Let us anaylze this picture?

What are your thoughts on this picture? Is it correct? I would remove fine arts from it and divide it into two, low art and high art. High art should be at the very bottom of iceberg, because it is a total sum of all other things. Aesthetics is also at the bottom, but why? Should it not be higher up?

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Some of difficult to see things actually isn't that difficult to see.

Agreed.

But I suppose it would be better to use word "comprehend" than "see".

This is why when multicultural ideologists fawn over "muh exotic food" end up being so shallow. Overall, it is a good "iceberg".

>I would remove fine arts from it and divide it into two, low art and high art. High art should be at the very bottom of iceberg, because it is a total sum of all other things.
It is so high up because differences in high art of different cultures are pretty easy to see. For example, you won't find many educated people who don't consider Russian literature to be very different from German or French literature - due to other cultural differences - yes - but it is easier to notice than, for example, the difference in humour between Russians and Germans, or between North and South Germans.
>Aesthetics is also at the bottom, but why? Should it not be higher up?
If we are talking about aesthetic in a broader sense, it deserves to be there, as it includes the types of conduct held beautiful in a culture. Although I do not know much about their culture, I should hardly think a Chinese buddhist would understand the pathos of a Greek tragedy on the level an European would.

Nothing bad about learning from different cultures what pride and ethics are all about. Chances are that if your culture has some autistic notion of it, you are deviant as a human. True virtue is truly universal for all cultures, like love or kindness. They are eternal, they knew no borders.

Also, I forgot to say that it's an excellent picture, OP. Thank you for sharing.

> Chinese Buddhist would understand the pathos of a Greek tragedy on the level an European would
Because Buddhism is somehow less pagan than Christianity or what? I think we are lying to ourselves by believing that we can truly understand pathos of the culture that is so foreign to us in time and thoughts.

Not OP but could I ask you to elaborate on this example. What the Chinese buddhist would not understand or comprehend when seeing Greek tragedy that European would? I am really interested in this, please elaborate if you have some time.

>Although I do not know much about their culture, I should hardly think a Chinese buddhist would understand the pathos of a Greek tragedy on the level an European would.

>Because Buddhism is somehow less pagan than Christianity or what? I think we are lying to ourselves by believing that we can truly understand pathos of the culture that is so foreign to us in time and thoughts.
Because buddhism has a completely different view of human existence. To a buddhist, Electra would just be a woman unable to contain her anger - the stifling of urges and desires is the very centre of buddhist thought, making peace with whatever the state of the world is. To a Chinese, whose culture is paternalistic to a great extent, caused greatly by confucianism, which traced all morality to the relation of the father and the son, the tragedy of Prometheus, who had shown a defiant triumph against authority of the gods would be strange. As for our understanding of Greek tragedies, you to a great extent ignore the influence of Greek and Roman cultures on our own, caused to a great extent by obsessive studying and incorporating elements from them into our own art and philosophy, which in turn influences our culture. To us, ancient Greek culture is foreign, but familiar.

This iceberg has melted.

I have tried to give an answer here.

Thanks for your answer, this is a slight off topic but I often read lines from various artists and philosophers of Europe saying that tragedy is the highest or most beautiful form/genre of art? What is the explanation for this?

Probably Aristotle. He held tragedy up as the greatest of arts because it shows the greatness of the character of the tragic hero, who would follow the value he represents (Oedipus - the search for truth, Electra - righteous fury, Prometheus - defiance of authority out of love for others, Antigona (you'll forgive me, but I don't know how she's called in English) - familial love etc.) regardless of the consequences for him and the world around him. For him, it had a didactic role - through catharsis, the purification of emotions through identification with the tragic hero, he wanted people to gain those values themselves. He hated comedy for a similar reason - because it showed only the lowest of human character (its flaws), which it made fun of.

Is this what is called the paradox of tragedy? Why do we as human beings find catharsis in tragedy? Thank you for your reply.

>Is this what is called the paradox of tragedy?
I suppose, as he answers why we don't avoid negative emotions that tragedy results in - out of admiration.
>Why do we as human beings find catharsis in tragedy?
Well, catharsis is the result of identification. But the reason we are able to identify with tragic heroes so easily would be the fact that they show us the heroic personality, one we admire and aspire to have (and to a smaller extent, already have). That aspiration is the similarity that connects the observer to the tragic hero, resulting in that very particular mixture of sadness and admiration at the moment where the hero inevitably suffers.

Cultural patterns are an interesting subject.
I should order that book on it i wanted.

Title, user?

Do you have any recommendations on books that explore paradox of tragedy?

I don't know if it's been translated to English.
But the author is my role model in life... so there's that.
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Not the same guy, but the basic answer is that, perhaps slightly paradoxically, (ancient Greek) comedies were interested in showing the follies and foibles of humanity. Tragedies were interested in concepts like duty and heroism -- despite the odds or actual outcome. Some hero (or heroine, occasionally) is doomed by the fate 'the gods' have already set out, which may also be apparent to the hero, yet he struggles to complete some task anyway.

I just read a bit further after writing and notice has said something pretty similar.

That answer explains the cultural themes in tragedies, but it does not explain why human mind derives catharsis/pleasure in sorrow of tragedies?

Not really, sorry. My posts were based on a mixture of what we learned in literature, on what I know of philosophy and on my own observations based on reading tragedies. I hope someone else will post some, though, as I'm interested as well.

There is probably a mix between all those categories that iceberg shows, one does not come alone. That being said, they are all easy to see, but to understand Protestant work ethic, to understand Hindu worldview is something else though.

The heat of globalisation is melting that iceberg.