If Stalin killed tens of millions of people, why didn't this make a noticeable dent in the population?
Why have most historians, including the famously right-wing Robert Conquest, admitted that Cold War estimates of 30 or 40 million victims were fraudulent?
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If Americans genocided millions of indians, why didn't this make a noticeable dent in the population?
If Mao genocided millions of Chinese, why didn't this make a noticeable dent in the population?
If Hitler genocided millions of Jews, why didn't this make a noticeable dent in the population?
Because demography and population growth is more than just mortality.
Because ever since Soviet archives became available to the rest of the world in the 90s and early 2000s, estimates of the death toll attributable to Stalin's regime have fallen to the 5-10 million range.
Those all made sizeable dents in the population though.
>implying that there weren't any noticeable dents
The only one I can find stats on is the Chinese famine. A horrifying number of people starved to death during the Great Leap Forward but because China has over a billion people, it seems kind of small.
>Why have most historians, including the famously right-wing Robert Conquest, admitted that Cold War estimates of 30 or 40 million victims were fraudulent?
but I thought Robert Conquest was where the 100 million figure communists love to debunk came from?
holodomor was real though but it was pay back for the black army not some made up race
Didn't nearly all the native americans get exterminated though? That's sizeable.
most native Americans died of disease or societal collapse before Europeans even discovered them
But the population size remained 'stable' because of the influx of (forced) migration - thus giving the false appearance that these events were insignificant.
That's correct.
After 1991 he re-released his book "the Great Terror" with all of the shocking statistics removed or greatly diminished.
/pol/ types still talk about Stalin killing 60 million people, but this is supported by no evidence whatsoever.
I've never seen anyone claim Stalin killed more than 40 million people except communists debunking obviously insane numbers to imply that Stalin didn't kill anyone
Holodomor was very real, but it had nothing to do with the Black Army, which had been crushed over a decade before.
While there is reason to believe that Stalin and Molotov harbored negative feelings toward the Ukrainian peasantry, there's not any convincing evidence to suggest that the famine was deliberate.
Outside of Ukraine, there is now consensus that the famine was man-made but still accidental. Factors such as grain acquisition and collectivization destroyed traditional means of distribution in times of crisis, paired with Stalin's unyielding demands to bring grain out of the countryside, caused many people to die.
I think 10-15 million killed/starved in Stalin's time is a reasonable number.
>why didn't this make a noticeable dent in the population
en.wikipedia.org
>Official statistics based on the registered birth and death rates implied that the 1937 census should show a population of 170-172 million.[2][1]
>When the data was first processed, it soon became obvious that the final enumeration would be little more than 162 million people. The worst disagreement between the expected and the obtained data were in Kazakhstan, Ukraine, North Caucasus and the Volga region, the areas that were the strongest hit by the Soviet famine of 1932-1934.[1] Also, despite the expected number of living prisoners of the Gulag to be 4 million, only 2.6 million were accounted for.[2][1]
That's 8-10 million less people than there should be.
Because the "40 million", "50 million," or "60 million" stats were all made from population projections.
Western historians had no concrete idea of how many people died under Stalin until after '91, so people would do basic math with Soviet birthrates stats to calculate how many people "there are supposed to be", and compare this to the actual contemporary Soviet population. This ignored that factors like education, increased rights for women, and most importantly urbanization brought Russian birth-rates closer to that of the West.
At the time, more cynical historians could also do pretty well for aiding our Cold War effort with outlandish but then-unfalsifiable stats.
Stalin and Mao didn't deliberatly kill all those people, they were just really fucking incompetent and fell prey to bad harvests. If we're going to call them genociders then we should put Winston Churchill up there with them for the Bengal Famine (an Indian politician recently compared him to Hitler IIRC).
...
>Stalin didn't kill a made up number of people that no one has seriously believed since the height of the Cold War, so he dindu nuffin
It's all or nothing.
that's really not how it works
like, at all
I do not negotiate with non communists.
>people cant double their numbers in 30 years or so
kek.
Japan still had population growth when they were being nuked
Does this mean USA didn't actually nuke and firebomb Japan?
Leftycucks BTOF
>black army
Black Army was a literal meme and most of Ukrainians didn't give a flying fuck about them. Much like with Durruti or those goatfuckers in Chiapas only delusional anartard hipsters care about them.
you must go back reddit
>Population increase of less than 20 million over the course of nearly 30 years
>Only counting Russia
Why is there no dent in the population from WW2?
WW2 didn't happen confirmed
>Population of Russia
>Doesn't include population of Ukraine
Nice maneuvering tankie
the only "dents" are wwi and wwii.
Nah that's the Black book who themselves admitted to inflating because they wanted that 100 million killed meme
>80 million
lower end estimates are around 10 million
10^(log(107634/91000)/29)=1.005806
population increased by 5.8/1000 per year
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
>During the 1918-1940 period, the birth rate in the USSR never fell below 30/1000 and never exceeded 45/1000.
>After the late 1940s, the overall birth rate in the USSR stabilized at a level of 25-27/1000, but from 1960 onwards
10^(log(1.03^22*1.025^7)/29)=28.8/1000 annualized birth rate
28.8-5.8 = a death rate of 23/1000
There is currently no country on earth with such a high death rate, if they had Kenya's death rate of 7 the population would have been 91*10^6*1.0218^29=170.08 million by 1953.
Even with 30 million war dead there is plenty of space for 10s of millions of people to go missing and the statistics you have provided do not contradict the evidence of gulags and intentionally orchestrated famines.
I find it funny that USA which the bestest of capitalist supported Pol Pot in secretly while the evil poor commie Vietnam wanted to rekt Pol Pot so hard they invaded the country.
Cold War era propaganda (which persists to this day) suggests negligent death under socialist regimes is some specific evil while negligent death under capitalist regimes is unavoidable.
Stalin was such a powerful magician that he could conjure up tens of millions of people to execute or send to gulags.
>If Americans genocided millions of indians, why didn't this make a noticeable dent in the population?
It really did though. Lots of tribes went extinct, languages went extinct.
>If Hitler genocided millions of Jews, why didn't this make a noticeable dent in the population?
It did though. Jewish dialects went extinct. Some Jewish communities had 90% or more of them die. Those are fucking terrible odds
>Soviet revisionism is legitimate
>Holocaust revisionism is verboten
Just Veeky Forums things
>If Americans genocided millions of indians, why didn't this make a noticeable dent in the population?
Most dead before folks were counting (which does make the numbers quite debatable.)
>If Mao genocided millions of Chinese, why didn't this make a noticeable dent in the population?
It did. (Though it wasn't much of one, given the scale.)
>If Hitler genocided millions of Jews, why didn't this make a noticeable dent in the population?
It did, though there is a often incorrectly quoted population count that was using numbers before the war.
Still, Stalin was a dick and killed a whole lotta folks, surely... Just not 80 million - unless you're counting potential births over several generations as deaths.
>people are starving
>steal their food
>they die
Whoops we didn't mean it to happen!
>Discussing history by asking a question is now bad
>An authoritarian government would never lie.