Roman Empire of the 21st Century

Annexing rather than setting up buffer states is a major part of what brought about the fall of the Roman Empire.

When Rome annexed the Kingdom of Armenia, it removed the buffer between it and the Sassanid Empire. This opened up more direct and vastly more destructive conflicts between the Eastern Empire and the Sassanids. Armenia never turned out to be that valuable to the Empire, but it was extremely costly in the long run.

stay incorrect you complete simpleton

This.

The fact that the Roman Republic is credited with much of Rome's territory is a reminder that an empire doesnt need to be called an empire to be an empire.

all america is missing is a few laws passed under pressure and an Emperor might take the chair.

Of course America has their constitution and the whole democracy freedom thing, as well as the three branch system which prevents such a power to rise.

what ever buffer state they would set up it would revolt against them within a generation or 2

oh shit, professional army boys, WE ROME NOW

surely that's never existed anywhere else

you are an idiot

and I say this with utmost sincerity as an ameircan that hates you

A buffer state doesn't have to be under your direct control, it just has to be not allied to the enemy on the other side. You can let the locals do whatever the fuck they want, and pull some strings occasionally.

Another example is Poland, which served as a buffer between Prussia/Germany and Russia/USSR. While Poland existed, it prevented direct contact and hostility between Russia and Prussia. Then Poland was partitioned, brought the two great powers into direct contact, and very quickly Germany and Russia were at each other's throats. Repeat for Germany and USSR later.

Rome as a state was around for at least 700 years before the Empire, an Empire which collapsed not 500 years later.

maybe finland is the real roman empire, after all, we've got 600 years to find out you stupid prat

Another good example is Cambodia when Siam and Vietnam were fucking around with it. Between tiger and crocodile, they called it.

stop being a cancer to this thread and admit youre being cucked by the US like every other country in the world.

Speaking English and Eating hamburgers isnt all that bad.

yeah but if there was utter world domination and full on hegemony, there wouldnt be an opposing empire, just the obvious rebellions, but with the current political correctness agendas, there would be hardly the reason to rebel except for maybe high taxes which would be ironic since the US broke off from an Empire for similar reasons.

that just shows how idiotic the typical American is where he thinks being rome is a positive

you have no respect for your country, thankfully it is not rome, and you are annoying

We seem like we're in the years between the Pubic Wars and Marius and Sulla, unfortunately.
>sole superpower left following a multipolar world
>social disorder and internal division, particularly dealing with wealth disparities
>populist leaders cropping up on both sides

Keep telling yourself that as you walk past your local US military base in whatever country you live in :^)

I'm American you numbskull

I know how you feel. It's a lot to take in all at once but It's going to be okay, I'm sure someone will redpill you on the American Empire some day. I'm just not personally going to do it.

>Hegemony is not Empire

I'm lucky to be part of the USA; however, hopefully we won't make the same mistakes

>leased military bases means we totally own countries like some kind of roman empire guys

HURRRRRRRRRRRR DUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Imperium > Hegemony.

I mean god, you're losing allies as we speak.

>no US military in Mongolia

never knew that, why doesnt Mongolia like the US?

who taught that chimp to shake hands

cute

I agree it has grown hard for the U.S to keep proper influence over some countries, in my opinion I blame the UN. The ever changing foreign policies has no help either. but since the fall of the berlin wall, Countries are gaining too much independent power to stay comfy with the US as its ruler.

did you know that the german bundeswehr operates a training facility in the united states?

GERMAN EMPIRE NEVER FELL GUYS

Rome:
>military service needed for politics and service
>high elite
>large standing military
>slave based empire
>'democracy' that is rigged for the elites, that becomes an oligarchy, and then an Empire that gets more and more autocratic
>declines due to the provinicialisation of elites, corrupt administration and lack of steady succession

America:
>citizernship without service
>a guy who skipped military service is president
>universities and education for large comparatively large amounts of the population
>money infested politics
>Based on the idea of democracy and freedom
>No civil wars or generals trying to take the throne

Nothing alike.

Where's the Emperor?
No Emperor , no Rome.

I think youre missing the point user. There are obvious differences in political structure after all these two are 2000 years apart to an extent.

what is argued is that the U.S is taking very similar steps that Roma did in its time as a power.

While there are without a doubt many MANY differences, we as Historians love a good correlation of events predictable by looking at other historical events. hence the phrase those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

you musta missed his crowning.

I heard that it's only because Duterte's campaign was bankrolled by China that the Flips seem to pivot towards China but public perception is still heavily favorable towards the US and Dootdoot's pro-China policies are unpopular.

Imperium is infinitely more expensive because you have to go and unfuck the local whenever they get into trouble. Hegemony means you only have to unfuck the most extreme cases.

>map counts stupid shit like embassy guards and dudes going on training missions
LOL

>Duterte doesn't even have his collar done up
How long do you think Xi spent cleaning his hands when the photo ops were over?

Romans were proto-americans

The question regarding Rome's fall is: What makes the 5th century different from the 3rd? Rome withstood the crisis of the 3rd century so why did it collapse in the 5th? I would argue the rise of Sassanid Persia and the heavy migrations of Germans from the north. Is this similar to the US or could this happen to the US? I would argue no.

God Emperor Trump?

If Washington is new Rome. When will Senate stab Trump?

A shortened list of everyone who has ever claimed to be the 'next rome'

>Greeks
>Byzantines
>Italians
>Vatican
>HRE
>French
>English
I've seen a fucking Albanian Claim it
>Spanish
>Russians
>Austrians
>Germans
>Ottomans
>Turks
>Now the United States of America

There will never be "another rome", why can't people just be happy with their own identity

well finland is the rightful heir

To be honest I can't really imagine something like Sulla or Caesar happening in the US, since the people would unanimously and simultaneously shit and arm themselves at even the slightest hint of a military coup. That said, who knows how America will be in 100 years.

Fucking insidious and eternal Finno-Ugrics

>mfw the USA is Carthage and China is Rome
>mfw it's only the beginning

So Roman ...i mean USA will be taken over by Mexican hordes (Germanics)?

So does French Third Republic

The migrations helped, actually. The barbarians that were settled helped replace the declining farming population in areas.

It was more the corruption, lack of a native tax base in the west and an inability to remove barbarian /commanders/ correctly.

Kiiinda this.

We're a land power, sure, but we're MOSTLY a naval power. Rome was always more of a land than naval power.

Unlike Rome, America's wealth comes from trade- like Carthage.

Unlike Rome, America's greatest military might lies in its navy- like Carthage.

Unlike Rome, wealth seems to be the dominant cultural virtue rather than duty and martialism - like Carthage.

I don't like USA=Rome comparisons because they don't fit our economy or the true nature of our military power.
>Enormous navy
>Trading power
>Financial power
>Not a particularly militarized society (we glamorize the military but we aren't Roman tier obsessed with duty and martial prowess)
>Social status tied more to wealth than to birth or duty
Face it, we're more like the Phonecians, Athens, Carthage, Venice, or the British Empire than land-based powers like the Achamenids, Spartans, Romans, Chinese, Germans, etc.

we're closer politically, economically, and socially to the Roman republic than any of those feudal kingdoms or empires, who modeled themselves after imperial rome instead of Republican rome.

You're just mad that we're the only successful LARPers to make another Republican superpower and we just happened to steal their aesthetic on top of it. I mean come on, both have eagles as our symbol, both have Senates and courts, both have a rule of law, both have elected executives that serve terms, both have the most disciplined and powerful military of their time.

Many nations have had one or more of these qualities, but only the US has all of them.

desu

>not a land based power
>has been putting troops on the ground in every country on the planet for a hundred years
>led the offensive on the western front in ww2

say what? Our land military is bigger than anyone on the planet besides china, and we haven't even started drafting yet, imagine our 300 million population getting drafted, only China could come close to matching it.

That's kinda the point.

Any nation with a big population and industrial base can draft a shitload of conscripts and have a big army. You ban build a bajillion state-of-the-art tanks too.

It makes no difference without sealift, airlift, and other logistical capabilities to deploy that force where and when it's needed.

Look at it this way:
China would need only 5-10 years to massively increase the size of its army- double the size if they were really determined.
>That newly-enlarged force is still stuck on land, without "legs" so to speak
The same can't be said for building a large, capable blue water navy. That kind of shit takes decades to make even modest improvements and that's ignoring money issues.

The US, with its massive navy and unmatched logistical capabilities, can put a force pretty much wherever it wants. So long as we control the seas and skies, that doesn't change. Our policymakers understand that and have for quite a while now.

While we may have deployed troops to a ton of places to play at being a land power, we aren't. We're a sea power with an unusually large and capable land-based component. America has its legions but they aren't the backbone of our hard power, it's our fleets.

>it's another jew es ay patriotard thinks his 60% white shithole is gonna be da next roam XD thread

for you
takimag.com/article/one_if_by_land_two_if_by_sea_steve_sailer/print#ixzz2vj4kGZR1

but that's more of a symptom of different time periods, as you say you can't exactly perform on the world stage without a navy, so naturally we focus on that because that's where the tactics of the day demand that your focus be. We're still easily the most militant western country. We have a right to own guns AND form militias-two separate and independent rights-and our population is more armed than any nation. You can't invade us because we wouldn't even need the army, it would be a nightmare to try to occupy the United states when every single house is going to fire shots at you and we already have underground armies of gangs everywhere along with a massive stretch of desert and farmland with nothing but insanely nationalistic hillbillies with AA-12s and AR-15s, it's a logistical nightmare, harder than Russia even because it's on the other side of the world with no land route.

Point is, our military functions strategically just like the Roman military, even if logistics and tactics have changed. They both have two distinct groups: border guards and a professional standing army that moves to support whatever border guard outpost needs reinforcements. How all of that is accomplished is different, but it's no different than the roman's massive cavalry army they stationed in Northern Italy that would rush to any trouble spots as fast as possible, strategically the two nations are mirror images of each other, and they both face the same issue of being overextended and having to rush all over the world to fight off that year's conflict.

but that's more of a symptom of different time periods, as you say you can't exactly perform on the world stage without a navy, so naturally we focus on that because that's where the tactics of the day demand that your focus be. We're still easily the most militant western country. We have a right to own guns AND form militias-two separate and independent rights-and our population is more armed than any nation. You can't invade us because we wouldn't even need the army, it would be a nightmare to try to occupy the United states when every single house is going to fire shots at you and we already have underground armies of gangs everywhere along with a massive stretch of desert and farmland with nothing but insanely nationalistic hillbillies with AA-12s and AR-15s, it's a logistical nightmare, harder than Russia even because it's on the other side of the world with no land route.

Point is, our military functions strategically just like the Roman military, even if logistics and tactics have changed. They both have two distinct groups: border guards and a professional standing army that moves to support whatever border guard outpost needs reinforcements. How all of that is accomplished is different, but it's no different than the roman's massive cavalry army they stationed in Northern Italy that would rush to any trouble spots as fast as possible, strategically the two nations are mirror images of each other, and they both face the same issue of being overextended and having to rush all over the world to fight off that year's conflict

sorry this retarded fucking website refuses to allow me to delete my own duplicate post

please ignore

But Rome was also a logistical and industrial behemoth, not to mention a cultural powerhouse, where the individual's economic and legal significance was huge. Political participation was also a staple of Roman life. It was a wealthy consumer market that sustained the silk road, on top of this.

China does not have such a thriving public life, and also lacks diversity within. Rome had classes, ethnics and religions contest it, China is absolute and unquestionable ruled by a party.

Stay mad, faggot.

Underrated post

Mexico is the US say anything different and you are ill imformed.

Client states rarely ever succeed. The most successful example of one working is maybe modern Japan towards the US and that's it. You can't even use shit like Armenia for Rome and Persia as an example because wars were constantly being fought over it when one king would decide to get uppity and throw his lot in with the Parthians/Sassanids every so often. You want to expand your sphere of influence the only effective way is through annexation and then flooding the annexed place with colonizers and keeping a military presence there to deter or deal with the natives and slowly eliminate the native culture or lessen it to such a degree that it's virtually a non-factor.

American foreign policy is still stuck in the Axis of Evil (aka Neo Cold War) mindset of doing what we can to try and intimidate Russia initially but now expanded to include Iran and China (North Korea is pretty much just a China proxy of course). Of course that's proven to be horribly ineffective as Russia is stronger than it's been in a long time and the annexation of Crimea shows how toothless NATO and the UN are. Iran is the most powerful state in the region and all our buddying up with the Sauds and other Sunni-majority gulf states gets us is a knife in the back. We're losing client states to China (the Philippines) and for the 15 years that we've been dealing with Afghanistan (both militarily and as a client state) it's the Chinese who are the ones reaping the rewards of resource wealth from that country and the Taliban is basically never going to go away. And of course the less said about what we tried to do with Iraq the better as it's drifted more and more into Iran's sphere of influence... the same thing will happen to Kurdistan if we ever try and carve that client state out of Syria.

Soon...

>that the U.S. is a complete mirror of Rome?

Rome was bordered by aggressive neighbors who could at anytime of its existent overrun it and destroy its strongest armies.

> Phoenicians
> Celtic
> Germanic
> Persians
> Huns

America is a huge island with no aggressive enemies bordering it, in fact not other people on the planet could invade America.

> complete mirror

So the complete political relationship of Rome with its neighbors couldn't have been more different, so what you implied was utter tripe not worthy of being printed onto paper to wipe my arse.

> COMPLETELY BTFO

no worries
You make a good point about strategic position- Roman roads standing in as enabling mobility the same way our navy does.

We're also overextended, just like the Romans. The key difference, to my mind, is that they're two different kinds of power: land and sea. They may fill a similar set of functions but there's a key aspect of sea power that doesn't fit your view: protecting INTERNATIONAL trade.

Roman soldiers might have propped up puppet kingdoms or border states or some minor levels of international trade but they weren't the guardians of a vast, complex trade system involving many independent powers.

Our navy? It IS the guardian of the global trade network. It ensures our wealth. We are, despite recent rhetoric, a trading power. Our economy depends on safe, orderly international trade. Rome's didn't- at least not to the extent ours does.

The trading nature of our economy, the fact that we don't share land borders with enemies, and the fact that our primary military power is wrapped up in seapower (that which protects international trade- not merely a force that deploys rapidly) makes us much more like Carthage, Venice, the Dutch, Athens, et. al. than Rome.

We may share a similar SITUATION with Rome but the parallels end there. Our strengths, weaknesses, national character, and economy are very different from those of Rome. Doesn't mean we can't learn from Rome's history, but it does mean we should apply studies of Roman economic and military history to fit our different natures.

Freemasons please leave.

>Speaking English and Eating hamburgers isnt all that bad.

yeah "english" not "american"

>english
So who are these colonists that settled Rome speaking Latin, who were at home on the Sea? Oh yeah, Romans were mountain niggers who would rather march around the Mediterranean that sail through it.

America and Rome couldn't be more different.

It's an abstract mirror. Romans invested in complexity, which they paid for with plunder. Eventually the complexity cost too much and Rome fell.

The US had the fortune to be within a continent that is the jewel of the world. It also had the fortune to be the only intact industrial power left after WWII. With modern industrial societies being absolutely dependent on oil, the US has been able to leverage a world currency to finance ever increasing investments into complexity.

And now there's a frantic gamble as people cross their fingers that silicon valley types will be genius enough to create low, medium, and high "hanging fruit" to leverage against increasing costs of complexity. If oil production started to fall, in an irreversible trend, in conjuction with rising demand, the gamble would be undone.

But it's truly a unique time. Some handsome new york banker with a genius IQ has been the father of hundreds of children via sperm donation. And who knows what forms of cleverness our children will embody and who knows what they might create in turn...even more clever children?

Meanwhile the ambiguous race between complexity cost and cognitive leaps chugs on.

How to fix Veeky Forums:
>Step 1: Ban retarded burgers from posting
Theres no step 2

A party that has acted far more pragmatic in the past 30 years than any other party. Except Estonia, somebody should give their president a world dictatorship.

The fact that 'Baizou" has developed as a derogative, against white leftists, in China speaks volumes about its developing potential immunity against the mind virus of western leftism.

I think the Chinese wouldn't have the same hatred of a google glasses sort of thing. They'd probably appreciate the possibilities of RT augmented reality. The MMO of real life where you grind for money.

Is this some sort of post-ironic shitposting?

they can pretend things are alright for so long. Sesame points are a tool of oppression but oppression can't change practical realities, nor stave off desperation and hopelessness.

the lack of mobility and sheer brutality of their condition makes most Chinese a bit twitchy if not unhinged and cruel. We've all seen the car accidents and non-chalant death in the streets, but have you seen the internal divide in the party and in the state run entities? the execution vans? the uttermost poverty in the forgotten regions that don't feel or want to be Chinese?

How is it shitposting?

I guarantee the chinese will embrace genetic engineering, augmented reality devices, and politically incorrect scanning software for said devices.

They're also trying to avoid US naval superiority by building mass networks of roads between its provinces and the rest of the Eurasian world island.

They'll probably have a crash but unlike the US, there's still vast swathes of "frontier" to exploit within the Eurasian island.

I'm not a humanist and in the war of capital vs. humanity, I bet on capital full throttle. You can't expect relatively sane and moral systems within the limits of a caveman brain in contrast to the vastly expanded problem space of human relations.

>there's still vast swathes of "frontier" to exploit within the Eurasian island.

China hasn't even a fraction of the natural resources and free range the US does, much less something as vital as oil.

>It`s another retarded thinking the third-class geopolitical """analysis""" he likes to read have any impact on reality
One Belt, One Road, lots of shit and corruption

That's why they're exploiting the southern half of Africa. That's also why the US is building a string of bases that go across the middle of Africa...

Remember, Africa is a lot bigger than it looks on conventional maps.

As I said, as long as the returns from complexity match the investment, corruption doesn't matter.

>That's why they're exploiting the southern half of Africa. That's also why the US is building a string of bases that go across the middle of Africa...

shame the US is far, far better at projecting power, influence and commercial might in a trans-continental scale.

for them.

whats going on with the ruling party?

>Investment
Moar liek Debtvestment LMFAO

"match" should be "exceed"*

I half expect that anyone trying to moralize China is either a paid russian shitposter or a paid american shitposter. Of course China probably has a larger army of paid shitposters.

But the thing about China is that, yes
Shit like this happens (construction of unpopulated cities as a jobs program). But you're beginning to see the rise of, almost, autonomous trading city-states along the coast that have far more power to regulate their own shit.

And of course the wealthy are hedging against a possible political shakeup, and/or rescession, by buying property in the jewel of the world.(North America). Which is FAR different from saying the US regime is a jewel of the world.

>whats going on with the ruling party?

there's a division between those that want China to project power by merit of military force and have regional ambitions and those that prefer other ways to strengthen the country's position. China sways back and forth between being extremely aggressive to Japan and Korea and being a very neutral mediator to western interests.

Ayy enjoy your warlord states

CAO CAO DID NOTHING WRONG

>shame the US is far, far better at projecting power, influence and commercial might in a trans-continental scale.

It only takes one of the major oil countries to accept either a variety of alternate currencies, or the yen, for the US regime to collapse. We're gangsters who force the world to adopt, a currency we print, as the foundation of industrial societies ability to continue being "modern".

As tragic as the Iraq war was, everything was a smoke screen to 1. Destabilize MENA for the House of Saud and 2. Prevent a secular leader from attempting to claim a piece of turf from more powerful gangsters.

That's a foggy vision. The investment in increasing the cognitive capacity of infants might lead to a state of hyper-predator versus hyper-predator, our children attempting a Titanomachy against past generations for incompetence. I'm hoping it'll be interesting times in the next 3 decades to say the least.

>We're gangsters who force the world to adopt, a currency we print, as the foundation of industrial societies ability to continue being "modern".

by giving them more and better food, services and stable, trustworthy trade.

>Mentally challenged futurist thinks his opinion matters
>When he dosn`t even understand that increasing automation in combination with the increasing controllability of computers by means of audio and touch mean that any capitalist system will extinguish the ability to read in the broader population out of efficiency darwinism.
I bet you feel really stupid right now

America is either
A.) A perfect muxture of rome and carthage
Whether we are a foot step in China's rise to power or the new leader of a age of dominance will be decided by the actions of future presidents
B.) Some new type of civilization that hasn't existed before and will have a very different history than rome or carthage(ex. Britian, France)

>I bet you feel really stupid right now

Ah that would be an interesting future. A "regression" into pictographic communication combined with forms of synthaesia (for the masses).

>by giving them more and better food, services and stable, trustworthy trade.

ME is a shithole because the House of Saud wants their wealth and power and we don't want a repeat of Saddam. A partnership made in hell. As a bargain, the Sauds destabilize other regions in the world.

The ruling class will say the world isn't a zero-sum game but then play like the world is a zero-sum game.

The duplicity of it all.

I think its fair to point out that I just came here to shitpost

Though I agree with your basic assesment.

is that Andy?

is he an Andycap meme?

...

this is bullshit Landwolf is the king of all degenerates