Why the fuck did Hitler declare war on the USA?

Can you boys imagine what the world would look like if he had won?

Hubris is a helluva drug

His basic concept was that the US was already assisting Great Britain through lend lease, therefore the US was not truly neutral despite being official neutral. Declaring war would mean that he could at least attack American ships with U-boats to prevent shipments from reaching Great Britain. He also thought that fighting Japan would basically tie up the US for a long time. After all, Japan had the largest navy in the world at the time. It was reasonable to assume that they would be a tough opponent that would take a very long time to defeat. And for any country other than the USA, that would have been very true. Long story short, both Japan AND Germany underestimated the sheer production power of the 1940's USA.

Didn't Yamamoto said something in the lines of "We will have victory after victory in 6 months but then if the war continues we will lose"?
Clearly they were aware of the American industrial strength.

So's coke and amphetamine, for that matter.

Except they never had those 6 months of victories, so clearly they underestimated them.

'In the first six to twelve months of a war with the United States and Great Britain I will run wild and win victory upon victory. But then, if the war continues after that, I have no expectation of success.'
I do love a good realist.

>He wasn't obliged to do so since Japanese attacked first

This isn't actually true. Japanese and German diplomats had actually worked out a secret deal that if either nation was attacked, or attacked, the USA then both would declare war. The reasoning was that the only realistic chance of defeating the USA was if both countries worked together, with Japan tying up the US fleet in the Pacific while Hitler secured victory in Europe. Then once victory in Europe was secure, Germany would send its own fleet to the Pacific to help Japan defeat whatever remained of the US navy.

>Germany would send its own fleet
what fleet?

Why the fuck did Hitler ___________

Fill in the blank

Isn't that quite literally the same mistake they did in WW1.

Had Operation Barbossa been successful, Germany's biggest land-based threat would have been eliminated and they could have started focusing their military spending primarily on their navy, which was otherwise a secondary concern for them. With the resources of basically the entire continent at their disposal, they certainly could have made a decently sized fleet under those conditions.

it takes years to build that fleet, even if you have all the resources.
By that time USA would have already rekt Japan and have the fleet 5 times of what Germany could have built.

Well, it obviously didn't work, so I can't really argue with that.

>Germany doesn't have a fleet
>Germany can't recquisition fleets of other nations

It probably had something to do with the fact that there was an undeclared naval war between the two powers going on in the Atlantic for the previous several months, but you know, there's no real reason.

>Except they never had those 6 months of victories
They did. The first major victory against Japan by the United States occurred 6 months after Pearl Harbor to the day. Prior to that, Japan was, in fact, running wild against ABDC forces in the Pacific.

And which nations are those? Italy's fleet got rekt, same with the French.
I'm sure those 3 minesweeper boats from Rumania will be a huge help

The Eternal Hun never learns.

because hitler was a retard

It would have been beautiful

Did you expect Hitler to make good decision? The guy was a total baffoon.

God I hate these threads. A few decent points are made, some asshole says Hitler was retarded, and I am left with the feeling like I should answer OP's obvious troll.

America had done everything short of declaring war for years, in fact America had done (under FDR) multiple things worthy of being declared war on.

>Roosevelt had been funded by numerous Democrat Jews, Morgenthau being one. They had encouraged Roosevelt as early as 1937 to make speeches promoting war and sanctions against Germany
>Roosevelt modified the Neutrality Law in 1939 to begin the sale of arms to Germany's enemies
>starting in 1940 Roosevelt would begin to recognize only in-exile governments
>In 1940 Roosevelt would freeze French assests and assist in the smuggling of French gold from Casablanca
>Also in 1940 he sends US military personnel to fight and train under the RAF. Meanwhile Roosevelt signs a defense pact with Canada
>In September 1940 Roosevelt trades 50 American destroyers to the British for island holdings
>In November 1940 Roosevelt ordered the German ships Reugeu, Niederwald and Rhein to be intimidated by American ships until these steamers were forced to scuttle themselves so as not to be captured
>In April 1941, followed the opening up of the Red Sea to U.S. ships to carry supplies to the British armies in North Africa
>In April of 1941 expanded lend-lease to include Yugoslavia (by now millions of tons of materiel had been given to the British and Soviets)
>Also in April 1941 expanded the area of US patrols and gave 20 torpedo-boats to the British
>In June 1941 the US invaded Greenland, setting up long-range airstrips in an obvious preparation for war, during this time a US warship would attack a German sub with depth-charges
>In June 1941 German assests in America would be frozen, German consulates were forcibly closed and all German businesses were shut down
>in July 1941 the US would invade Iceland and begin to use it as a staging point for war

I could go on but why.
>

Germany broke every other treaty, they may as well have broke this one too.

That's bullshit. Japan has never lost against the soviets and the soviets actually wanted to help Japan fight the US in the Pacific.

Japan lost against the Soviets in Manchuria early in the war.

We know there were reasons to do so, but strategically speaking, it was still a terrible mistake. Same as urging a 2 front war.

>The US invaded Greenland and Iceland

Bullshit.

it was in fact the british who sought to prevent any chance of germany establishing a base on those shores

at some point we relieved them of their posting there during the war

of course his post has an article of truth, if not slanted, and retarded, like most posts by plebeians on the internet

he thought how best to fuck the shit up of the german people, declaring war on the USA only mere months after doing likewise to the soviet union seemed like only the most expedient means to achieving this end

I'm sorry, the British initially invaded in late 1940 and then transferred control to the US in 1941. 4,000 marines were stationed there prior to 1942.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland_in_World_War_II

And Greenland

>Following surveys in 1940 and 1941, two locations for air bases were located, and a naval base established close to Ivigtut. The U.S. bases and stations were codenamed under the Bluie West and Bluie East moniker.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_in_World_War_II

>President Franklin D. Roosevelt took a strong personal interest in Greenland's fate. On 9 April 1941, the anniversary of the German occupation, the Danish envoy Kauffmann, against the instructions of his government, signed an executive agreement with Secretary of State Cordell Hull, allowing the presence of American troops and making Greenland a de facto U.S. protectorate. The cryolite mine in Ivigtut was a unique asset that made it possible for Greenland to manage fairly well

so you were in fact using incomplete or misrepresented information to push your own poison narrative

The US recognized Vichy France, not the Free French.

Not really, the US used force to occupy Iceland, the British had invaded Iceland's sovereignty. The bases set up in Greenland existed to further the US' reach, both of which flew in the face of the US' supposed neutrality. They both proved the US was preparing to enter the war, likewise none of my other points have been refuted.

Up until 1942, although the US did supply the Free French. The other allies ceased diplomatic relations in 1941 following Barbarossa.

Do you know how long it takes to do that? Real life isn't a video game.

you literally are claiming things because you read a wikipedia synopsis

The US is weird, Americans as a people are like two neighbors who hate each others guts and actively find ways to fuck with each other but the moment that faggot from across the street thinks he can fuck with either of them, bygones are bygones and its fucking on because fuck Jim from across the street, he's an asshole

Or atleast, thats how it used to be

It's true, Marines were stationed in Iceland before the War in the Pacific started

marines.mil/Portals/59/Publications/The United States Marines in Iceland, 1941-1942 PCN 19000412300.pdf

I see nothing wrong with this.

America was the epicenter of degeneracy in Hitler's mind

The Battle of Khalkhin Gol, ya putz

>Can't beat Britain
>Invade USSR
>Troops retreating in USSR
>Declare war on US in hopes that Japan will side with you against USSR
>They don't
>What more, Allied leaders declare they'll prioritize defeating you first

JUST

1942 is out of the time span of the post I was responding to

The thing is, Hitler was probably more surprised by Pearl Harbor than Roosevelt. If the German Navy knew that war was about to be declared, every submarine they had that could reach U.S. waters would have been waiting offshore. I think they actually had two.

By all accounts, Hitler thought the Pearl Harbor attack was brilliant. The next time he met with Japanese diplomats, he was positively thrilled and told them to do it again.

Were there any Japanese generals who thought that they had a real chance against the US?

Pretty much every noteworthy general I've read about seemed to be aware that instigating the war was a bad idea, and that their best bet was grabbing all the islands they could and trying to make the US think putting the resources into the war wasn't worth it and signing a truce.

I mean, what they did was idiotic, but props to them for not deluding themselves.

>Were there any Japanese generals who thought that they had a real chance against the US?

The term "general" is usually associated with land armies. And the Imperial Japanese Army did not want to fight the US. They preferred to attack the USSR instead. But the Navy had more clout in the Japanese government, and the Navy wanted war against the USA.

In 1941, Japan finally had a larger, more powerful navy than the USA. This was a ambition that Japan had chased for a very long time of a painfully slow shipbuilding. And now, at long last, they FINALLY could say with honesty that they had the largest fleet in the world. So the logic was, well, we're probably going to have to war against the US at some point. Might as well do it now, while we're ahead, because we'll never have a better window of opportunity than this.

Fuck, I'd love a game that runs through all these "what if" scenarios with WW2.

>play as a german infantryman fighting alongside the Japanese in the Pacific
>end of level is both of you running the US off of Iwo Jima

>germany doesn't get tied up with the soviets and invades Britain (lol)
>play as a British soldier fending off a German beach invasion
>eventually turns into urban warfare a la Stalingrad in London

>bonus ultra-realism mode where you command a Soviet squad hunting Finnish snipers in the snowy hills of Finland

Someone make it happen.

>Germany
>Successfully invading Britain in any timeline

Notice my little
>(lol)
there

who are the saxons? jutes? angles?

What are battleships?

My assumption has always been that Hitler had no intention of ever fighting America. He might have declared war on us, as we were openly Britain's ally at that point, but I think his hope was that he could conquer mainland Europe and Britain fast enough to consolidate his forces and basically force America to the negotiating table and have a live/let-live relationship.

would chamberlain happen to be your surname?

That's how it still is.

If another 9/11 happened tomorrow Trump's approval rating would jump 40 points and 80% of Americans would demand a ground war inside whichever country our faulty intelligence said was responsible.

Hitler never had the capability to do anything which would have harmed the mainland USA.

yes

also im black

Sure, but that's what the clarity of peace time tells us.

so Afghanistan was not where the plotters and their followers and lieutenants were residing with the blessing of an Islamist government then?

Theres literally a video of him explaining why on youtube.

No, that was quite apparent even back then. The only reason why Roosevelt disliked Hitler so much is because he was a threat to USA allies like France and Britain. And to be clear, I'm saying Roosevelt did the right thing. There are storm-fags who will try to paint him as a warmonger when in reality he was just protecting US interests abroad.

2822795

Do I take the bait, lads?

Do it. And tell us how it went.

>italian detected

It wasn't in the spirit of the alliance to just let Japan go it alone even though they technically didn't have to join.

His generals were glad when Mussolni was deposed because it meant they could work with someone new.

Hitler however didn't want to leave his bro fucked like that and decided to save him.

Its just the kind of guy he was.

Nice get

This and he was literally right. Not even a hurr durr ubermensch kind of guy but take one look at the media and the ideas america exports to the world and you can see where hitler was coming from.

t. kishimoto

>haha lets boycott and shut down jewish businesses, frickin epic
>WTF YOU CAN'T SHUT DOWN OUR BUSINESSES

He underestimated what is USSR capable of and since he was already in Moscow after not much time, he probably thought he had it done and tried thinking about what he'll do next.. hence declaration of war with USA

>Japan attacked first
Huh..? Well.. technically Japan did attack first, but the attack was anything but unprovoked.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure America imposed all sorts of sanctions on Japan, including freezing all Japanese assets within American banks, as well as halting all of their oil exports to Japan, which I think amassed close to an 80% reduction in Japan's available oil, which as you can imagine was what fueled the Japanese (and every other) war at the time.

In fact it was those exact measures detailed above which eliminated any possibility for a Japanese invasion of Soviet Russia from the East, which then allowed Soviet Russia to relocate troops stationed at its Eastern borders, guarding against the now eliminated Japanese threat, to the Western front against the German invasion and prevent Hitler from taking Moscow.

>In 1941, Japan finally had a larger, more powerful navy than the USA.
That's not actually true; they had inferiority vis a vis the U.S. What they did have was superiority against the forces currently in the Pacific, as they figured that most of the forces in the Atlantic would stay there.

Just talking cruiser and above vessels, the tallies were:

U.S.
>7 Fleet carriers. Ranger, Wasp, Yorktown, Enterprise, Hornet, Lexington, Saratoga
>16 Battleships Missississippi, Texas, Washington, Maryland, OKlahoma, Pennsylvania, Tennesee, West Virginia, Arkansas, Idaho, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Arizona, California, Nevada,

> 38 cruisers Quincy, Atlanta, Cincinnatti, Trenton, New Orleans, St Louis, Chicago, Pensacola, Portland, Brooklyn, Omaha, Houston, Augusta, Tuscaloosa, Vincennnes, Withita, Concord, Memphis, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Savannah, San Francisco, Detroit, Helena, Honolulu, Phoenix, Raleigh, Astoria, Chester, Indianapolis, Louisville, Minneapolis, Northhampton, Salt Lake City, Boise, Marblehead, Nashville, Richmond.

Japan, on the other hand, had

>6 Fleet carriers, Kaga, Akagi, Shokaku, Zuikaku, Soryu, Hiryu
>4 lighter carriers, Ryujo, Hosho, Tayo, Zuiho
>7 Battleships, Fuso, Yamashiro, Hyuga, Ise, Nagato, Mutsu, and of course the Yamato.
> 4 Battlecruisers, Kongo, Haruna, Hiei, Kirishima.
>39 Cruisers, Atago, Kako, Mogami, Myoko, Tone, Katori, Natori, Oi, Sendai, Tenryu, Yura, Aoba, Ashigara, Chikuma, Chokai, Furutaka, Idzumo, Kinugasa, Kumano, Maya, Mikuma, Nachi, Suzuya, Takao, Abukuma, Isuzu, Jintsu, Kashii, Kashima, Kinu, Kiso, Kitikami, Kuma, Nagara,Naka, Ping Hai (Captured Chinese), Tama, Tatsuta, Yubari.

By tonnage, since BB's are big, the U.S. still had a fairly healthy advantage. This also ignores the number of vessels in partial stages of construction, with both nations had, but the U.S. had a lot more of.

He was already planning on war with America from the beginning. Read Zweites Buch... Nat. socialism is worship of war. Everyone was a target. Germany vs the world. The only way to "cleanse" the judification was to burn all of it. He foresaw this fight as outlasting even his generation, merely providing the foundation for the dominance of the Aryan race. The Asiatics were the next target after the west was pacified.

Hitler never underestimated the US (in the long-term, his stated biggest threat after the "short-term" threat of the USSR), but he never wished to align with it (degenerate jewified wall street etc). He simply expected the Americans to be able to do nothing in regards to opening the Western front, and they couldn't 'till 1944. What he didn't count on was Italy scrubbing it to the combined Anglo-American north african forces and having to devote precious manpower to guarding the Alps + Stalingrad ruining his hopes of quick victory in Russia. The Axis assault on Moscow was already floundered by Dec. 11 and the Wehrmacht was to face the Soviet counter-offensive + the coldest winter eastern Europe would experience in the whole of the 20th century isolated from Hitler's eye.

The problem with Hitler, and the reason perhaps to this day there is still a cult around his personality, is that he put ideology over realpolitik in increasingly bold steps after he consolidated his power with a noted acceleration after '39. However, there is only so long you can disregard the reality before the reality puts Red Army in Berlin...

>Faherland by Robert Harris.jpg