Can we have an honest debate over, what if Nazis controlled Europe?
Would the world be better off than the shit hole that it is today or worse?
Not even stormfag, I just want to hear the economic side of the Nazi party, I mean brought Germany out of the shitter, could they have done the same for the world?
Other urls found in this thread:
My understanding is that the Nazi economic policy was standard Keynesianism. Stimulate the economy with deficit spending and public works programmes. The difference is, instead of hiking up taxes to pay off the debt afterwards, they invaded Poland instead.
>Can we have an honest debate over, what if Nazis controlled Europe?
What? in a post WW2 environment?
>Would the world be better off than the shit hole that it is today or worse?
Assuming a 'likely' outcome to WW2, it would be substantially worse, as "winning" in Europe involves defeating the Soviets (somehow) and then getting bombed by the Western Allies until they decide it's not working, can't make a European invasion work, and give up. There is a high likelihood of the deployment of nuclear weapons before this happens, so you've got a Germany ruling over an irradiated cinder of Europe, and subject to embargo from pretty much the rest of the world. That's not a good recipe for economic and scientific progress.
>, I mean brought Germany out of the shitter, could they have done the same for the world?
Not really, no. I'm sure you're going to hear a lot of this, but check out Adam Tooze's work, the Wages of Destruction. They essentially just rode a bubble made out of playing credit games of pitting the U.S. off of France and Britain, and were pretty much doing a phoney recovery that was almost entirely channeled into military spending, things were so bad that they were having peacetime rationing of food in 1938.
>the shit hole that it is today
Western and Central Europe is one of the best places in the world, you underaged shit.
So basically a government fueled by world domination?
I cant say I'd hate that. What better way to feel patriotism for your country than when ever your country starts goin broke it means you get to go invade some place.
Yeah, it works great until you get BTFO.
>they invaded Poland instead.
Is there any proof that Nazi Germany's economy relied primarily on war loot/Jewish gold/etc? Seems like one of those Hollywood myths.
Why does it matter if it'd be better or worse all the changes would be for their race only. If you're not german and you want their triumph. You're a retard. You smoke penis.
Probably not. Here's a brief gestalt:
>80% of east bloc people dead. The remainder are ruled over by feudal lords while German colonists stream in.
>Children so heavily indoctrinated by Hitler Youth that their turning in their parents regularly
>German economy becomes a bloated, stagnant mess without war to fuel it
>Moscow is put beneath a lake
>Germany is destroyed and rebuilt before they realize Germania isn't practical to be built upon a marsh
>Wehrmacht and remaining Weimar officials are retired, putting in charge the utterly ideological SS
>As soon as Hitler dies, gigantic civil war in a state that quite possibly has nukes, and certainly hasn't horrific biological and chemical weapons and won't be afraid to use them
Assuming Himmler and the SS gain power, things get really horrific, but moreover, really fucking weird. I'm talking acid trip type shit.
>Efforts to revive Aurochs, the Wooly Mammoth
>Reconstructing the Gothic language and forcing Crimean settlers to speak it
>Turning Burgundy into an "ideological paradise"
>Atlantropa, worked by the permanent Slavic slave caste
>Enforcing some bizarre pseudo-Norse religion, sending Christians to death camps
>Annherbe put in charge of education, pushes bizarre scientific theories (Glazialkosmologie, Hyperborea and Atlantis, the Oera Linda Book)
>Regression from modern living into a mor eidealistic German fantasy land with the SS serving as the landed gentry
>Neuschwanstein gets finished
Basically, what would happen if you put Julius Evola in charge of a continent
Thanks for contributing to the thread user. I look forward to seeing more of your knowledgeable posts on the board.
A Nazi controlled Europe would most likely be hampered compared to the Europe we know. One can fantasize about Albert Speer concepts or whatever, the reality is that the Nazi doctrine inherently harms growth in the sciences and arts, like how relativity got labeled as "Jewish science". The Brain drain alone would have been rediculously harmful to Europe as a whole. Secondly, given Nazi appropriate of art, it wouldn't be surprising to see other areas of Europe deprived of their own cultural heritage so Germany can have the spoils, along with the stagnation of art that comes with the repression of a authoritarian government. Finally, the economic situation in Germany alone was precarious pre-war, God knows how bad it would be across Europe, with ruined infrastructure and no Marshall plan due to an already presumably exhausted Germany. This would lead to widespread turmoil, leaving Nazi hegemony of Europe to die by a thousand cuts, and possibly several civil wars in previously occupied areas due to a power vacuum. Europe would be set back decades economically, culturally, and developmentally. Besides, if you think Europe is a shit hole I highly advise you travel to somewhere outside the top 50 HD.
>somehow
It's pretty simple desu.
A decisive victory at Moscow or Stalingrad would probably see Stalin purging his most experienced officers.
So youre saying that basically ths Nazi party and Hitlers endgame were unattainable and thus unrealistic? Therefore Europe would be worse, almost like a WW3 would be more likely to happen in this alt universe instead of the Cold War thats been faught for decades?
>Re-creating and settling dead cultures
>Adding prehistoric creatures to their country
>Obsessing over mystical dead religions
Were the nazis the ultimate LARPers?
By this logic, the Soviets shouldn't have been able to advance considering how anti-intellectual they were in the 30s, purging almost anyone with any degree of technical expertise, and pushing shitty science out of ideology like Lamarckism. And yet, in the post-WW2, they outpaced the US in several sectors, in large part by stealing German scientists.
Since the Germans will not only have these scientists, but the scientists of all of Western and Southern Europe, as well as its own academic institutions and the institutions of all their vassals, they have a much stronger starting point than the Soviets.
It would have survived until Hitler's death, or until he was ousted by some plot. One thing you need to understand with fascism is that by the very way it's organized, there's always going to be internal rivalry and power struggles within the party. The reason fascism has temporary success is because it has a single figurehead that is elevated above the chaos of the regular political party that can be looked to for authority and stability. It builds up s figurehead to be a god more or less. However, no man is immortal and once this figurehead is dead the regime then goes to the dogs so to say. The empire Hitler would have built would have inevitably fallen due to the fact that the whole system he built it upon is flawed. The show man in the high castle has a good take on this if you're interested in this stuff
They're for their people only. They had a nordicist ideology. If you're not German how would you benefit from they victory? Most of Europe isn't German. Don't you see the problem?
In a lot of ways, if you could say let Hitler live forever, or ensure that Speer or the Wehrmacht or basically anyone but the SS would take over, and then Magic their monetary problems away, the Greater German Reich might have some kind of a future, but SS domination is just too inevitable and the economic problems are just too insurmountable.
The Anglos and the Americans probably start landing in the 70s or 80s, breaching the Atlantic Wall to find a horrific Hobbesian, Nietzchean, Evolan land of neofeudal Gaueiters commanding legions of peasants with his access to firearms while nominally swearing fealty to some SS madman in a nuclear silo.
Starting a war is Keynes on turbo-steroids.
"Oy vey, a war has started! Now we have to keep the factories churning out tanks 24/7 or else we will all die!"
>purging almost anyone with any degree of technical expertise
The difference is, when Nazis purged intellectuals they shot them. When Soviets purged intellectuals, they sent them to a "labour" camp where they were forced to do science all day.
You dont think America and The UK would have agreed to trade with Greater Nazi Empire? The US had already proved itself a liabke trade partner and based off America's past refering to todaya past, there is literally no deal American companies wont pass up if its profit is high enough. No matter how dirty.
The Soviets did benefit from German scientists, sure, but they also had a very robust spy system that basically got them a large amount of info from the Manhattan project. Again you must remember that there was a reason why Oppenheimer, Fermi, and Einstein fled to the U.S from Axis countries. The Soviet Union did have some batshit ideas under Stalin, incidentally the real ramp up in Soviet Science happened after his death, but they didn't do anything as stupid as the Nazis did with their physicists. Look up how much of the Manhattan project were European refugees, imagine how many more there would be if the U.K fell.
It's virtually impossible for them to control Europe. There is not enough German people for this.
If they won and somehow achieved all their goals:
A totalitarian shithole worse than North Korea with slaves without any national identity working for their German masters, no Jews, propaganda everywhere
>If they defeated the Soviet Union
Bombed by the Western Allies (possibly with nuclear weapons), constant Slavic uprising (maybe even Slavic terrorism on a huge scale), after Hitler's death possible civil war or at least purges (I can imagine that more level-headed leaders would try to eliminate Himmler who was batshit insane)
He has a point, though. The Nazis were pro-German and a greater majority of them, especially in the high command were Nordicists. The odds are extremely high that if you're posting in this thread you would've been in a very bad position under Nazi rule.
>A place where you might be ok, as long as you all pretend to think the same and act the same.
>A place where the top minds in science are forced out because of their ethnicity.
>A place where free thinking is not only discouraged but forcefully stamped out.
>A place where a 19 year old student is executed by guillotine for handing out anti-war leaflets on a college campus.
>A place where certain kinds of music is outlawed
>A place where the state decides whether someone is worthy of life when they are born
>A place where the economy is focused on war or the preparing for war
>A place where the nation's leader craps his pants on a consistent basis
HOW THE HELL COULD ANYONE THINK THIS IS A GOOD PLACE TO LIVE? Sounds like hell.
Very good point!
I can't counter this, mostly because I dont knos shat sort of tolerance a Nazi controlled Europe would have. Would there be a greater German state with Italy and vassal states? Would there be a push to resettle old WRE lands and extend?
Maybe you know or someone else does.
How Tolerable does one think Germany would have been to its conquered states?
Are you refrencing China?
>The difference is, instead of hiking up taxes to pay off the debt afterwards, they invaded Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Lybia to steal all the oil, change the governments and made Israel a little bit greater each time.
>A place where a 19 year old student is executed by guillotine for handing out anti-war leaflets on a college camp
As opposed to a place where a 19 year old boy is either put into prison or shunned by the government and the people for drawing swastikas that in reality existed for more then 2000 years?
the more occult elements, for sure
WE
>when you realise the US economy today is just like the economy of nazi germany back then
He was asking for it, fucking krauts these days.
>embraces socialism unironcially
>oh ja america's economy ist just like ours
I would love to hear your reasoning for this.
Public funding (debts), private spending
WUZ
>what if the white man got away of his massive civilization destruction?
You can only dream cumskin. We are coming for your young women. And you can't do anything.
It was a basic mixed economy similar to what we have today. Economically the world wouldn't be much different.
Who cares, white genes are stronger so your people who are scammed into slavery would be white in two generations or less.
They were never supposed to win. WW2 was never about creating a3rd reich. It would never have worked mid 20th century
WW2 was nothing but a giant fundraiser for the diaspora in Argentina and the German people was left with the bill.
...
>A decisive victory at Moscow or Stalingrad
>simple