staffed with a lot of fruitcakes and borderline criminals and the only one with his head screwed on seemed to be Speer.
iv. I don't believe in "good guys" or "bad guys", but by any objective standard the answer is no. The Nazis weren't good for the Germans and they certainly weren't good for the world, although they inherited a virulent strain of Prussian belligerence which makes it hard to extract them from a wider perspective.

Yes
Fucking obviously
Good but only due to circumstances. In any other situation it would have fallen flat on its face like it was going to if not for the war.
Literally worse than the Soviets.

Touché, still you play devils advocate you can't balance Hitler's wrongs with his right doings well except when you are an utilitarian and perform heavy mental gymnastics.

>Not as much as you think
>Yes
>Fuck if we know, ask the Germans
>Define good

>ii. He did almost everything wrong. Boorish incompetent who kept rolling the dice and pushing his luck until eventually it ran out.
I believe he was forced into a bad hand on both the Eastern and Western Front. With both France and Britain massing troops on the border and the Soviet Union swallowing up land after the joint invasion of Poland forced the Germans, knowing that war was inevitable. Decided to strike preemptively rather than get sucker punched on both sides.

How often do show trials go 288 days?
>forced confessions
Why in the 70+ years since have we not had a single German SS officer recant their testimony?

Do you have any idea how Nazi members were interrogated in the year after the war ended? 8 MILLION. In a single year. How did they get so many torturers?

Why Hitler just didn't ally Stalin to fight against (((global capital))) together?

>Do you have any idea how Nazi members were interrogated in the year after the war ended? 8 MILLION.
There's no reason to believe 8 million were privy to the situation in the concentration camps, though.

They were gased. They had built rediculously large cremotoriums. But I don't think it was as large as the testimonies laid out. I also don't believe the German's used fucking diesel engines to gas their captives.

Captured pilots/soldiers from the west were given really good treatment by the Germans, the Soviet forces were pretty much frozen to death on mass.

I think taking power in a country and rendering it to ruins and the death of 10% of the population in 12 short years along with creating a war that ended up killing 60 million people would trump any """""""good""""""" things he did.

> How did they get so many torturers?
Prisoners tortured each other.

You are right. They were interviewed and put in a category 1 - 5, 1 being no threat at all, and 5 being a threat to become a nazi underground resistance.

Practically all could give some insight on people disappearing and never heard from again, and most have told of rumors of jews being put to death.

>Why in the 70+ years since have we not had a single German SS officer recant their testimony?
It's literally a crime in many parts of the world.
>How did they get so many torturers?
They didn't, because they didn't need them.
Simply placing them in life or death situations is enough to force the "right" answer out of anyone.
>Either talk about the gas or get the rope
Hitler on many occasions made efforts to gain peace with the Soviets. Even before Barbarossa took off, Hitler tried getting Stalin to submit and end the Eastern Front right then and there.

I don't believe anyone disputes the fact that Jews were killed or put to death. It's the scale and purported means of persecution that arouses so much controversy.

The evidence that they used gs chambers to kill is shady at best. With people rebuilding the camps after the war to there own specifications to fit the narrative. It also goes to show the lack of actual evidence, not testimonies, gives you the argument that you have the same amount of backing that they were used to delouse clothes do to TB and lice, then if you made the argument of gassing people.

There

Was

A

War

On

England began the blockades which is an act of War. Hitler had to expand to acquire resources for his people.

The blockades are the reason why adequate medicine wasn't available. The blockades were the reason why adequate food wasn't available.

If you really want to blame a flag for all the civilian and military deaths blame the British Monarchy.

Hitler was the least trustworthy politician in modern history who gambled until it didnt pay off, plunging europe into war. His government was economically sound but void of free speech or free expreesion and at its core was very disorganized and corrupt.

They had built rediculously large cremotoriums. But I don't think it was as large as the testimonies laid out. I
You would be wrong I am afraid. There are memos (see pic, translation here: web.archive.org/web/20120401191409/http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/topf/) sent from the company who manufactured the crematoriums directly to himmler in which they were told that the capability of burning 80,000 corpses a month is insufficient and they needed more ovens just in Auschwitz.

>I also don't believe the German's used fucking diesel engines to gas their captives.
A report was sent to SS-Obersturmbannführer Walter Rauff on June 5, 1942 which said that "ninty-seven thousand have been processed, using three vans, without any defects showing up in the vehicles", and that "Experience shows, however, that when the back door is closed and it gets dark inside, the load pushes hard against the door." What was the load of 97,000? How were they processed? and why would the load push hard against the door?

Not gassed, but killed en masse
Plenty
Hard to say considering it didn't last that long.
hahaha no.

I believe the Allies were the reason for Jews dying as they bombed the fuck out of not only the supply chains that fed both the Germans and the Jews, but also the camps themselves.

That's simply not true.

You have the blueprints, the order forms for the construction of the "gas cellars", you have the order forms for the industrial air ventilators (the same ones used for the delousing rooms), you have the order forms and blue prints for the crematoriums. You have estimates both from the nazis and the company who manufactured the ovens how many bodies they could burn in a day

yes
yes
"in 10 years from now, you will not recognize Berlin" - Adolf Hitler 1935
no they were almpst as horrible as you OP

>that arouses so much controversy.
There is no controversy outside of fringe neo-Nazi movements on the Internet. 99.9% of historians studying the WW2 don't question the holocaust.

Why then less than 3 km outside of Bergen-Belsen where food supplies used for the camp found with "600 tons of potatoes, 120 tons of tinned meat, 30 tons of sugar, upwards of 20 tons of powdered milk; cocoa, grain, wheat and other foodstuffs"?

>The blockades are the reason why adequate medicine wasn't available. The blockades were the reason why adequate food wasn't available.
What was the point of origin of these supplies of food and medicine you are speaking of?

They don't question the Holocaust because it is both career suicide and an actual crime in many countries.
You have one example, out of countless that are drastically different.
>Look, a black guy drowned. Therefore all black people can't swim.

The Germans started this war by bombing civilians in Wielun. Times and times again their leadership talked about how this war is different, and how this war will lead to the destruction of Jewish race in Europe.
We know about German actions against Polish intelligentsia (many Polish scientists and professors were murdered for being Polish elite).
We know that in Poland for helping a Jew there was a death penalty, we also know that if a Jew was found outside of ghetto he was killed.
All of this was in official German documents, and it wasn't even hidden.

Do you really think they cared about the Jews? That they wanted to save them? The conditions in ghettos were atrocious. No food, no hygiene, diseases, dead bodies lying on streets.

You stormfags disgust me.

Ruined Europe forever. Hitler should've been killed in WWI.

>The Germans started this war by bombing civilians in Wielun
The Poles started the war by massacring thousands of Germans in what use to be Germany. Most notable being the Danzig massacre.
>Do you really think they cared about the Jews?
Who do you think created Israel? Adolf Hitler, during the "Transfer Program" where thousands of Jewish Germans were able to migrate from Germany to Palestine. This went on from the 1930's to 1941.

Yes.
Yes.
Terrible.
No.

>The Poles started the war by massacring thousands of Germans in what use to be Germany. Most notable being the Danzig massacre.
Finally, someone who gets it. Volksdeutscher Selbstschutz were nothing more than women and children who were executed by the vile polish

Germany is the angsty kid in the class of Europe. And the 3 Reichs prove it
>First Reich = Angsty kid does something that grabs the attention of the class. But then laughs at him again.
>Second Reich = Angsty kid tries to be hip n cool and wants to join the cool kids by being a total asshole. Gets swatted down and told to sit the fuck back down.
>Third Reich = School-shooter mode. Gets put down and arrested, finally jailed for a long time.

Danzig massacre never happened. Even Nazi propaganda didn't mention anything called 'Danzig massacre'. You are thinking of Bromberg Blutsonntag and Nazi propaganda regarding alleged Polish action in the so called Polish corridor.
Danzig was a Free City where 90% citizens were Germans and it was ruled by the Nazis (Albert Forster), they had their own police, SS and SA.

>Who do you think created Israel? Adolf Hitler, during the "Transfer Program" where thousands of Jewish Germans were able to migrate from Germany to Palestine. This went on from the 1930's to 1941.
No. Havaara Agreement was established to help fight against Jewish boycott of German goods. It was done purely for economic reasons. This program was abolished in 1939, not in 1941. Only 30.000 German Jews benefited from it. Many German Jews simply emigrated and left all their belongings in Germany.

>The Poles started the war by massacring thousands of Germans in what use to be Germany. Most notable being the Danzig massacre.
I am sure there are plenty of sources non-stormfront or IHR related which you can source?

Was this the massacre in which Goebbels initially said that 5,800 german poles were killed but in 1940 it magically became 58,000?

Thanks for ignoring the entire conversation that's been going on in this thread to post that analogy. Now shutup and go back to your desk, nerd.

I guess it came from the same source that turns German death tolls into polish death tolls to make the Germans look like bullies.

The German Ministry of Propaganda?

Speaking of Danzig, this is a good example of heroic German soldiers. They were fighting against Polish postmen.

>Frustrated by the Poles' refusal to surrender, Bethke requested a rail car full of gasoline. Danzig's fire department pumped it into the basement, and it was soon thereafter ignited by a hand grenade.[4] After three Poles were burned alive (bringing the total Polish casualties to six killed in action), the rest decided to capitulate. The first two people to leave the building, director Dr. Jan Michoń, carrying a white flag, and commandant Józef Wąsik were shot by the Germans. The rest of the Poles were allowed to surrender and leave the burning building. Six people managed to escape from the building, although two of them were captured the following days.

>All the prisoners were put on trial in front of the martial court of the Wehrmacht's Gruppe Eberhardt. A first group of 28 Victoriaschule-prisoners, with a single Wehrmacht officer as defence lawyer,[6] was tried on 8 September, a second group of 10, who recovered in the hospital, on 30 September. All were sentenced to death as illegal combatants under the German special military penal law of 1938.

>The decision of the German court occurred thanks to the work of a German author, Dieter Schenk, who published a monograph on the defence of the post office and referred to the execution of the defenders as judicial murder (Justizmord).[11] Schenk stresses the commanding role of Danzig police forces, which made a Wehrmacht court martial not competent to convict the defenders. Instead, the Free City of Danzig's penal law would have been applicable, without the option of a death penalty.[7]

Such noble warriors fighting against the Polish menace.

More like Nuremberg trial and Soviet subversion tactics

1.) Yes.
2.) Yes, obviously. He genocided people and took on multiple countries and got his nation destroyed.
3.) Terrible.
4.) Germans? Yes. Nazis? No.

>create an ideology of "fight till der letze mann!"
>an hero

This is the one thing that really pisses me off
His retarded no retreat orders arguably cost the war at least in the east

Kys.

>Fritz Lang's Metropolis
>created to further the Nazi party
The only Nazi member on cast was Thea Von Harbou and she didn't join until later.

>Hitler on many occasions made efforts to gain peace with the Soviets. Even before Barbarossa took off, Hitler tried getting Stalin to submit and end the Eastern Front right then and there.

The Soviets were more willing to settle peace and yet Hitler refused. Also the fact that Hitler invaded them in the first place.

>it's a "the allies did the holocaust by bombing supply lines. Disregard that the German guards, Allied military prisoners and the civilian prisoners not regarded as subhuman suffered nowhere near the same deathtoll, despite being in the same supply system" episode

She was a screenwriter and you can see some Nazi/Volkish influences in the film.

Rotwang is an evil Jew manipulating both the socialists and capitalists, creating promiscuous women (evil Maria) and wanting to destroy pure Germanic land with his evil machines.

ARGENTINA ES BLANCO

>yes
>Better question would be what did he do right
>destroyed the country-tier
>no

>Were the joos gassed?
No
>Did Hitler do anything wrong?
No
>How good was NATSOC in Nazi Germany?
Good
>Were the Germans the real good guys?
Yes

>Hitler on many occasions made efforts to gain peace with the Soviets.

As early as the summer of 1940 Hitler ordered planning for an invasion of the Soviet Union, also Stalin, if I remember correctly, was actually open to joining the Axis Powers in early 1941. Furthermore, when Soviet spies informed the Kremlin of the build-up of German forces along the Germany-USSR border, Stalin refused to believe that Hitler was planning to invade, and was so adamant in his conviction that some of his spies were sent to the Gulag for it.

Yes
Yes
Bad
No