Was Soviet Union a Russian empire?

I know this is meant to be a cute political commentary but way too many of you stormcloaks actually believe this

several jewish people working at the top, literally in name only, in a country largely composed of slavic christians and mongols, does not a jewish empire make

If your actually an ex Soviet I would love to hear what else life was like

>several jewish people working at the top, literally in name only, in a country largely composed of slavic christians and mongols, does not a jewish empire make
OK, then by your logic British empire was actually the Indian empire since Brits were only at the top and a vast majority of subjects were Indians/Pakis.

I sort of want to go to bed, and I am not a real ex-soviet, I should have said
>from ex-soviet country here
There is not much new I could tell you that you probably have not heard already.
>Massive lines for everything
>shops half empty
>workers paid more then doctors
>widespread blats("You get a new radio from factory and I will put aside some good wines for you")
>Supression of local culture and symbols for the Soviet ideology
>Immigrants from the darker republics
>You can earn 4 times the money if you go work in the Eastern parts
>Not much you can buy with that money, though
>School teachers snitching on 2nd graders for giggling during the Soviet anthem(Happened to my dad)
From my experience women seem to hold more fonder memories of the Union than men do.
No one sugar coats it though.

>it was more like Jewish empire

This. The Bolsheviks were 80-85% Jewish. It was quite literally a bunch of goyim ruled over by Jews.

>a vast majority of subjects were Indians/Pakis.

lol in india maybe and only for a little bit

If the ethnicities of the head guys in charge are the only determinant factor of an empire's name - literally just the ethnicity IF THAT (i bet you jump on Israel threads every day to say the genetics aren't there) and not the ideologies - then we've got some re-evaluating to do

look at that, another biter.
Veeky Forums memes, more important than history.

Yes and Stalin is the greatest Czar

Why do you assume we're memeing? At least I'm being 100% serious. We call Portuguese empire Portuguese even though most subjects were not ethnically Portuguese, the same with British empire, the same with Roman empire, the same with Mongol or Timurid empire, empires are always named for its rulers and not for the majority of subjects. Hence it's completely fair to call early USSR Jewish.

Fine. But Stalin wasn't Jewish, nor were a majority of the leaders after Lenin.

Glad to see Veeky Forums waking up.

>empires are always named for its rulers

And for the dominant culture.
Soviet Russia wasn't about bagels and lox, klezmer and menorahs.

>far-left
>empire

>And for the dominant culture.
Incorrect. Avar Khaganate had an overwhelming Slavic majority and Slavic language was a lingua franca of Avar lands. But we still call it "Avar" simply because there was an Avar ruling class. The same with Khazars for example. In the old days countries were not named only for the ethnicity, but downright for the ruling FAMILY (Habsburg monarchy, Umayyad Caliphate, Ottoman empire, Sassanid empire, etc)

Depends on what you mean by "empire." If by empire, you mean a nation that conquers other nations and incorporates the conquered nation into it's territory, then no, the Soviet Union was not an empire. If by empire you mean nation that meddles in the affairs of other nations, then yes, the Soviet Union was an empire.

Granted. However as a layman I am still skeptical.

The first empires I think of - Roman, Byzantine, German, British, "American" - I think of the widespread iconography, language, some of the foods, etc.
When I think of Hitler, I don't think of Austria. He was a German leader. Though, not quite "emperor".

Furthermore, I still have trouble digesting the notion of a Jewish "ruling class" outside of the several bolshevik leaders who I cannot name, drawn in as outsiders more than anything, by the fact that Soviets rejected concepts like the importance of ethnicity.

And if the Soviets themselves rejected it, I don't see why we would go on calling their empire a Russian one, a Jewish one, or anything, but a Soviet one.

>nation that conquers other nations and incorporates the conquered nation into it's territory
That's literally what the USSR did, though. They went around and annexed other countries on the regular.

Austrians are ethnically German though, the name literally just means Eastern (German) Realm and the only reason they're even a country of their own is because of Habsburg/Hohenzollern rivalry.

>language
Most of Roman empire didn't speak Latin and most of Mongol empire didn't speak Mongolian.

What about the larger republics? Still a lot of Russians in Central Asia.

>On the eve of the February Revolution in 1917, of about 23,000 members of the Bolshevik party 364 (about 1.6%) were known to be ethnic Jews.[14] According to the 1922 Bolshevik party census, there were 19,564 Jewish Bolsheviks, comprising 5.21% of the total, and in the 1920s of the 417 members of the Central Executive Committee, the party Central Committee, the Presidium of the Executive of the Soviets of the USSR and the Russian Republic, the People's Commissars, 6% were ethnic Jews. Herf 2008, p. 96.

Vladimir Lenin, Vladimir Mayakovsky, Anastas Mikoyan, Vyacheslav Molotov, Sergo Ordzhonikidze, Pavel Postyshev, Nikolai Bukharin, Georgy Pyatakov, Joseph Stalin, Kliment Voroshilov, Yevgeny Zamyatin, Alexandra Kollontai, Stanislav Kosior, Nadezhda Krupskaya, Alexei Rykov, Timofei Sapronov, Elena Stasova, Andrei Zhdanov, Ivan Skvortsov-Stepanov,Vladimir Bonch-Bruyevich, Alexander Shliapnikov, Pavel Dybenko, Nikolai Gorbunov, Georgy Chicherin, Sergey Kirov, Béla Kun, Alexander Yegorov, Vasily Blyukher, Semyon Budyonny,Mikhail Tukhachevsky, Semyon Timoshenko, Boris Shaposhnikov, Grigory Kulik :

None of them Jews

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Bolshevik
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_People's_Commissars
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshal_of_the_Soviet_Union

Why do /pol/tards lie so much?
What higher interests could they have?

...

Post actual sources cited on page faggot,not from a neo-nazi you plucked it out of.

Contrary to you I gave you a list of higher Soviet functionaries all belonging to the administration of the central government.

>neo-nazi
Aaaand the debate is over.

>wikipedia

what are you doing user? It's not like the jew thing is some sort of hidden info, only in the west maybe but in russia most people knwo this shit, my mom redpilled me on this shit, who got redpilled by her parents etc. (russian here who's family had left russia)

Another Eastern Euro here although not Russian, the communist-jew connection is extremely known where I come from because our ancestors actually lived through that shit. Not just in Russia but in Hungary for example there was a bolshevik revolution right after WW1 started by Bela Kohn, a Transylvanian jew.

They were still defined by the iconography
I couldn't tell you shit about the ruling classes, i just know about Roman statues, pastimes, and Mongolian horses.

Wouldn't we call the Roman empire an Italian empire if it was about ethnicity?
I give you that we could, but only in the same sense that it's a "Latin" empire.
Both of these names are supplementary and only exist to draw focus to one key area, perhaps make a commentary about it.

To call the Soviet Empire a Jewish Empire or even *the* Jewish empire screams unfair to me for this reason. There's hardly anything Jewish about it, and what's more is that such a statement could only lead to an unfair commentary on the Jews as being inherently subversive.

>Wouldn't we call the Roman empire an Italian empire if it was about ethnicity?
Probably because Romans/Latins predate Italian ethnogenesis? It would be anachronism.

>There's hardly anything Jewish about it
For one, it followed a Jewish ideology (Marxist socialism).

igen, checked baszdmeg

To call Marxist Socialism a "jewish ideology" follows the same flawed reasoning we're debating here.

Fantastic, the OP never wanted this debate anyway.
The question was whether the USSR was a *Russian* Empire.

Calling Marxism non-Jewish would be like calling Platonism non-Greek. It doesn't make any sense.

And the answer is that it was not.

I'm guessing you are too btfo to reply.

So your anecdotal evidence of living in an a Capitalist oligarch ruled shithole where Jews are blamed for the Soviet union trumps empirical evidence?

Good to know.

Also, quite ironic that you post a small brained reaction image, since you are too dumb to know Wikipedia posts the ethnic backgrounds of the people I have posted.

Also have some more non-jewish early Soviet ministers and functionaries:

Olof Aschberg, Yakov Ganetsky,Vyacheslav Menzhinsky, Alexander Bogdanov, Iosif Adamovich, Sultan Majid Afandiyev, Konstantin Akashev, Zigmas Angarietis, Jaan Anvelt, Inessa Armand, Aleksandra Artyukhina, Georgi Atarbekov, Varlam Avanesov, Ivan Babushkin, Aleksei Badayev, Vladimir Bazarov, Demyan Bedny, Lavrentiy Beria, Reinholds Bērziņš, Stanisław Bobiński
, Vladimir Bobrovsky, Gleb Ivanovich Bokii, Yevgenia Bosch, Mikhail Brusnev, Nikolai Bryukhanov, Nikolai Bulganin, Vasily Chapayev, Alexander Chervyakov, Vlas Chubar, Demyan Bedny

Non-Russian shouldn't really be allowed to hold an opinion on Russia. It's like a football player trying to comment on hockey strategy.

>People shouldn't have opinions on foreign nations

Shame we don't have retard of the day awards, pidor.

And a shitload more actually, if anyone wants to see how debunked the nazi conspiracy is that was devised as a realpolitik casus beli for their genocidal colonial war plan known as Generalplan Ost, he only but has to see how many of these people were or were not jews:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Old_Bolsheviks

No wonder your country is so shit.

Its populated by retards like you.

Soviet Union was the best that ever happened to your god forsaken land of retardation.

And the jew outs himself

>Soviet Union was the best that ever happened
The best thing that ever happened to Russia was a regime that caused 5 consecutive famines in a span of 20 years?

>"I called him a jew, that will show him"

There were only two actual famines , one was the Russian Civil War famine, caused by White Russian mercenaries who plunged the country into civil strife, and the other is forced collectivization famine, directly caused by seditionary Kulaks.

But the strange thing about Jewishness is that it's simultaneously tied to a religion which has nothing to do with the ideology. It's not a useful name.

Why is it that the only people who want to call Marxism a "jewish ideology" simultaneously seek to label jews global conspirators and wish harm upon them?
Perhaps people feel safer discussing Platonism as Greek Philosophy as its founders lived in the Greek Empire (there's that confounded naming convention again), which is not quite so dangerously vilified as a certain minority population.

But you are one. It's a shame Alexander III didn't slaughter your kind down to the last child.

>b-b-but wikipedia says you're just a racist
>debunked
>soviet union was the best that ever happened

You're actually retarded.

herp-a-dee-derp

You're worse than a Jew. You're a commie apologist.

"Losing the debate? I'l keep calling him Jew"

It actually was.

And to answer OP, yes the Soviet Union was an empire, because all socialism is expansionist, since that is its goal. The greatness of Russia only came through the national idea of Bolshevism.

>Vladimir Lenin
>Not a Jew

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You're telling me that a regime that starved millions of Russian and Ukrainian children to death, banned the Orthodox church, exiled the intelligentsia, the aristocracy and the clergy (read: lowered the collective IQ of the nation by 20 points), completely shat on Russian culture, criminalized anti-semitism, ceded a large chunk of territory to the enemy and generally served nobody's interests other than jews and their Kraut partners-in-crime, was somehow the best thing to ever happen to Russia? The fucking audacity of this nigger.

>Jeffrey Herf
I'm in tears

lol wat?

this.

>jewish empire

FVCKIN stormfags get off my board!!

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

This is not your board.

You're fucking discussing. (Russian here). Thank fuck my family fled at the right time, before your kind burnt the family records, the old writings, traces of northern culture, the churches, killed the priests, and systematically got rid of the descendants of the Rus. Fuck the bolsheviks, fuck communism, fuck the jews, fuck the capitalists of today, fuck the international ruling elite, fuck modern culture, fuck all of it and fuck you. This isn't what my ancestors died for.

If by Empire, you mean "Strong Centralization over a multiethnic/cultural periphery," then yes, I suppose it was, considering that Center was Ethnic Russia based around Moscow.

In addition by making the "overall" culture Russified (i.e. Russian as a Lingua Franca), I suppose we can call it a Russian empire.

>I have been seeing this remark on his and internet more and more lately.
Friend, Historians have been discussing USSR as Ruskie Empire 2.0 ever since the early days of the Cold War.

>mentions the word "jew"
>fucking stormfags neo nazis omg
Read the fucking thread, anyone who has family that lived in those times is aware of this shit. This is only a secret in the "west".

>it was more like Jewish empire.
Not at all. They were atheists.

>le jew means judaism maymay

The reason Jews joined the Bolsheviks was because they were one of the only political movements that offered an alternative to the state-sponsored antisemitic pogroms of Tsarist Russia.

However, the assertion that the USSR was a Jewish Empire or some sort is absurd. In the 1930s Stalin deliberately suppressed information about Lenin's Jewish heritage from the public, and in the 1950s launched an antisemitic purge. Ana Pauker was one such victim, who was imprisoned for appearing too content with the establishment of the state of Israel. Antisemitism was also used as an attempt to gain support for the new communist regimes of several Eastern bloc countries (e.g. Czechoslovakia, Poland) by the Kremlin.

>Ana Pauker was one such victim, who was imprisoned for appearing too content with the establishment of the state of Israel.
Curiously asspull interpretation considering Stalin himself vouched for the establishment of Israel and the USSR voted for it in the UNGA Resolution 181.

>Generalplan Ost
bye rddit

OR antisemitism is incredibly common and has been in Eastern Europe for a really long time, officially and unofficially. next you idiots will be telling me Mao was a jew also.

this desu.

>antisemitism is incredibly common and has been in Eastern Europe for a really long time
And for a good reason.

Were the seditious Kulaks the people who continued to forcibly collect and export grain while in an extended drought? Because I was under the impression that that was outside of their wheelhouse and was actually under the control of the politburo or more specifically Stalin and Kruschev.

and fuck you too

please, enlighten me more about this 3000 year old cabal of world-destabilizing secret masterminds who can shape the destiny of our species without ever being uncovered, proven, or even outed by one of their own.

idiot

During several centuries before WW2, European jewry was almost all located in Eastern Europe, especially in Poland (paradisus iudaeorum) and later the Pale of Settlement, eastern periphery of Austria-Hungary, and around the Black Sea coast.

Meanwhile western Europe has all but kicked them the fuck out many centuries prior, so anti-semitic prejudice was less common there. But if you take a peek to the Middle Ages when they were still there, especially in Spain during reconquista and France, the jews were absolutely loathed.

Point is, all people who live around jews, end up hating their guts.

I'm actually with you on this, I just don't think it's because of their being secret lizard-people who control our fate

but for the sake of debate,

>what is the Umayyad Caliphate

14% of the first USSR Central Committee (ruling body) was Jewish

see pic related

No idea where you /pol/beards get this "85%" figure from. Probably some sand nigger publication.

>95% of central committee

flat out lie

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Committee_elected_by_the_12th_Congress_of_the_Russian_Communist_Party_(Bolsheviks)

>Jewish empire

I'm so glad Veeky Forums hasn't been afraid to name them lately.

Loads of Jews died under the Bolsheviks, and they never "Criminalized anti-semitism"

>control our fate
That's a strawman you built, I never said that. The common idea parroted by (((scholars))) is that jews are resented out of jealousy because of their vast power and wealth, yet in the middle ages they weren't wealthy or powerful but people still hated them. It really isn't about controlling or not controlling anything, even the poorest jew is repugnant.

>bolschewikipedia
Really getting tired of you. Don't you have something better to do?

Stalin initially supported Israel because it was socialist.

However when pan-arabism became a better tool to fuck with the western powers with he switched sides. Stalin in his old age also became senile and this led to bouts of random anti-semitism.

If wikipedia triggers you so much, prove that the non-jews there were actually jewish

I'll wait

He didn't switch sides, it was the Israelis who did, effectively betraying Stalin and abandoning the USSR. You can make the case that the USSR from the 60s onwards wasn't a jew controlled country anymore and not coincidentally this was also the most humane and sane period in Soviet history.

>Anything that disproves my rhetoric is Jews so I refuse to believe it!

wewlad. Keep working for that low IQ stereotype you neckbeards got

Jeffrey Herf is a jew.

How did Israel "abandon and betray the USSR" exactly.

And the least Jewish politburo was at the height of Stalinist purges and deaths, i.e. the late 30s/early 40s.

omg no wai! spooky!

how does this make what he said wrong? Were his statistics wrong? Were those non-jews he mentioned actually jewish?

Prove this by all means

Why are the least educated/developed regions of the world always the most anti-semitic? Why are those with the most development and highest IQ's/standards of living the least? Really makes me think

By allying with the west during the Suez crisis and later terminating contracts with the Soviets.

>Why are the most jew-infested regions of the world always the most anti-semitic?
Fixed that for you.

Stalin was dead by then

this is /pol/-tier education

P.S., Suez would have been better off under West than some stupid sand nigger commie dictator

>Stalin was dead by then
Your point?

Virtually no Jews live in the most anti-semitic states. Most Jews live in the US, which loves Jews except for the black population. Which, curiously, is also the lowest IQ and developed.

>uez would have been better off under West than some stupid sand nigger commie dictator

Israel couldn't have betrayed Stalin during the Suez crisis since he was dead

Yes. No. Depends on how you define empire.
Why do people on Veeky Forums keep making these threads asking meaningless questions?

t. ahmed

Lay off the cheeseburgers

>Virtually no Jews live in the most anti-semitic states.
The most anti-semitic states in the world are those bordering Israel.

>Most Jews live in the US, which loves Jews except for the black population.
All the jew lovers are from the US south, which is both dismally poor and pretty much free of jews. Good job refuting your own theory.

I'm Hungarian, not Arabic.

>The most anti-semitic states in the world are those bordering Israel

Well, they're butthurt over being BTFO'd so much I imagine. But that's beside the point

Malaysia and Somalia are more or less the same level as anti-semitic and aren't anywhere near Israel

>All the jew lovers are from the US south, which is both dismally poor and pretty much free of jews. Good job refuting your own theory.

wut? The affluent high-educated liberals of the US are very much against anti-semitism.

The KKK and other anti-semitic groups find their support among the low-IQ south

Take a list of states by IQ, the most anti-semitic will be bottom tier and the least will be top-tier. This is a fact that obviously triggers you, tiny brain.