This >H >R >E meme needs to die right now

This >H >R >E meme needs to die right now.
So im going to break it down for all you armchair """historians""" and your """humor"""
>HOLY
Leader was crowed by the pope the de facto leader of the catholic church and western christianity
>ROMAN
Alright now this part is hard to understand so ill explain it for you
>eastern christianity and western christianity were having a disagreement over latin and greek rites
>the catholic church is upset when the leader of the eastern roman empire also know as the byzantine empire converted to a heresy know as iconoclasm
>then out of what is modern day france comes this german guy know as karl the great also know as charlemagne and he takes over a large amount of territory
>the pope likes this new german man
>so he crowns him king of the romans in honor of the fallen western roman empire
>EMPIRE
as stated above charlemange took over a lot and i mean A LOT of territory (southern germany france and northern italy) even today that is a lot
and to be quite honest empire is a buzzword for a large amount of territory

Veeky Forums BTFO'd and REKT'd

This

>Pope has no authority to crown an Emperor
>Roman means 'Citizern of the Roman Empire', which still exists at the time

Empire wasn't a 'wow such land'
In the medieval mindset is literally just meant 'Rome'. That's their entire mental picture of what an empire is.

What really happened:
>Lombards are getting closer to Rome
>Popescared.jpg
>invites in Charlie to save him because the ERE is too busy to focus on Italy
>Crowns him afterwards even though he has no authority to do so

>Pope wasn't the de-facto leader yet (Papal 'muh powers' isn't till the 11th/12th century)
>Greek and Latin Christianity didn't fully split till 1204 (the 'Great Schism' wasn't as big as popular history makes it appear)
>It's just a really really large Frankish Kingdom that gets split up and divided in a few generations

>Autistic German later comes about and 'refounds' the HRE after saving the Pope again

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The
>H
>R
>E
refers to the German version.

The Frankish one under Charlie isn't the same. It collapsed before being refounded by Otto

reminder that philosophy is not a job
if you dont believe me look at marx

>Roman
this is what they call "pulling straws out of your ass". Not only was it a stretch for the Pope to crown some /German/ king as the new emperor of /Rome/, but it is also a stretch to actually defend this as a /Roman/ empire when you've got a /German/ guy leading a /French/ army who suddenly gets crowned as the /Roman/ emperor and now all of a sudden it's a /Roman/ empire. absolute bullshit.

>Secular
>German
>Federation

Are you seriously accusing Byzantine of iconoclasm when the were one of the only governments to ever attempt stopping it. Western artists painted Jesus too, but pagans (and ex-pagans by extension) suck at art and never had the classical background that Byzantine painters and sculptors did.

>Satantic
>Barbarian
>Kingdom

>The imperial line was alive and well in Constantinople
>The official capital was moved from Rome to constantinople
>lel fuck you I'm the pope, this guy is Emperor now
The HRE deserves all the ridicule it gets. Also iconoclasm is not a heresy.

>this is considered the height of french humor and free thought
french """philosophy""" and """humor""" everyone

>Unholy
>Unroman
>Not an empire

...

Even if you take for granted that the HRE was a continuation of the Frankish Empire (so far so good). The most you can stretch that line is until the death of Henry II the last Ottonian emperor, or stretching it even more to include the Salian dynasty, which by all means was a disastrous period for the HRE and were vassals did what they want and even challenged the emperors power.

Also you might want to look at the investiture controversy, a running theme in HRE's history, is that the pope would refuse to crown the emperors because they were not in line with the Church administration. So the >holy
part is just as much an ironic comment, but also due to the conant italian wars the HRE waged in Italy against the papacy.

Personally I would call the HRE a feudal confederation, with some periods of imperialistic revival like the reign of Frederick Barbarossa.
The Habsburg Empire was however an entirely different entity, and can be more accurately addressed as the Austrian empire after the death of Charles V.

>Holy
HREmperors were at loggerheads with the Papacy itself over who had the power to nominate clergy, the Emperor mistakenly believing he had. The Pope excommunicated some of them emperors from the affront.
>Roman
Even when Italy was under their domination, Rome was excluded from the imperial circles while the center of power remained in Germany
>Empire
Collection of disgregating fiefdoms, some not bigger than a few towns

Impious Germanic Federation is more like it is

>tfw you are so holy go against the pope so much that he usually doesn't want to crown you
>tfw pope that doesn't like you owns Rome and won't allow you to rule it
>tfw all the territory is owned by princes that don't really listen most of the time and is the one that made you who you are as opposed to the other way around so they feel less like an Empire more like random confederation of states most of the time


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>Holy
It wasn't.
>Roman.
It was Germanic, so it wasn't.
>Empire
It wasn't that either, given it was just a loose affiliation and confederation of a bunch of city-states, dukedoms, and principalities joined together.

HRE is a meme.

It actually would be many times cooler that way.

>Cathar
>French
>Duchies

>Pagan
>German
>Tribes

>national
>socialist
>reich

SPQR>HRE>gayzantium

>Haram
>Rumanyy
>Sultanate

It was beautiful. A refuge for the dreamers of a better past and future. They're both betrayed.

>so he crowns him king of the romans in honor of the fallen western roman empire
you're argument would be stronger if you mention that he was crowned in ROME and hailed by the Roman people in the streets as the new emperor. You also forgot the legal argument of imperii

>so he crowns him king of the romans in honor of the fallen western roman empire
No, dumbass. He does not crown him king of the Romans "in honor" of the western empire. This wasn't an homage, it was a shitty gimmick to try and pass him off as the inheritor of Rome. Even if you were right that he just gave him the title in honor of the Roman Empire, you're just agreeing with the people who laugh at the stupidity of the name.
Also, don't mock Veeky Forums with "armchair historians" maymay. Argument from authority is a retarded tactic, and it's even worse when you aren't an authority, or citing one.

Don't bother man. This place is not worth it.

>Pope has no authority to crown an Emperor

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The HRE meme comes from the following entity. Not the Frankish empire.
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The Holy Roman Empire Charlemagne/Otto I founded and the Holy Roman Empire under the Habsburgs are so fucking different that it is honestly wrong to use the same name for them.
The early one is more like OP describes it while the late one is more like the meme

>Rome>Germany>Rome

What did he mean by this?