Tell me about medieval Europe's tax policies

It's 100% boring shit that does not mean anything. Studying ancient tax policies is LITERALLY stupid.

what's up with ugly red trees

This fucking fat retard doesn't even know how the middle-ages functioned and thinks it's just knights fucking around, nobles and the rest were unimportant dirt eating peasants.

There was no real medieval tax policy, because the real economy was not in the hands of the landed nobility (which was indeed taxed in the form of tribute).

A huge part of the medieval and Renaissance economy was actually in the hands of trader merchants and burghers, who did not answer to any noble at all. This is why the richest parts of europe were the Italian city states, and the low countries.

Enlighten us user!

>and the low countries.
In the low countries the cities were not under direct control of the nobility but the Nobility could levy taxes on the cities. For example in 1445 the Burgundian duke levied a 10% tax on all ale in the cities around the Rhine.

Yeah they could tax individual products per the consent of the King or a Duke, but they never imposed a flat tax on property.

But the fact still remains, there was a huge tension between the ones who accumulated wealth and the nobility who depended on landed farmers (peasants). This is why it was in general i In fact by the high middle-ages, burgeoning large landowners in the countryside, known as yeomen in England were former peasants that had saved up their income and could become independent freeholders answering only to the king. For such landowners the Black Death was a blessing as they could buy up more land and accumulate even more product by paying rent to the feudal lord etc.

I would go even as far as to say, that economically the nobility of western europe stopped being important by the 1200's, and that their role was more as political enforcers of the king's order in the countryside, since in the cities a whole different regime had emerged.

>people unironically believe that.

Never heard anyone saying that.

So who exactly would they tax? Peasants? I thought they were paid daily and didn't save money.

Do you have any sources about medieval taxation?

i hate this guy so much

Tax farming was the situation normal for England even before the Norman conquest. The Doomsday book was just an example of what was already happening. People were being taxed for what they had, and good records were being kept of what people had. Additionally, law and order was a tax as the Sheriff would roll around and put people in jail and levy fines against them. Taxes were few and far between in actually being paid without a sophisticated legal system to maintain the collection of revenue. For this reason, England was far ahead of other countries in Europe since its system of revees was very advanced. Anywhere in the Kingdom would feel the might and grace of the monarch as the reeve rides into town to try people for murder, and charge people fines for it that they/the village would have to pay.

>This fucking fat retard doesn't even know how the middle-ages functioned and thinks it's just knights fucking around, nobles and the rest were unimportant dirt eating peasants.
He got feudal loyalties at least, instead of meme nationalism that most fantasy authors just take for granted.

One reason why protestantism spread was because the it allowed the churches to become the king's property or/and heavily tax them.

>the king's
what king would that be exactly?

Yes, because the church and clergy holding vast swaths of land and ruling over people like serfs is such a good idea. The abolition of the church domains during reformation was a liberation.

>Yes, because the church and clergy holding vast swaths of land and ruling over people like serfs is such a good idea.
So...just like the feudal lords?

But now they won't pay tax or fighy your wars and give their extra dough to an occasionaly hostile foreign sovereign

is it wrong, though?
other than religion having a very little role in ASoIaF

There are auks in Westeros?

Primarily consumption taxes instead of income based taxes.

Of course nobles didn't pay taxes except during times of distress.

Danish king Christian III for example.
But there are numerous German princes, and Western kings that did this trick

He somehow manage to make a song of ice and fire to be simultaneously far too convoluted for its own good and more boring than the historical events it's based on (War of the Roses).

There were plenty of Bishops who fought in wars. And many paid back in terms of the service rendered as administrators or advisers to the court.

During the Battle of Mohacs in Hungary for example, the army was commanded by the Archbishop of Esztergom, and present in the command staff were also large numbers of Bishops. So much so that when they were btfo by the Turks, Hungary faced a clerical disaster in addition to the existential one.

>convoluted
maybe if you have autism

Every fantasy trader has autism

They didn't fight anymore after protestantism, because there were no bishops anymore. That was the whole point.

For protestant nations anyway.

How realistic is A song of Ice and Fire?

>Mfw people keep insisting tywin brutality is actually Practical in the long-term

how common was killing off the entire house of your enemy?

Well, in this case "the entire house" was... A guy and his mom. Pretty feasible actually.

Tywin eradicated the entire House of Castamere

None because that armour and weapons are shit
They would survive in some form or another

well, was it normal to at least try to eradicate an entire house?

All in one go?

kill everybody you can get your hands on, and offer money for every other member of the house killed

The Abbasids did that with the Ummayads, a prince scaped and seize Cordoba though.
Carolingians did get rid of their rivals too, most famously Merovingians, but also Agilolfins. Not always through seer violence but forcing them to bekome monks too.

I can only honestly remember this happening one time In the Holy Roman Empire. Chruch and some noble family gang up on this other noble family. Anyways to cut a long story short. Every single family member died.

Look at medieval Scotland for examples of what happens when you have noble families running around killing each other willy-nilly. Pretty sure the red wedding is based off an actual event in Scotland where someone broke the rules of hospitality and massacred their guests, which in turn led to a huge shit storm because you just don't do that.

The Black I dont remeber what
There is also the French Saint Barthelemy´s Massacre.

it's practical governance, just shitty parenting which fucked up his kids so bad they ruined everything for him.

>expecting a bunch of history autists to be able to appreciate things like artistic literature and narrative

>GoT
>artistic literature

>genre fiction
>artistic literature

nonexisting like yours

Not its not user.

>artistic literature

>all the places have a two part name such as
>Oakhill
>Silverhill
>Storms end
>iron island
>winterfell
>castelry rock / castle rock (bravo)
>old town

I could go on forever

Not that hard if it's just a single family. The Arkel family in the Dutchy of Holland kind of shared the same fate.

>How realistic is A song of Ice and Fire?
you tell me

Ox ford
Man Chester
Col Chester
Ben Nevis
Brad ford
Inver Ness
West Minster

Pretty fucking common buddy.

Also, Braavos Pentos Mereen etc.

>But now they won't pay tax or fighy your wars
>what are the papal states
>what is the prince bishopric of liege
>what is the bishopric of utrecht
>what are the other ecclesiastical states in the HRE

He was talking about AFTER protestantism.

>Shits on other works for whitewashing or misrepresenting the medieval era
>It's ok when he does it though

> have noble families running around killing each other willy-nilly.
that can describe anywhere in medieval europe between 1000 and 1400

>implying the reformation didn't bring greater moral control over the people by trying moral offenses.
>no more drunkeness in church
>no more drunken priests
>no more rowdy churches where you can disrupt the pastor
>pastor now keeps records of you
>pastor uses the pulpit to propagandize on behalf of the head of the state church, i.e. your king or other sovereign

One country maybe but not the whole continent.

How is that relevant to what I said about bishops and clergy fighting and subterfuging like the local nobility.

Correct, but Europe isn't monolingual like westeros.

>implying the reformation didn't bring greater moral control over the people by trying moral offenses.
So it *wasn't* actually a liberation? More like Christianity going full Sharia? Lmao.

That's because they are nobility

Its extremely common here too. The Hague stands for "The counts forest", and all the -dam cities refer to a dam and a local water source. Amsterdam, Rotterdam etc.

Yes its wrong

The dual name thing is pretty common everywhere in Europe.

Please enlighten us why you think it is