Unpopular opinion thread:

I agree with OP.

The way I see it is that at some point the Russian ruling class would ahve to attempted some form of a state-capitalist program to industrialise the country to maintain itself in contest with the rest of the world.

Whether it would have been as intense and bloody as the Five year Plans, who knows, but the process would have been similar.

Yes, the Russian nobility was backwards as fuck and ahted any sort of progress, be it political or economic. A good comparison is Japan. A section of the nobility saw that they had to industrialise to make sure they did end to America and Russia what China was to Britain and France. They had to modernise the country, and as part of it they got to overthrow the Shogunate and install themselves (the Choshu and Satsuma clans) as the new leaders. Industralisation was carried out through a form of state-capitalism. What I mean is that it was very different to the way market economies developed in Britain and France, through a rather more organic process.
In Japan, it was a highly undemocratic bureaucratic state that worked hand in hand with the zaibatsu, the four largest business conglomerates, to drag the country into the 19th century. That is not to say that it was all hunky-dory and everyone got on fine. Early modern Japanese governments were unstable as hell (not much has changed I guess).

Anotehr good example is South Korea. There the government basically coerced/strong-armed the capitalist class into helping the state industrialise the country, even against the short term interests of the business owners.

Russia would ahve been in the same boat. Say the Tsarist regime had managed to survive WWI. The experience would have shown how weak the country was against the industrial might of it's nearest (geographically speaking) rival: Germany.
It's also possible that Anglo-Russian tensions might have flared up again in the Great Game.

Cont.

Cont. Well not much to add, but as I went over the character limit:

In the end (whatever the specific circumstances) the ruling class would have realised that they had to modernise the economy to keep up with everyone else.

The Holocaust actually happened

shut the fuck up, stop being such an arrogant cunt without a proper understanding, Alec Nove has pointed out that this all rests on the assumption that the regime would have proceeded on an ordely path and adjusted to the strains of a changing society. "Industralisation .. was itself a threat to politcal stability and hence to the continuation of the policy of industralisation.

The growth was coming from a low base and and was still backward in many ways such as production per capita.

>recommending Anglo literature on Russian history
Nice one. The industrialization was a joke compared to Western Europe and all relevant branches were owned by foreigners. Of course it was "industrializing at a quick pace", because besides steel and petroleum the production was completely irrelevant to the world market and they had to catch up centuries.

You can't compare Russian nobility to the Asian ones. They didn't saw themselves as backwards. They saw how a new class was taking power in Western Europe. From their point of view industrialization isn't "we need to make our country stronger", it was "in one generation, my class and family will be irrelevant". And the Tsar was the same. If they would have cared about the nation at large, they would have reformed far earlier. Especially since he knew that his country wasn't able to administer a big state-capitalistic push and would rely on foreign capital.

>Say the Tsarist regime had managed to survive WWI. The experience would have shown how weak the country was against the industrial might of it's nearest (geographically speaking) rival
They would have seen that their current system is good enough to win a war against this industrial might and wouldn't change it.

TFW someone uses a cold warrior before the archives were opened

It's not about the country at large, but about their own survival.

Yeah, it's entirely possible that they might have failed miserably, not seen the coming and storm, and succumbed to foreign domination, ala China.

But even there you had the revolution of 1911, and the later regimes, whether Nationalist or Communist, finally tried to push things forward.

Izzy spelling the jews made Spain the firs global superpower and discovering America and the Habsburgs were some kind of curse

HOW FUCKING DUMB ARE YOU
Russia was industrialising and 1910-14 were good years for Russia, it industrialised but slowly which is one reason why Germany attacked and turned the 4th Balkan war into WW1

...

Have you actually studied russia, once Stolypin got everyone calmed down things were on the ups and ups until Wilhelm had his second last autistic fit

anyone got the one with wilhelm saying to the reaper 'stop stop no more', and the reaper says 'you stop at my command'

VERY unlikely. Holodomor was a result of combining idiotic central planning with forced collectivization. You can accuse the tsar of doing a ton of dumb shit but forced collectivization wasn't one of them, in fact they tried REALLY HARD to build an independent, moderately wealthy farmer class from the grounds up, much like in America, to try to come close to American agricultural output. That's what the kulaks were.

Pic.

That's a ton of asspulls in a single post. The tsars wanted to modernize the country a lot, why the fuck do you think the Romanovs abolished serfdom to begin with?

After the Russo-Japanese War they had to acknowledge that their Empire was in dire need of modernisation.
The rapid development of the Russian Empire in the following years was one of the principal reasons of von Moltke to press a preventative war with Russia.

Good thing stolypin got assassinated.

They didn't really lose that war because of lack of modernization, they lost it because it's kind of hard to project your naval power on the spot when your fleet is literally halway across the planet from the war.

All the good people in Russian history got either assassinated by some leftist subhumans, or died prematurely of other causes.

Witte also borrowed a fuckton of money (servicing the debt was a big burden) he did a pretty good job though.

>good people in Russian
Russians are like hienas.They can't be good.They can only scavangers.No compasion or remorse

because otherwise they faced widespread rebellion?

It only happened to silence people after the Crimean War and did not include the richest region.

Go slobber on more bleeding baby dicks rabbi.

Yet more asspulls. You're literally just brainstorming ideas instead of actually presenting facts.

Do the words "Postsevastopolian Thaw" mean anything to you? It's common knowledge, not an asspull.
BTW, it's funny you are using Stolypin to help your case, when it's also known he had tons of enemies in the court and his assasination trial was quickly swept under the rug.

I don't believe it should be, like William Luther Pierce said, if blacks never went to America they wouldn't be a problem. They would be merely violent predatory wildlife like tigers and lions and wouldn't pose any threat to whites.

Russia was literally in the middle of industrialization.
A BIG part of the reason Germany pushed into WWI was to fight Russia now while they were still stoppable.

>serfdom was abolished to stop rebellions
With a loyal cossack and the Ohkrana they had nothing to fear.
Serfdom was abolished to reform the army so it could beat England and France in a future war and not just be a dead weight to the other emperor's
If he didn't die the Tsar would ave removed him from office, but things would still go well, and he could always be called back like witte

He should've done it again

This 100%, the threat of a "waking Russian bear" has been a theme in German military since 1890s at least and they wanted to find the right window to skullfuck them when they're not fully industrialized yet.

It can in fact be argued that Lenin and Trotsky actually set Russia back and derailed industrialization significantly, this happens when you forcely collectivize the peasantry and exile/kill a huge chunk of your aristocrats, intelligentsia and scientists. it wasn't until Stalin in the early 30s when they picked up the pre-WW1 pace again.

but Okhrana was only established 20 years later

secret police had been around since peter the great

>Russia hadn't had a secret polcie force riding in black everywhere since the first romanov or ivan the terrible

You mean since Ivan IV, oprichnina.

Russia is big and has every last mineral resource it ever needs. Mass industrialization was an inevitability whether it be Stalin or Trotsky or the Tsar or my left fucking nutsack in charge.

>It can in fact be argued that Lenin and Trotsky actually set Russia back and derailed industrialization significantly, this happens when you forcely collectivize the peasantry and exile/kill a huge chunk of your aristocrats, intelligentsia and scientists. it wasn't until Stalin in the early 30s when they picked up the pre-WW1 pace again.
The first sentence is way off. The mass collectivization campaigns did not happen until the late 1920's (somewhere around 1928 way after Lenin was dead), around the same time of the first Five Year Plan. Lenin didn't derail industrialization, WW1 + the Russian Civil War almost completely ruining Russia's infrastructure leading them to create the NEP to foster the economy of Russia after the war.

>WW1 + the Russian Civil War almost completely ruining Russia's infrastructure
But there was no infrastructure to begin with

Yeah except Transsiberian railway which was the biggest engineering project in the history of the planet up until that point, fucktard.

NEP was a backpedaling meme after Lenin realized what colossal failure the kolkhozes and war communism was. And it was never really implemented.

>what colossal failure the kolkhozes and war communism was
War communism largely did exactly what it was designed to do, supply the Red Army while suppressing things like strikes. It wasn't meant to build up the economy and they lacked the capacity for wide spread centralized control of industry at that time. Kolkhozes were largely a spontaneous phenomenon that did not become the dominant form of agricultural enterprise until state expropriation of private holdings embarked on in 1929.

>And it was never really implemented.
Incorrect. See Farm To Factory (mediafire.com/file/j8uy6mx9fxfrpio/Farm_To_Factory.pdf) Chapter 2 and 3.

Latin America wouldn't be 3rd world if the Spaniards wouldn't fuck them

The Holodomor was a good thing.

XD

don't cut yourself on that edge kiddo

Yes, look up the military colonies of alexander i after the napoleonic wars :^)

>another if not the same user judging a historians quality by their nationality or the language theu happen to speak
End yourself cuck

American imperialism is misguided but pretty benign.

mein neger

The soviets literally fostered huge investment in scientific research, whereas during the tsarist era coordinated scientific research was unsystematic. Of course there were glaring mistakes like lysenko but on the whole scientific research experienced a quantum peap forward. Realize that the generation of scientists who built made the ussr nuclear were pdocuts of the soviet system

Russia had already been in the midst of industrialization when the Revolution occurred.

Only an unpopular opinion on reddit and /leftypol/. Before ww1 Russia was already industrializing rapidly, the Tsar was open to the rest of the world, permitted the State Duma in 1906 and was exposed to "his majesty's government" style monarchy in the rest of Europe, it is not much of a leap to expect this to continue. Its progress is well known as a contributing factor to Germany's fears and the war.

If you wanted to find fault with the Romanovs it would not be that they were exceptionally exploitative compared to other dictatorships, if anything they would have benefited from trade with the west. It was that they took war too lightly, thinking they can easily challenge Japan and Austro-Hungary.

The State Duma was a plaything of the Tsar, nothing more.
I don't deny Russia was industrialising, but far too slowly. The 1930s saw industrialisation at a rate that has never been matched, and thankfully allowed the USSR to produce a colossal modern army that smashed fascism.

Gotcha senpai