Why isn't Spain still a great power?
Britain and France are massively influential and wealthy, thanks to spreading their language and culture worldwide during the days of empire.
Spain (and to a lesser extent Portugal) did exactly the same thing with their massive map-spanning empire, but for some reason they are much poorer and are disrespected.
Why is this?
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Gold really fucked them over bad. Their attitudes towards the colonies were also very, very different to those of the British and to an extent the French.
>Britain and France are massively influential and wealthy
They were pants-on-head retarded with mercantilist economic policies, so when they imported huge amounts of stolen gold/silver as alluded to, their economy was ruined.
Throw in the Spanish Armadas (yes, plural) being sunk and the Peninsular War, and Spain couldn't handle the strains.
Spaniards are lazy and easily-aggravated
They lack the pragmatism, coolness and industry of Frenchmen and Britons
>Why isn't Spain still a great power?
>Population of the UK
66 million
>Population of France
67 million
>Population of Spain
47 million
Jeez I wonder why countries with almost 20 million more people are more relevant!
Spain treated their subjects way nicer than Britain or France
>industry of Frenchmen and Britons
The Spanish empire started in the 1490s and is not comparable to the XIX century British or French empires.
From 1490s to 1720, the empire wasnt Spanish, it was Castilian (people from the Kingdom of Aragon couldnt trade with or emmigrate to the Americas) so they could only use 3/4s of the population in the colonization effort. Although the territories werent seen as colonies, they were Kingdoms, like Naples or the Netherlands.
The Americas were colonized by half medieval half renaissance people, not people with a capitalist understanding of economy.
Spain didnt have a very large population, France and Britain had around 40 million people in the late 1800s when their empires were at their peak, while Spain's population grew from an estimate of 7 millions in the 1500s to 10.2 millions in 1785 when the first good census was produced.
In the 1600s the population of Spain didnt grow and may have even fallen due to disease, wars and emmigration to the Americas.
Also, Spain didnt have steam ships back then
Spain had 2 very destructive events comparable to the destruction caused by world wars or the 30 years war in north germany, the war of Spanish succession which was fought in Spain by the other European powers, and the Peninsular war of Napoleon. Apart from that, they were almost constantly at war from 1520 to the end of the war of Spanish Succession, often against many great powers simultaneously (France, England, Dutch, Ottomans)
Spain lost their empire when they were occupied by Napoleon and the king of Spain was replaced with Napoleons brother.
When Spain became a sovereign country again they would have had to fight a war against most of Latin America to reconquer them.
Something they tried with the Pablo Morillo expedition which reconquered shortly Venezuela and Colombia, but it was a very bloody issue.
after that Spain had civil wars every few years between conservative monarchists and republicans, and it only ended with Francos absolute victory.
>Why isn't Spain still a great power?
MASONES Y LIBERALES.HIJOS DE PUTA.
El hijo de puta de RIEGO además de traidor fue la principal razón por la cual Bolivar y San Martín (también MASONES) fueran derrotando a los nucleos realistas. Y si esto no fuera poco el cabronazo hizo que los realistas Mexicanos se convirtieran en independentistas,apoyando el masonazo cabrón todo esto.RIEGO CABRÓN OJALA ESTES ARDIENDO EN EL INFIERNO
cristero culoardido detectado
a llorar a la iglesia
>ese traductor google de mierda.
>Apoya a Riego
NORMAL que seas retrasado
this is quite interesting
El perro cobarde de SAN MARTÍN no atacó Perú y Chile hasta que el HIJO DE PUTA de RIEGO dejó de enviar tropas para reforzar al Virreinato que estaba GANANDO.RIEGO MASÓN marioneta BRITÁNICA.
gallego estupido, this is an english speaking board
the only reason for you losing all your new world dominions is your sheer incompetence
all of the former spanish colonies are now shitholes because we could not help ourselves out of the ignorant and corrupt heritage from your decadent inbred culture
fuck you and fuck your broken country and your inbred as fuck monarchs
viva san martin
viva la patria
t.masón follaniños
Muerete rata.Un perro sin su amo se muere de hambre, de la misma manera que los sudacas necesitan a ESPAÑA para no morirse de HAMBRE
So you should've keep the jews, and some moors. And instead of killing the natives, build a good relationship with them. Now your country is paying for being so mean.
>de la misma manera que los sudacas necesitan a ESPAÑA
wtf?
jajaja esos delirios. El socio/imperio del cual dependemos es USA. Ezpanita no es relevante hace mas de un siglo
As soon as Spain let the Jews back in their economy went in the gutter.
That's the problem, by not exploiting them the Spanish god less profit and power out of its colonies
because the jews or because spain was going down already?
The empired flourished when the human garbage called the jews and muslims were expelled
>And instead of killing the natives
After the conquest the natives were treated nicely.They fought in the royalist side during the independence war
>Now your country is paying for being so mean
Spain is the main source of goodness the world has ever had
The jews are crypto masons, therefor anti-Spanish garbage
Sudaca muerto de hambre limpiame LOS PLATOS
t. Brown indian hispanista larping as Spaniard.
Your argument:
>population = influence/ being a 'great power'
But:
>Bangaldesh population = 164 million
>United Kingdom population = 66 million
By your logic, Bangladesh should be running this shit
> instead of killing the natives
Do people really believe this shit? Spain treated natives way better than other countries did. Spain respected the native nobility, built universities, cathedrals, churches, roads, even aqueducts.
Veracruz, Acapulco and Manila were some of the most important trade cities in the world.
Art proliferated in Peru and Mexico and a long etc.
If Spain had the population of Italy it would have a bigger GDP than Italy and probably a way bigger presence in world politics as it would be by far the most important Spanish speaking country.
This. People think because of confirmed Protestant libel that Spain treated the Natives bad. Spain didn't treat the natives worse than they treated themselves.
They also destroyed their culture, and caused an identity crisis that still plagues people in latin america. It's why they are ok being subservient to US imperialism and actually mask it as a form of nationalism. It's strange that all those who called themselves nationalists want to be cucked by corporations and Washington.
>Britain and France are massively influential and wealthy
ayyyyyyy
The identity crisis was created by masons that tried to destroy the Spanish cultural heritage and ended up creating an abortion.Indians had a very hispanized identity and that is why they fought for Spain in the independence wars.Masons being rats is part of their identity
>The empired flourished when the human garbage called the jews and muslims were expelled
No, the empire flourished while the silver was flowing from america.
>After the conquest the natives were treated nicely.They fought in the royalist side during the independence war
Some of them were treated nicely indeed. Other are still figthing for their ancestral lands.
And yes, some of them fought in the royalist army, but not all of them.
Anyway the point is , it was good when you were nice with the natives, like when they helped kicking the anglo scum out of Cartagena.
You were less worse than the anglo or the french. But you were mean as fuck.
Tons of natives were enslaved in the mines.
Tainos were wiped.
Tenochtitlan was destroyed.
Most codices were lost.
and so forth.
>and to a lesser extent Portugal
Have you seen how big Brazil is?
Pretty sure there was a lot of indians still rebelling and actively at war with the Spaniards throughout the entire colonial history.
>No, the empire flourished while the silver was flowing from america.
Please the trade with Flandes alone was more profitable than all the silver and gold from America.
>Pretty sure there was a lot of indians still rebelling and actively at war with the Spaniards throughout the entire colonial history.
Mayans.They are still chimping out in modern Mexico but the royalist focus were in Peru,Bolivia and Mexico.
>Please the trade with Flandes alone was more profitable than all the silver and gold from America.
are you high , or you are trolling
Spain got fucked hardcore by economic mismanagement.
>instead of killing the natives
>destroyed their culture
pick ONE. God, the americas would be a fucking paradise if all the natives were killed, and we imported no blacks. We should have just used kept using Irish.
It is true.Flandes contributed more fiscally and imported things like salt,wool and iron at a high price.They also produced most of the jewelry,painting,hangings and cloath in Europe.The colonies were never the main focus of the empire
Disastrous wars and a lack of internal development on Spain's part.
It didn't help that the Spaniards hoarded all their gold rather than invest it cleverly like the other fellas did
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Yes I'm sure they were all "Mayans"
That comment is nonsense
Spain always had a much smaller population than France, even in Roman times.
Spain is dry and with difficult terrain.
The Independence of Latin American countries happened because of the Spanish descended colonial elites, it was not a popular movement, the natives (where they were demographically relevant) tended to prefer the crown. The far away tirant on the other side of the ocean is preferable to the one who is close to you.
And Spain treated natives much better than the other colonial powers (Except perhaps France).
In British America the natives were not a part of society, and only existed to be displaced, pushed to the west, to make room for more white settlers and their black slaves.
In Spanish America natives were most of society.
And closer in time, bushmen and australian aborigines were hunted like pests.
Argentina evitó la hambruna en España durante el gobierno de Franco tras la segunda guerra mundial.
Millones de españoles emigraron a America Latina en el siglo XIX y principios del siglo XX.
España fue un desastre por más de un siglo y medio.
you still don't realize how big was what you got for a while.
en.wikipedia.org
The inflation produced by the silver changed the game worldwide.
I never said killing them, I only had a problem with the culture they destroyed (destruction of codices, quipus, banning dramas and dances, banning fucking amaranth, banning maya writing, razing their cities and censoring indian literature)
Deja de hacerle caso al subnormal ese, seguramente ni sea español.
>Destroying an evil culture
>Bad
They integrated the few good things that they had into the colonial culture
Still Flandes was more important and Castile contributed most of the money to the crown
>the Independence of Latin American countries happened because of the Spanish descended colonial elites, it was not a popular movement,
It had strong popular support tho.
>the natives (where they were demographically relevant) tended to prefer the crown
Not all of them, you are oversimplifying something really complex. See funfact, see the Lautaro lodge. The lodge of Bolivar and San martin was named after a mapuche warrior that fought against the crow.
kek,ok.
Still you dont realize how big was it.
Nothing of what I said was evil. The only thing I would agree to get rid of was the human sacrifices. Everything else was fine. They honestly destroyedso many great things and replaced it with the trash we have today in latin america.
What great things? Pre columbian culture is inferior so they kept the food and just that.Natives also had their own laws they simply got integrated eventually through marriages and cultural exchange
>it's not that they were incompetent, corrupt shitholes, it was a jewish conspiracy!
is this you user?
When those leeches were expeled Spain became the mightiest empire in mankind's history,When the masonic trash started rulling again the empire collapsed as they sabotaged it from the inside.RIEGO CABRÓN VETE AL PAREDÓN
>Spanish cultural heritage
LOL JUST MARRY YOUR COUSINS LMAO
they put ciudad de mexico on top of this. Fucking barbarians.
Usted es arabe.
Lo siento.
Well for one broadly speaking we could have had a third culotural sphere vs the two we have today (east vs. west).
That wasn't their populations in 1492 fuckwit
*cultural
>we
>indian heritage
Just kill your babies lmao
It was an inneficient city.Only impressive for neolithic people
Doubt it.
You are right
>Population of England
7 million
>Populaton of France
23 million
>Population of Castile
5 million
>population of Aragon
1 million
The Spanish empire overachived.It is the greatest feat of greatness that was ever assembled
>inneficient city
>bigger than london (the biggest eurocity at the time), with no hungry people roaming the streets.
Ciudad de mexico instead is a pollution-misery nest
>The Spanish empire overachived.It is the greatest feat of greatness that was ever assembled
HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA
ok, now I know you're just baiting
>Become the world's first super power with 1/4 of the population of your neighbour
Nothing comes close
Spain is like that dude that wins the lottery. A huge prize. But after some months is poor again because he can't handle it.
the evil culture was not that one, boi
The inquisition killed 300 people in 300 years.Mostly English protestants.The Aztecs killed 8 thousand babies a month
>8 thousand babies a month
>266.666 babies per day
> 11.11 babies per hour
without sleeping.
I guess who made the count.
that's how they kept Tenochtitlan afloat
they used the dead babies for buoyancy
>stabbing babies takes a lot of time
you right.
Torturing people takes time.
cleaning that mess takes time.
The Spanish empire lasted twice as much as the Brittish empire.And 6 times more than any French empire
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reminder Mel Brooks is still alive and Veeky Forums's guy
>in charge of shitty islands in name only
>"we empire xD"
The Spanish "empire" only served as a strawman to make the good ol' USA look badass when we beat the shit out of you inbred degenerate mutant fucks.
From 1504 until 1820 is more than 300 years pal.I would say that the empire started with the invasion of the Canary islands but that is a bit of an streech
t. Jean Pierre Al-Pashtur
Spain was a main focus of culture in that time, boi.
>Spain built universities
That the natives could not attend
The natives not only could attend, the native ruling class was outright ennobled into Spanish aristocracy. The fucking house of Montezuma still exists for example.
3 reasons:
Freemasonry
Jews
Communists
They really were barbarians. The moors let them off too easy.
And their titles were slowly eroded, as evidence by their constant need to reclaim their titles begging the court of spain.
Their empire was already becoming irrelevant by the 1700s. The dutch, british and french had already overtaken them by then.
Are there any good books on the Spanish colonial empire in the New World? Preferably not lefty
>muh oppressed blacks/injuns
focused.
Ironically all the literature about how supposedly evil Spanish colonists were was written by Anglos who are just projecting their own guilt over how they treated niggers.
You should read Eduardo Galleano's work.
Not really
>And their titles were slowly eroded
As new titles were constantly created and native law was retarded. Still you can find building from the Montezumas in Spain as they married to the Spanish nobility
silver inflation apparently
protestants were better at economics than catholics
no space program
Spain was a disaster after the Penninsula War desu. Civil War after Civil War between Monarchists Republicans until Franco won the last Civil War.
spain never commonwealthed
>Commonwealth
>Relevant
>ctrl-f "Habsburgs"
>0 results
Now don't restrain yourself in putting me in my place if it so happens that I'm speaking out of my ass, but wasn't it in entering in a union with the Habsburg Austrians that the Spaniards were reduced to being their buttboy for the coming decades. Weren't the Spanish from the on doomed to be servile to Austrian interests, by bankrupting themselves to keep the Austrian Netherlands under them, or coming into direct confrontation with the French in the Thirty years' war with Rocroi being the embodiment of them handing over "no. 1 in Yurop" status to the French? And not only that, but it aggravated the French against them to be in league with the Habsburgs to the extent that the French then toiled all the way into the Spanish war of succession with Spain becoming a French puppet from then on.
But again, this is only what I've heard, and I'd like conformation before I dive anymore into this.
>or coming into direct confrontation with the French in the Thirty years
France entered the war for greed.Spain was just defending christianity
Eh, there would have been that of course, but by how late they'd infringed on it, you can tell that a lot of it was also intermixed with helping out the Austrian Habsburgs who weren't really winning at that point.
You are right. Charles pushed his claims in Lombardy which caused 4 consecutive wars with France and then chimped out to get Burgandy back which caused another war. All of this paid by Castile and Flandes
>All of this paid by Castile and Flandes
Ah thanks, this would stick with the strands of information I got about the Spanish basically being screwed over by the Habsburgs. Their non-sensical 180° from "we care about colonies nao" to "we care about Yurop claims nao" is what makes it transluscent how the Habsburgs diverted their interests away from them, and to securing Austrian claims instead.