Define and defend equality

Equality before the law is equity. You use the law as the catalyst for what's considered "fair"

The law is far from "everything"

Equality is a meme, mutualism is where it's at.

Sure. Doesn't take away from the idea that equality isn't possible.

Sounds like I'll have to work on my brain and soul to compete with your brawn.

Equality is better for everyone and more fulfilling. Hierarchy and ruthless competition is for animals.

>We are all equal.
>In the beginning, all are given a brain, a body, and a soul.
No, we really aren't all born equal. I was born with muscular dystrophy. My body started weaker than most others. Some people are born weaker/dumber than average, others are born smarter/stronger than average.

Anybody who thinks that all our differences are environmental is an idiot.

We may have all of these things but it begs the question to suggest that they are all equal.

For example if everyone in my street owns a bookshelf, it is virtually certain that they all have different books. Yes everyone in my street is 'equal' in that they have the item 'a bookshelf' but it is plainly false to suggest all of these bookshelves are the same thing.

>No, we really aren't all born equal. I was born with muscular dystrophy. My body started weaker than most others.
So, you still have your brain.

Yes, everyone has a bookshelf to place their books. And yes, all the shelves will be different. How many books will be different, some may have 1, some may have many, some may be full. The quality of the books on the shelf may be different. But they all have a bookshelf. What they do with that bookshelf is of their own creation.

Well there are many kinds of equality but as a general principle you can state. >The most even distribution of x is fair because any reason to distribute x is an unequal manner leads to more suffering than taking x away from those who have more.

Fuck
>The most even distribution of x is fair because any reason to distribute x is an unequal manner leads to more suffering than taking x away from those who have more.

>So, you still have your brain.
Some people have both. Some have neither. And these differences are from birth.

Sure, your environment matters, but it is absolutely not the only factor. No matter how hard I train, I'm not going to outrun Usain Bolt. No matter how hard I study, I'm not going to be as smart as Einstein.

Why should anyone strive for anything if you're just going to take it away?

Equality is unbiased competition.

>defend equality
No. Equality is a false god.

Well equality isn't just physical things life wealth, but it can be concepts like rights and law. So in many ways you can say it was an injustice to the Nobel men of the post enloghtment to take away their Nobel privileges. Why should any man work to better himself if one day he could not become a noble man or it would be taken away from him

>But
In other subjects equality can be quite damaging so I personally believe in selective equality where certain things are made equal and others not. The details what should and shouldn't be are different argument though.

Stronger or not, the body is still the body, the soul is still the soul and the brain is still a brain. It isn't like you are immortal or something to be on whole different level from everyone else.

Also the statement does if taking x away causes less harm and suffering than the unequal distribution.

>Some people have both. Some have neither. And these differences are from birth.
Then those who have neither have purity of soul. Uncorrupt.

>No matter how hard I train, I'm not going to outrun Usain Bolt. No matter how hard I study, I'm not going to be as smart as Einstein.
In no way does that mean they're better than you or you can't be better than them in other areas. Usain Bolt will never be as smart as Einstein, and Einstein could never run a 100m as fast as Usain Bolt. Would you declare either of them are better than the other?

ah alright, fair enough.

Why should any man work to better himself if he was born Nobel with all priveledges needed?

Why are you making value judgments at all? I'm not.

There's always room to improve. Even the wealthiest and most powerful people have wants that must be worked for.

I'm not the one making a value judgement. You are. By saying you have been given an unfair lot in life and that all is not equal because you have not been given equal greatness.

I am saying all is equal because everyone has the potential to prove their greatness equally.

This is in line with my argument that certain things should be equal. If being noble means you do nothing than you are essentially just a drain on the rest of society without putting anything back in.

People absolutely do not all have equal "potential to prove their greatness", whatever that even means. Will the greeter at your local Wal-Mart have their name live on in textbooks? No? Einstein will. That greeter never had a chance either, odds are he's disabled in some way; usually mentally. Wal-Mart gets a big tax write-off for hiring the mentally disabled.

Regardless, I'm not saying that things are unequal in the sense of good vs bad, I'm saying they're unequal in the sense that 1 != 2

Well what I think the argument is that the greeter should have the same opportunity as Einstein, but due differences in ability that greater will never take advantage of that opportunity.

>Will the greeter at your local Wal-Mart have their name live on in textbooks?

How do you know? How do you know what the greeter at Wal-Mart may be working on in his spare time? Or are you better than the greeter at Wal-Mart? Have you been given an unfair advantage over the Wal-Mart greeter? What if the Wal-Mart greeter is happy? Who's to say he's not happy? You? Me? Einstein?

I'm not saying things are equal in the sense of good vs bad, and I'm not saying they're equal in the sense that 1!=2, I'm saying they're equal in the sense that 1 and 2 are both numbers.

>Usain Bolt will never be as smart as Einstein, and Einstein could never run a 100m as fast as Usain Bolt. Would you declare either of them are better than the other?

Say you're Einstein and want to be a sprinter, you don't have equality with Usain Bolt. Nor does Usain with Einstein if he wants to be a physicist. True equality doesn't exist.

He can, and does legally have that opportunity, but realistically he does not. The law isn't the only thing that keeps people up or down.

If he's happy good for him. But that doesn't mean he's as fast as Usain Bolt or as smart as Einstein. I'm not saying that I am better or worse than anyone, I'm saying I'm not identical to anyone, which is what true equality would require.

>Say you're Einstein and want to be a sprinter, you don't have equality with Usain Bolt.
Of course, and if Einstein had attempted to become a sprinter, sooner or later, Einstein would have had to face that fact. Now, Einstein could choose to let that fact destroy him, or he could be honest with himself, humble, and accept that this particular condition was not right for him and work on his other areas to find what are the best conditions suited for him. To find his place. Where he fits best. The place he can prove his greatness.
>Nor does Usain with Einstein if he wants to be a physicist.
The same holds true for Usain what I said above about Einstein.
>True equality doesn't exist.
This is true equality. You may not like it, because you haven't found where you fit best, yet, but it's true equality. And I have faith in you, bud. You just gotta keep lookin'.

>If he's happy good for him. But that doesn't mean he's as fast as Usain Bolt or as smart as Einstein.
So what? If you asked Usain or had the ability to ask Einstein if they would give it all up for true happiness, you know what they're answer would be? I don't. You neither. So don't be so arrogant, Mr. Value Judgement.
>I'm saying I'm not identical to anyone, which is what true equality would require.
Of course you are. And of course you're not. You have a brain, a body, and a soul. What you do with them makes you, you. In the same way, if I were to give 100 schoolchildren a pencil and paper and told them to draw me a picture or write me a story. They are all given the same pencil and the same paper. They'd return to me 100 different stories. That doesn't mean they all weren't given the same tools.

So do you believe in predestiny and that everyone has their chance at ... something. Something being greatness? Greatness as in "being the best" at something? because you and I both know there's only so many people who can be the best at any given thing. Being happy? Because plenty of people are born biologically less happy than others, as well. Surely you've met people who have it all and are miserable, and people who should be miserable who are happy. Plenty of this is genetic. The miserable man's parents, at least one of them, was likely the same way.

Is it fair to be the child who dies when he's 5 from some sort of virulent ass cancer? Did he be the cancer-kid to his very best, and that's all that matters? Is he the equal of the guy born healthily to a rich family who lived to 90 years old wanting for nothing? Is the important thing that ass-cancer kid died happy while the 90 year old died angry?

> Will the worker at your local patent office have their name live on in textbooks?

>So do you believe in predestiny and that everyone has their chance at ... something. Something being greatness? Greatness as in "being the best" at something? because you and I both know there's only so many people who can be the best at any given thing.
Of course I do. You can be the greatest YOU. There's no one else like it. You are absolute best at it. My father was the best father I ever had. And my mother the best I ever had. I had a friend who hated his father and, to him, that was the worst father in the history of the world.
>Being happy? Because plenty of people are born biologically less happy than others, as well. Surely you've met people who have it all and are miserable, and people who should be miserable who are happy. Plenty of this is genetic. The miserable man's parents, at least one of them, was likely the same way.
That's nothing impossible to overcome. There's is nothing impossible to overcome. Sure, some takes more time, patience, and humility than others, but none of that is impossible to overcome. Even genetic predispositions.
>Is it fair to be the child who dies when he's 5 from some sort of virulent ass cancer? Did he be the cancer-kid to his very best, and that's all that matters?
I was the cancer kid, user.
>Is he the equal of the guy born healthily to a rich family who lived to 90 years old wanting for nothing?
Yes, he is.
>Is the important thing that ass-cancer kid died happy while the 90 year old died angry?
I don't know, but it sure sounds like it's more important to you that he died happy than angry. And same with me.