Please explain how the Trinity is not polytheism.
In two thousand years of Christian philosophy the best that the most brilliant Christian theologians have been able to come up with is "this doesn't make sense, it's a Holy Mystery".
Why don't you just worship the God instead of a cross?
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One, threefold God. One God, manifesting Himself to us in three persons: Father, Son, and Spirit.
John 1:1 says that the Word (Jesus) was with God and was God.
In John 10:30 Jesus said that He and the Father are one.
In John 14:9 He said that anyone who has seen Him has seen the Father.
In Colossians 1:15 Paul wrote that Jesus is the (visible) image of the invisible God.
In Hebrews 1:3 Jesus is called the exact representation of God’s glory
In Hebrews 1:8 God Himself called Jesus God.
God’s Spirit is presumed to be one and the same with God just as your spirit is presumed to be one and the same with you. So if God and Jesus are one and the same, and God and His Spirit are one and the Same, then the three are one.
There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 45:5-6). Yet there are three persons presented as deity in Scripture: the Father (John 6:27; Colossians 1:3), the Son (John 1:1-3, 14; 8:24; 20:28-29; Romans 9:5; Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1; Hebrews 1:10-12) and the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17; Acts 5:3-4; 2 Samuel 23:2-3; 2 Corinthians 3:18). Lastly, these three are presented as distinct persons (John 8:16-18; Luke 11:1; 3:21-22; Galatians 4:6). Thus from Scripture we learn that although there is one God, there are three distinct persons who are deity. So the Trinity is the biblical position to hold to once one examines what Scripture teaches.
Now you tell me why Mohammad knew he was dealing with the devil, and almost killed himself over it, and you can't figure that out 1400 years later, with Google at your fingertips.
>Please explain how the Trinity is not polytheism.
What if it """is"""? Even if it is, it does not detract from the central message of Christianity, that the death of Jesus was necessary and made possible the salvation of mankind. Beside's, a tri-une deity is in some respects not dissimilar to a deity with 99 names. How is the 99 names not polytheism, when they encourage the faithful to look at God from different angles?
> Why don't you just worship the God instead of a cross?
How else are you supposed to worship something, for all purposes, so abstract? Besides, iconoclasm detracts more from a worshipful environment then adds to it. It was through Christ's death on the cross that Christianity is made real.
How is Islamic monotheism not simply obsession with the number one, more, mono-ism then monotheism?
Did muslims just drop all the core greek philosophy or what?
Ice, liquid and steam are all different
Ice is not liquid, liquid is not steam and steam is not ice but they are all different froms of water or H2o
Same can be said about the trinity
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all different but they are all God
Doesn't Yahweh literally say that there are multiple gods when punishing Egypt
it's idolatry
Water doesn't pray to ice who impregnated the spring which gave birth to it
The Monk-- You should know, Abu-Salamah, that Mohammed was from the tribe of Koreish, and descendant of Ishmail, son of Hagar the Egyptian, slave of Sarah, spouse of Abraham. He was an Arab nomad and camel driver. In his trips, he came to Jerusalem where he had been welcomed by a Christian Nestorian, called Buheira. When he asked Mohammed about his religion, he found him to be one of the pagans. Those were the sons of Ishmail. They worshipped an idol called AL-AKBAR (the greatest). They used to put around him poems containing desire and love written on tablets which they suspended over that idol. They served for prayers and had been called the seven "usudallakat" (suspended). When he (Buheira) knew that he (Mohammed) was from that tribe, he got sympathy for him, due to the similarity of languages, the friendship, and the desire of knowledge. Then he read to him some chapters from the Gospels, the Bible and the Psalms. When he returned home, he said to his friends, " Woe unto you! You are in flagrant error and your worship is null and unprofitable". They told him, " What is your problem, Mohammed?" He answered, " I found the true God." They asked, " What is his name?" He replied, " His name is ALLAH. He created the heaven and the earth and all creatures in it. He sent me to you as a light and a sign of his compassion." They said, " Could you show him to us to know where he is?" He said, " He resides in the heaven and sees all, but he is invisible." They told him, " We have a deity which we worship and honor. We inherited this worship from our ancestors who gave us the liberty to satisfy our desires with everything we own." Then Mohammed told them, " That one who sent me to you told me that he grants you what is better and greater than what you say." They asked, " What is it?" He said, " It is a paradise where he transfers you after your death. It contains food, drinks, and women." They asked, " What is the form of the food, drink, and women"
This explanation is actually the modalist heresy and is not a useful way of thinking about the trinity.
He replied, " Rivers of honey, milk and wine, with beautiful women; there you will be not thirsty nor full of tears." they said, " Are you the Messenger of God?" He replied, " Yes." They said, " We fear our god AL-AKBAR." He said, " worship God and honor AL-AKBAR." Some of them said, " We believe in God, you said the truth," Then he passed through another group from koreish, Muhammed's tribe. He, later met another group. Those people allowed their members to marry their daughters and sisters. Those were their customs, before they knew God. Mohammed wrote to Buheira all what happened to him. Buheira prohibited those customs and with big efforts, he succeeded to draw them to the first cousins. When he got enough adherents from Arabs and their aristocracy, some remained reticent. Then he desired the monarchy (sovereignty) for himself and formed an armed detachment to fight his contradictors and said, " Those who enter the Islam, will be safe;" and said, " The inhabitants of the heaven and the earth entered the Islam by their will and (some) by force." Then, he attacked a group convinced another group with adorned words and arguments. His target was to rule them and rush them in order to reach the rest of women, because he was very avid of them. He desired them at a high degree. In confirmation of that, he was not satisfied with his numerous women, but desired Zeid's wife when he saw her and took her from him by force, pretending that God gave her to him as a wife, instead of Zeid. He spoke to his followers in this concern saying, " After Zeid had accomplished his desires from her, We (God) gave her to you as a wife, Mohammed." He pretended that God inspired him to do so. But his followers said, " Messenger of God, what God granted you is not permitted to anyone else."
The Monk-- So, Abu-Salamah, you believe in all what your Prophet mentioned in your Book and that (this book) was inspired by God?
The Moslem-- Yes, everything mentioned in the Koran was inspired to Mohammed.
The Monk-- The Koran doesn't mention that the Christ is the Spirit of God and his Word given by God to Mary?
The Moslem-- Not eternal (word) but created.
The Monk-- Was God, at any time, dumb, deaf, or empty from any word or spirit?
The Moslem--God forbid! God, his Word and Spirit are always (present).
The Monk-- Is God's Word Creator or created?
The Moslem-- Creator.
The Monk-- You worship God along with his Spirit and Word, isn't it?
The Moslem-- I adore God, His Word and His Spirit.
The Monk-- Say now, then, " I believe in God, in His Spirit and in His Word."
The Moslem-- I believe in God and in His Spirit and in His Word. But I do not make them three, but one God.
The Monk-- This is my opinion, too; and my beliefs and those of all Christians of Orthodox faith. I like now to explain the meanings of the Holy Eternity: the Father is God; the Son is His Word; and the third (person is) the Holy Spirit.
The Prince was laying down. He then stood up, glanced to the Moslem, laughed and told him,-- " Abu-Salamah, the Monk Christianized you and introduced you to the Christian's religion; you are then Christian."
Abu-Salamah was furious. Then, a jurisprudent called Abul-Fadl Al-Halabi, told his friends: If you had permitted me from the beginning, I had a dialogue with the Monk and I showed you his defeat. Afterwards, he looked at the Prince and said, -- "Be informed, O Prince, that the non-believers are in the fire (in the hell) and whoever approaches them burns himself, and Satan who is the spirit of the tyranny speaks through their mouths."
sourcebooks.fordham.edu
Christianity is a mystery cult you dip if you actually figured out how the trinity thing worked you would go mad.
>god exists outside our reality and understanding
>BUT WHY ISN'T HE AND HIS ACTIONS EASY TO UNDERSTAND FROM OUR FRAME OF REFERENCE
?
Think of it this way. If God were to imagine God, what would he imagine? When we imagine something, we see an image, be it symbol or word or remembered form or even a feeling, analogous to the object. If God, an in infinite mind, were to make this image, what else could he make but a perfect image of himself in its totality, but that same God? And if God is eternal, then this image, or Logos (meaning Word and the Greek root of Logo), is an eternal part of the infinite God.
Now Christians believe that mankind is made in the image of God, in the sense we have free will and the capacity to know God when our wills are one and the same. Jesus Christ, both Man and God, is proof to those facts. If you don't think that that is at least possible for God, then you don't understanding one who willed it.
Now the Holy Spirit is a far more difficult nut to crack because it's definitions differ in Jewish and Christian traditions, and the most Jewish theology on the matter Jewish Tradition is known as the Ruach Hakodesh, and is identified with the spirit through which the prophets gained their knowledge. In Rabbinical Schools, Rashi, a 11th century theologian who's commentary accompanies every copy of the Talmud, identified it as Da'at. In Kabbalah, Da'at is our only knowledge of God, a synthesis of all ten of God's emanations. Chakmah and Binah, also being the forces that bound and loosed every aspect of creation, and in Genesis he is identified as the cause of creation prior to it's manifestation. Therefore we see the Holy Spirit as the essence of God behind all of creation, and an individual person as specified by Jesus in John 14: 15-17 and declared in the 1 John 5:7.
>WHY CANT I FIT THE ENTIRE OCEAN IN THIS CUP???
God is multi-threaded. They share the same possessor (Omnipotent), data (Omniscient), and assess (Omnipresent).
Not Veeky Forums fuck off
Theology isn't even humanities
>Monotheism
Man is made in the image of G-d
>Chr*stianity
G-d is made from the image of man.
>I can't read the sticky
Christian educashun
Spamming this shit thread is not allowed unfortunately, religious studies are allowed as they are humanities but NOT theology which is NOT humanities
>Wahhh stop talking about what I don't liekk
No
Ok then, doesn't stop this thread from getting removed though as it is off topic, you can like what you want but you can't post this shit here
It hasn't been removed and it won't be.
yes it will, most people just don't report it because they don't know it's against the rules, like racism but when reported it goes away.
if the jannies are too busy eating hot pockets I'll just tell you to fuck off which does no harm as you can't bump your own threads
This thread is perfectly acceptable and won't be deleted.
Also check the front page.
It is polytheism, it's not an inherently unstable doctrine that will eventually self correct either though the denial of Jesus's (supposed) divinity or the adoption of atheism
Nope
t. Someone who has no fucking clue about trinity except what his imam told him
If the trinity can't be explained properly (and it can't) it'll doubtlessly fall in front of true montheism, where you worship Gd alone, instead of Gd + man. Islam is idolatrous.
its just a metaphor bro lmao
Imagine a water molecule in three states, it is still water all the same, yet know it is still water when it is in its solid[ice], liquid [fluid water], and gaseous [water vapor] state.
The Creator is beyond those three separate states, singularily, The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and being the former of Creation exists as something beyond our dimensional grasp of something such as a state of being, using the material sense of water as a comparison.
God as a Trinity is a bastardization of the idea that God is beyond our material concepts, suggesting that he is not and cannot exist as all Three as One.
So Jesus turns into the Holy Spirit when you boil him?
What if you fry him?
>Have one pizza
>divide it into three pieces
>''now there's three pizzas!''
>no user, those are just three pieces of that one piz-
>''HURRR THREEE PIZZAS!!!''
So you are saying that Jesus is not God, just like a piece of pizza is not pizza?
try asking theologists or people who actually know this shit. even among christians (catholics and protestants) there's an argument whether praying to saints is idolatry or not
divine quads
That's not a suitable analogy for the Trinity. The Holy Spirit, Jesus and the Father are all fully and completely God not parts of God.
>Please explain how the Trinity is not polytheism.
>Be me, as opposed to god
>Be a kind friend
>Be a loyal family member
>Be a laborious student
>I am three people
Father, son, daughter
the father is family
the son is family
the daughter is family
without eachother they are not family
That's not how the Trinity works. The son is not the whole family, he is just a part of the family, the daughter is not the entire family she is just a part of it, the father is not the complete family he is just a part of it.
I'm assuming you are Christian, yet you don't even understand your own religion.
I guarantee there's some kind of heresy called "aspectisianism or modaolism" that disputes that understanding. That's how retarded the whole thing has become.
I'm not christian, I was also just playing with semantics, they're all 'family', which has a different meaning than 'the family' btw
Yes, I understood your word game fine. It doesn't make any difference to what I said in my post.
In the Trinity Jesus is God, the whole of God, the Holy Spirit is God, the entire of God, the Father is God, all of God. They aren't parts of God.
Answer me this, Muhammad al-4channi, do Muslims see God as an actual physical being who resides out of sight?
I shouldn't think so.
How does an omnipotent creator's killing and resurrection of something he has total power over inspire awe? How was it necessary?
Him "conquering" death is irrelevant if he's omnipotent.
3 is 1 and 1 manifest in 3. Jesus is the manifestation of God on flesh, God is our immaterial creator and the Holy Spirit is how God acts on our soul.
The cross, the saints are just symbols with a history and a metastory behind it that is the important thing.
It's illogical so that is why they call it a mistery.
Nice bait
This is true, theology is a science.
It's funny how every time I've thought about religion I end up basically agreeing with Calvinism and thinking it can't possibly be right at the same time
Well then go to Veeky Forums they'd appreciate more science
So would it be correct to say that the trinity is essentially different manifestations of the same entity?
No, that's modalism and is a heresy.
There is no explanation of the Trinity other than "hurr its a mystery!"
Fucking hell the trinity is retarded.
Even when one tries to explain it everything is heresy.
>explain what Trinity is or what it means
>''but that's not what Trinity is!''
Is this a lame bait thread where every answer is replied with a rebuttal automatically?
Think about cheese, user.
Cheese is yellow and tasty and made of milk at the same time.
Muslims BTFO
B
T
F
O
Yes.
1 Corinthians 12:7
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all...
Colossians 1
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
1 Timothy 2
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying—a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
You are literally the worst heretic hunter I have ever seen.
>Everything I cannot grasp is retarded. It simply cannot be beyond my comprehension. It must be retarded.
If you mean this is is a thread where a nonsensical part of Christianity is called out, as admitted by two thousand years of Christian philosophers and where every attempt at an answer that doesn't admit it is nonsensical gets laughed at and trashed then yes, you are right, user.
>These three independently conscious beings are actually one
>Lmao muzlims btfo!!!! trinity confirmed for not polytheism xDDDD God and Jesus are the same person! Oh wait, weren't they father and son? Who the fuck is the spirit? sheeeeeit
Because God is three parts at once, like the proton neutron and electron all make up deuterium yet are different at the same time
Mortal minds were not designed to hoold the ocean
Explain to me how Islam makes any sense at all
>beings
God is not of creation, but is outside creation, eternal, timeless, yet everywhere filling all things.
>Because God is three parts at once
That's not how the Trinity works, heretic.
Burn him!
>Please explain how the Trinity is not polytheism
Because God is One, eternal, indivisable, yet tri-personal. What's not to get, Muslim? God is forever beyond our comprehension, yet we know Him through His love and goodness. He does not desire submission, which love does not desire; therefore, Islam is false.
I'd be happy to explain it OP. Just wait a second.
First, I need to rebut each of the previous heretical explanations, and then rebut anyone who calls me the heretic...
1. Existence.
en.oxforddictionaries.com
Interesting argument for the Trinity, that God does not exist, certainly a new one.
Actually I believe it's only the modalist heresy if you imagine God as a distinct quantity of water that can only take one form at a time, in sequence. On the other hand if you imagine the sum total of water as an abstract concept, that encompasses all forms simultaneously then I don't believe the analogy aligns with that particular heresy.
So instead of imagining a ice cube that melts and them becomes steam, imagine an iceberg shrouded by mist adrift on the sea. At least that's my understanding, maybe I'm wrong.
All the explanations are heretical, only the non-explanations are non-heretical.
You're not wrong.
youtu.be
Water isn't an abstract concept. The entire analogy loses its "point" if you "imagine" that.
That doesn't work. Trinitarians always say that each part of the Trinity is wholly God. But clearly the iceberg is not all the water. Nor is the mist or the sea.
>conflating creation with existing
Your argument says there is no God since one must be within creation to exist.
What's so wrong with the Trinity being a mystery? Doesn't it make a certain sense that God would be beyond our comprehension? The Trinity is derived from Scripture, from the various faculties God is shown to possess in both the Old and the New Testament.
Why is Islam so autistic? This isn't the first time I've seen a Muslimboo talk about how "logical" their religion is.
Friendly reminder that real Christians only believe in Jesus as the messiah and a prophet of god.
If you believe in him as the son of god and worship him as god himself, and if you believe in the trinity, you are a pagan heretic who will go to hell.
t. muhammad
In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lofty; and the hem of his robe filled the temple. Seraphs were in attendance above him; each had six wings: with two they covered their faces, and with two they covered their feet, and with two they flew. And one called to another and said:
“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts;
the whole earth is full of his glory.”