Is it even possible to make a living as a programmer without being a wagecuck...

That's crazy, how is software so depressing? And how do you only have 30k after 7 years? Are you working for beurocratic shitholes in the Midwest? Go work for a startup in a tech hub, you'll get 30k on day one as a friggen signing bonus.

>7 years in software dev
>Only $30k in savings

That sounds to low unless you've been spending your money on useless shit.

Most of my jobs have been at startups. I've even worked in san francisco (which is its own special hell that I would never recommend). I don't even care about having a lot of money anymore, just want to be able to do something for a living that doesn't make me think about suicide on a daily basis. I would be perfectly happy making something like 20-30k a year if I didn't have to work for somebody else.

I'm in sf looking for a tech job. What's wrong with that?

So you've only saved 30k working in software for 7 years at startups in places including San Fran? We'll, I can't even begin to understand/believe that. A senior dev should make that in a month in SF. Of course making senior would generally require working at a place for more than 9 months at a time.

Depression is a shitty thing though, hope you get it sorted out. Also stop lying on the internet.

Nothing except for the high rent and difficulty finding parking space.

>making games on steam for peasant wages

>spending months making shitty games no one will ever play

Lol. anyone who isn't autistic would be pumping out shitty infinite runner apps on a weekly basis.

My salary in sf was $100k but it's also the fastest job I ever quit, after only 3 months because it was that fucking bad. Between jobs I've always spent a few months just living off my savings trying to recover from the stress and depression of wagecucking, so that's probably why I don't have much. It's definitely saved my life up to this point though, because if I had to constantly keep doing this without any breaks I surely would have killed myself years ago. Those months I spend off between jobs are the only times I'm happy in life anymore.

deal with it you fucking pussy. either develop a product people want to buy on your own or accept the fact that you are a degenerate failure who will spend their life barely scraping by at 30k/year

$30k isn't "barely scarping by" to me though. I would be perfectly happy making that much from something that isn't wagecucking, but my question is, is it even possible?

What generates the feeling of dissapointment with life is the discoverey that you have to tell yourself lies and built phantasmagorical structers to explain your decisions and make them valid in surrounding sick, sick belief space.
Truly not one virtue matters, bad or good the are nothing more than hinderance.

Your mind can interface with magnetic force and make you a living god.
But no, Johnny has to to go to collage and built a career. (stupid mortals)
Maybe watch Dark city. Try to remember what life is and who you are. The projector will end it's job sooner or later but when it ends what will you do?
You can crash reality pretty easily.

(I do have IT major)

I was thinking of becoming and eth dev. I'm a college drop out what are my chances.

I've only been in software for a year making 70k and I've already saved up 10k, what the fuck did you blow all your money on? Memecoins?

Nice schizophrenia

>There are no different jobs though. It's always the same shit no matter where you work.
Why not start your own thing? Having been in so many companies, you gotta have a sense of what kind of product a company can live off. I bet they weren't all that innovative.

Lay off the drugs, this isn't the 420th channel.

Make a game which is basically a stock market back testing simulation. I'd pay a lot for this

nothing wrong with it, if they let you live in the office and you don't have a family or plan on having one soon

> 7 years working in software development and my total life savings are about $30k
you probably wouldn't be so depressed and cynical if you had not spent 7 years wasting thousands of dollars on leisure/drinking etc.
overall sounds like you don't enjoy software development, and that's fine. you can still turn your experience in some data pushing or admin work and have a different workflow at a new place.

NO U

But software engineering is one of the happiest jobs you can get. They're are actual statistics on it. Also it's not hard at all. What's the issue?

fellow wagecuck programmer reporting in.

i'm trying to generate revenue outside of the director sale of my labor.

>Also it's not hard at all
thats a pretty bold thing to say, im sure theres easy programming jobs but theres also much more difficult low level stuff

Yes. If your going for the make-a-game-and-get-noticed approach, you'll probably find your going to have to spend an insane amount of time marketing your game otherwise its not going to sell well, if at all.

On top of that you've got to sort out everything else about the game: the code, the art, the music, concept shit, production, etc. Unless your a super genius or going for something really simple (which won't get noticed), chances are your going to have to hire people to do shit, which means you've got to manage people on top of all that. For a small indie production at a bare minimum thats going to be at least 2 people, probably 3 if you factor in all the legal shit you've got to wade through to actually get your stuff on app stores. For a hit game your looking at well over 100+ people, but thats on a whole other league and level of capital.

At the end of development of your typical game, which will take anywhere from 6 months to 4 years and beyond, unless you avoided working insane hours and having to deal with shitty programmers, bad artists, ineffectual project managers, and CRUNCHING, you'll probably be so burned out you hate games and your dreams will be shattered.

I know many great game devs who got burned out and had to quit the industry for a few years, and in some cases forever. Which is a shame since at their peak they were pretty good devs which came up with a lot of promising shit.

It's fine to dream about making it big developing games, but don't let that blind you to the reality of it largely being a soul-crushing subset of software development.

>tfw reading this while I have my shitty udemy game making course on my other monitor

feelsbad

No one is stupid enough to make that from his own money without a producer taking the risks.

why so many fucking emo kids lately? Even in reddit every 3rd post is about someone who wants to kill himself. Just fucking do it.
Wait, maybe you just want some fucking attention because you're desperate. But we don't fucking care.

Holy shit can relate so much. Especially the part about taking months off between jobs cause they burn me out so fucking much. I'm now in my mid 30s no wife little savings and no idea what I'm supposed to do to stop living this hell.

This reminds me of the Documentary behind the game "Fez".

It also covered 1 or 2 other games. All the developers got completely destroyed by the process of it.

They were also pretty much NEETs enabled by their fat wives.

>7 years working in software development
>my total life savings are about $30k

>Why not start your own thing? Having been in so many companies, you gotta have a sense of what kind of product a company can live off. I bet they weren't all that innovative.

Of course not but that's the point. They basically have an army of cheap go-getter business people pushing their product. But even for that you're looking at millions from angels in your first couple years which puts you in an even more special kind of hell unless you have partners you can share it with. (Hint: I don't)

How do you get started though.

This was always my plan, but I had to abandon it. I have to pay rent and bills and food etc. therefore I had to get a full time job as a programmer. That now takes up all my energy. The last fucking thing I want to do when I get home from work is do more programming.

The only way I could make my own game is if I quit my job for 2+ years and worked on it, but 2 years of expenses is a huge investment, and it's risky. My game flops and I end up a poorfag with a gap in my employment history.

Jesus man you can do whatever you want. Any other people who want to set their own company selling a product need expensive equipment you just need fucking pc. To learn how to be good software engineer you need to be a wage cuck for a few years. See how dev look irl. Wat do you fucking think. I'm studying cs rite now and working a bit for almost no money. Also just got proposition to work in a team developing system for controlling new type of particle accelerator. That's another way to go. Work as a scientist.

>I'm studying cs rite now and working a bit for almost no money.
>But listen to me about being a vet in the workforce

Write Runescape goldfarming bots
Easy profit

>Also it's not hard at all. What's the issue?
Exactly it being not hard at all is a potential issue. Having to do cognitively semi-demanding stuff with possibly no real use (depends on the product), sitting around in office all day -- recipe for depression.

Just do drugs at your office so you can look forward to work, thats what i do

Why? That sounds pretty easy to implement.
You just need the data which us widely available and a few calculations that literally take 2 minutes in excel which you translate into a programming language. Then you add some charts and you're done.

What am I missing here?

that's not a lot of money for a skilled programmer. 2.5k is entry level at least for a bachelor without job experience.
I guess it count's to be self employed.

This already exists on investopedia.

Guys are you me? Slightly different situation, but with crossover to programming/equally or more grindy (VFX industry).

I've been off for 6 weeks now and left the country to think about what I'm doing with my life. 1 1/2 years ago I had a nervous breakdown when many different 'shit hit the fan' scenarios converged onto a 2 week period.

It changed my perspective on everything and a realization that over the years - the industry and interest that was once my passion was now... just constant stress and destroying my life.

3 years ago my weekly hours *averaged* over the year was 97.5. Trying to fix a script at 8am, coming up on a 24 hour day... it's just not healthy. In VFX we regularly have those types of overtime conditions when a project needs to go out every 2-4 weeks...

Crypto became my only ticket out. A little dramatic but I really can't conceive of going back, the stress and detriment to quality of life is too high a cost, I'd almost rather take a 140k paycut and drive for fucking uber.

When my coworker asked if I wanted to get on his next job - I sent this in response...

youtube.com/watch?v=tXhO1hpNMdE

> Crypto became my only ticket out

Is crypto really a way out of being a wagecuck?

I want to believe.

Will there come a day when I make more trading memecoins than from my day job, or will there come a day when I live off huge BTC reserves that are worth millions?

>tests that have been green for months suddenly go red
>"the tests are broken, fix the test code to make it green again"

I don't understand this. I love programming. I could spend the rest of my life doing this shit. Data structures in particular get my autism flowing.

>Work as a scientist
Teach me how to do this with a cs degree.

Overwork yourself in enough bad programming jobs and eventually you'll be so burned out and fed up with it you'll never want to program data structure shit again.

If you have a healthy work/life balance though, the risk of burning out is less. Working insane hours with bad posture can take a huge toll on your psyche and health.

Yeah I spend 10 hours a day sitting with bad posture mixed with periodically forcing myself to sit up straight.

I like to stand up and do stretches every hour though. I also go running for half an hour after work every day. It helps

>there are actual """"""""""""people'"""""""""""""""" ITT who go to the slave cubicle everyday and don't just daytrade chaincoin from their basement

SAD!

Yes but you have to be very good at it, have niche(s), and have recognition. I freelanced a couple times for $200+ an hour because very few people could do the job effectively and quickly. And that's under the table in cash or BTC. I always did payments in 1/3 intervals. 1/3 now, 1/3 at something presentable, 1/3 after delivery. I think the best job was making bots for CS:GO gambling sites because of how janky and garbage they all are. Generic programmers are a dime a dozen and pajeet can do that job for 10 cents an hour.

For background, I started programming when I was 12. I went to school for CS, got an associates in it and then switched to an IT management program in university. I have never used either degrees for anything and learned almost nothing though and it was probably the biggest waste of time in my life. My biggest fear is becoming a 9-5 wagie like OP debugging garbage code that other people wrote.

tell me more sensei

learn finance and mathematics and you can design quantitative systems. they work quite well, or they well quite well.