Was the Masada real

user, and what is the history of world if not people forcing other people into war? How do you think European monarchs, Islamic caliphs, Emperors of East Asian countries and so on ever got anything done? By kindly asking their subjects to go to war? Be real. They all forced their people to go to war for them. A choice to refuse to go to war is a modern thing, not a historical standard.

Yes, ISIS and Taliban are very brave, they are supporters of a disgusting ideology that need to be wiped from planet, but they are indeed brave.

Jewish rebellions against Rome were a thing of beauty and bravery, but not wisdom. If Jews simply remained obedient, they would never have lost Israel.

Precisely, especially since people regard Celts as a strong noble savage warrior race and Jews as weak bodied scribes merchants. Yet Jews managed to create some of the greatest rebellions in human history. Credit where credit is due.

The "you're looking at em asshole" line is the best part of that

Wasn't it a siege? Sieges were always lopsided like that.

the great majority of the jewish forces have surrendered at this point.
in jewish literature of the time saw them as brutes.
embracing Masada as a positive symbol only came at modern times.
let us not forget Masada want the most important battle, the larger part of the rebellion was fought by more main-stream people.
Masada doesnt represent the rebellion.

>All Jewish wars againt Romans were Leonidas tier bravery

Guerilla actions and brutal reprisals against civilians are not exactly Leonidas tier.

Fair enough user, but I was talking in general about Roman-Jewish wars. Siege of Masada is just one event, currently used as propaganda by Israelis.

Were Vietnamese brave?

900 Jewish diehards of the disastrous Jewish Revolt hold up on a mountain in a highly defensible fort with vast reserves of food and water, and they were perfectly capable of driving away the Romans on foot.

The Roman's solution was to build a mountain-sized siege engine capable of bypassing Masada's natural defenses. The hold outs committed suicide before they could put it to use, knowing that the writing was on the wall

i fucking hate it that became into a positive symbol. to me it represent everything that was wrong with jewish society.
a small group not accepting the compromise dictated by the leaders of the great majority, trying to force them into more losses, and when that fails still not accepting defeat.

During the siege and subsequent fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD, Zealots trapped 1,100,000 innocents worshippers who came for Pesach into the city, who almost all died of famine and internal violences in the course of the year. Jewish warriors were also notorious for launching quick raids, killing a dozen of Roman soldiers then retreating back into the fortress. Is this considered “bravery”?

>their temple
Pretty sure it was built by Canaanites, destroyed, then built by Persians.

>Jews as weak bodied scribes merchants
Well to be fair they weren't viewed that way at the time of the Judo-Roman wars. Than their reputation was of fanatical fighters and they served as mercenaries in many places like in Persia, Egypt, fighting for the Seleucids etc.
The whole Jewish not fighting thing came about after the wars when the only branch of Judaism allowed to survive was very pacifistic and viewed the rebellions as an act against god. That's why modern ulraortodox Jews refuse to serve in the Israeli army or defend themselves in any way.

Perhaps you should google before contributing than.

Yes, of course. Josephus wrote of it.

Each man was to go to his own home and kill his women and children. Then each of the men would kill one of the men, until the last man committed suicide.

We know this because at least one of the men could not bear to kill his wife and children, and they were captured by the Romans.

Prior to this, these folks had participated in the slaughter of about 5000 Roman troops. That was not something the Emperor was going to let go, even if it took years to build a ramp up to the fortress.

Herod was an Edomite. No clue why you're bringing Persians into this.

Excavations also found some of the clay tablets used for the suicide lottery.

>Decapitating woman and children is considered brave nowadays

I agree it takes real bravery to create fear in the hearts of the civilian population and getting your ass kicked by worse equipped communist Kurds

The 3rd war was the most hardcore

those numbers are obviously ridiculous. There's no way a tiny province like Judea is going to shit out a quarter to half a million troops, that's like Chinese numbers there's no way. Romans probably inflating numbers again

>implying Kurdish militias aren't much better equipped than ISIS
>implying every victory of Kurdish militias over ISIS wasn't won solely because of enormous assistance from the West
>implying soldiers of anti-ISIS and anti-Taliban coalitions haven't decapitated women and children and haven't used terror against the civilian population

Bravery is treated inherently as a positive. To call them brave is to glorify their actions The Sicarii were scum who would carry out random assassinations on Romans and Jews who they felt weren't fanatical enough in wanting to drive out the Romans. To call them brave is to glorify them. To glorify Masada is to glorify terrorists.

You're looking at em asshole!

They really lost it by WW2

>During the siege and subsequent fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD, Zealots trapped 1,100,000 innocents worshippers who came for Pesach into the city, who almost all died of famine and internal violences in the course of the year.

You haven't even touched on what the Jews did.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitos_War

>The Kitos War occurred during the period of the Jewish–Roman wars, 66–136. While the majority of the Roman armies were fighting Trajan's Parthian War on the eastern border of the Roman Empire, major uprisings by ethnic Judeans in Cyrenaica, Cyprus and Egypt spiraled out of control, resulting in a widespread slaughter of left behind Roman garrisons and Roman citizens by Jewish rebels. Some of the areas with the heaviest massacres were left so utterly annihilated that others were made to settle these areas to prevent the absence of any remaining presence. The rebellions were finally crushed by Roman legionary forces, chiefly by the Roman general Lusius Quietus.

>Dio Cassius states of Jewish insurrectionaries:

>"'Meanwhile the Jews in the region of Cyrene had put one Andreas at their head and were destroying both the Romans and the Greeks. They would cook their flesh, make belts for themselves of their entrails, anoint themselves with their blood, and wear their skins for clothing. Many they sawed in two, from the head downwards. Others they would give to wild beasts and force still others to fight as gladiators. In all, consequently, two hundred and twenty thousand perished. In Egypt, also, they performed many similar deeds, and in Cyprus under the leadership of Artemio. There, likewise, two hundred and forty thousand perished. For this reason no Jew may set foot in that land, but even if one of them is driven upon the island by force of the wind, he is put to death. Various persons took part in subduing these Jews, one being Lusius, who was sent by Trajan."[3]