How were the Mongols able to inflict such damage on Europe? They were outnumbered, lacked the wide open terrain where their style worked best, lacked any siege equipment or proper auxiliaries during most battles fighting mostly on horseback. If the Khan hadn't died leading to a civil war it seems like they could have at least continually ransacked the countryside at will.
What benefits if any did the Mongols bring? People will often mention the silk road but they didn't build it, it was already there around the time they popped up, and there is little talk about how destruction of various cities/peoples may have negatively effected it. Besides inspiring Timur I'm not really sure what they left behind when it comes to technological, legal, cultural, etc achievements. One of the unusual things about the Mongols is instead of spreading their culture like Alexander some of them assimilating into the culture of those they conquered.
How well unified were they? Right when they reached their zenith they quickly fell apart and starting feuding among each other. How long did the Mongols continue to be a threat after the empire started falling apart?
Once one dies the other dies with it, gengis khan's death destroyed all unity and with it, all accumulated momentum
Wyatt Davis
Arguably one of the worst things that has ever happened in the history of mankind.
William Johnson
> How were the Mongols able to inflict such damage on Europe? What damage? Europe was the least affected part of Eurasia.
Owen Watson
>acked the wide open terrain where their style worked best, lacked any siege equipment or proper auxiliaries during most battles fighting mostly on horseback.
This is not true. They weren't just retards in horses. They fought on horseback when that was the best tactic (most of the time), but they were extremely adaptable. They used all sorts of siege tactics when needed.
Sebastian Sanders
>What damage? The parts they did hit (Hungary, Croatia, etc) they hit pretty hard.
I guess I fell for a meme then.
Eli Brown
This is mostly true. The Mongols captured a lot of Chinese and forced them to either teach them how to make or forced them to build siege engines. Also, being an extremely good mounted archer was like having cheat codes on flat land during the time period. They btfo almost every army they came against until the Mamluks. I'm not sure how well they would've done in the forest of Europe, but I'm certainly glad they stopped at Hungary or I would probably be part Mongol rape baby.
Oliver Green
>How were the Mongols able to inflict such damage on Europe? The Mongols had been fighting majority-infantry armies for decades while Europeans had little experience fighting all-cavalry armies on that scale which explains massive defeats like Mohi.
>What benefits if any did the Mongols bring? Gunpowder is probably the most pivotal technology brought by the Mongols.
>How well unified were they? As long as the Mongol state supported a well organized army that brought fortune in conquest the far flung lesser warlords would continue to lend support for a share of the booty. After the Mongol empire had expanded over 1000s of miles and their conquests ground to a halt this system broke down and they focussed on internal power struggles and other goals in life.
Lucas Bennett
>What damage? Europe was the least affected part of Eurasia. >not India hmm
Hudson Brooks
Work on your reading comprehension mate. Just because somewhere else there was more damage, doesn't mean there was none in Europe.
Mason Collins
What decisive defeats Gunpowder had already got into England before the mongols and India was the prime giver of it When people say Silk Road they mean one unified state owning the Silk Road so you didn't have to keep on paying tariffs After they completely fell apart Russian princes collected tax for them and then swiftly stole all their clients, hence why Muscovy was seen as the 'uniter' of Russia
Brandon Myers
>When people say Silk Road they mean one unified state owning the Silk Road so you didn't have to keep on paying tariffs
completely wrong
Gavin Adams
T. Vasili Ivanovich
Charles Davis
> lacked any siege equipment or proper auxiliaries during most battles fighting mostly on horseback
Stop 'learning' from mems, you idiot.
Caleb Williams
Mongols weren't just nothing but guys on horseback with no siege engines or infantry.
Bentley Miller
>How were the Mongols able to inflict such damage on Europe? You mean Huns right? Mongols crushed on first country that organized proper defense. Huns sacked Rome and plundered Europe.
Brandon Morgan
>have to pay one tariff to get through Mongolia territory >pay twenty tariffs to get through twenty statelets T. Cenk Ugyur Actually British (White)
Parker Edwards
>When people say Silk Road they mean one unified state owning the Silk Road so you didn't have to keep on paying tariffs
Didn't the Mongols have extensive knowledge of sieges, thanks to their previous campaigns in China and the Middle East?
Tyler Young
This.
In terms of damaging Europe the Huns and the Magyars were much more devastating hordes than the Mongols.
John Sanchez
Oh boy here comes that fucking Hungarian with his "muh castles"
Owen Stewart
Why are we discussing Finland on Veeky Forums?
Carson Anderson
I literally have no idea what you're talking about, mongols lost in their own game of cavalry spam to the better players.
Alexander Foster
>It's pop Veeky Forumstorian gets his memes BTFO episode I've yet to see that guy's muh castles theory to be disproven
Jackson Brown
>They btfo almost every army they came against until the Mamluks Reminder that Ain jalut was a battle against a Mongol holding force and not the army proper because berke became a Muslim and got asshurt at hulagu for raping Baghdad and started a civil war in the middle of a campaign
Ryan Martin
They even out numbered the Mongols. Notice how it wasn't Hulagu at the battlefield but just a guy in charge of one Tumen.
Adam Lee
I made a list of Mongol human achievements in the last anti-Mongol thread, but I lost it.
Suffice it to say they gave us the world as we know it.
Nathan Robinson
Found it >the compass >the cannon >gunpowder >the number 0 >chariots >planes >submarines >cruiseliners >bestiality >bad dragon dildos (made with real silk fur) >the iPhone >the ICBM
Elijah Garcia
steppechads were so based
Isaac Price
>Gunpowder had already got into England before the mongols and India was the prime giver of it what gave you that idea
Ian Rodriguez
>trusting european sources Ah yes. And I suppose Alexander really did face off against a million Persian soldiers. Great choice.
Joseph White
t. Mussulman
Jordan Davis
A book I read on gunpowder by an actual historian
Brody Green
>mudslime sources say [citations needed] l m a o
Charles Watson
You mean apart from the "impossible" to take castles in Syria and the behemoth fortifications in China that fell?
Cooper Hill
Moghuls =/= Mongols
Julian Rogers
book?
Justin Sullivan
>The Chinese city of Zhongdu had 18 miles of walls 40 feet high and 50 feet thick, with three lines of moats. The Mongols began besieging it in spring of 1214; multiple assaults failed. The siege didn't succeed until over a year later, in summer of 1215, when the governor of the city gave up hope and took poison. By then the citizens were eating corpses.
>Further south, the city of Xiangyang withstood siege for three years, thanks to both extensive stores and occasional resupply from across the Han River. It wasn't defeated until 1271, when the Mongols put together a siege train of high-powered counterweight trebuchets to break the walls. (In 1291, counterweight trebuchets enabled the Muslims to conquer the double-wall fortified Crusader city of Acre in a month and a half.)
>Now, European fortifications of the same period were no worse in simple stoneworking skill -- the donjon of Vincennes (still standing!) goes up 150 feet, although its walls are only 10 feet thick.
>But the raw mass of Chinese fortifications utterly exceeds what a European monarch could afford or justify at this period. In Europe of that time, an impressive castle plan would be something like Edward I's Beaumaris, a rectangle about 500 feet on a side with two concentric walls. Compare that to Zhongdu above. Likewise, long-but-successful sieges in Europe were measured in months, not years. >So the Mongols needed a much larger siege train, and far more troops, and hence far more supplies, as well as much greater persistence, to take the Chinese fortified cities than was required for European fortifications in this period.
there is a difference between sieging a city and sieging one hundred castles. Don't forget that European power structures were decentralized and feudalistic, taking one castle and overthrowing a single lord won't actually have that large an impact.
There is also the terrain and geography to consider, European castles were often in ridiculously hard to reach locations.
John Barnes
Weapons and warfare in renaissance europe Bert a hall
Brody Bell
But the mongols got btfo in Hungary after fortification efforts. Pretty much every time the Mongols entered European lands after first contact they got BTFO.
Not sure where the Mongol meme comes from, they routinely got their ass handed to them even at their strongest points such as the second invasion of Hungary. Hungary wasn't even that strong of a Kingdom at the time anyways, they built a half hundred new castles and the mongols crumbled and were slaughtered.
Eli Smith
Hungary is half across the continent from their Center of Power in Mongolia/Northern China
Cooper Wright
are you retarded?
Connor Edwards
Wrong. Their Mongol neighbors were right next door. What are steppes? They got so utterly btfo, their entire people became a footnote in history that was hardly remembered after even a hundred years.
Hudson White
>Inter-Continental Ballistic Mongol Seems legit
Hunter Nguyen
Land travel is always more expensive then Sea travel, Even flat barren land.
>They got so utterly btfo, their entire people became a footnote in history that was hardly remembered after even a hundred years. Are we talking about the Mongols or Hungary here?
Hunter Diaz
>But the mongols got btfo in Hungary after fortification efforts. Pretty much every time the Mongols entered European lands after first contact they got BTFO. They didn't get BTFO, they inflicted heavy damage on the kingdoms in the area before fucking off to fight over who would inherit the empire. Many victories like the one in Croatia were bitter ones because they mostly ignored the fortifications and ransacked the countryside.
>They got so utterly btfo Yeah by themselves after splitting into warring factions.
Jayden Wood
Damage to Europe -> Khan actually wanted peaceful relations with the west. 500 merchants were sent to the west border, but were captured and imprisoned by Islamic ruler. Instead of releasing those merchant, he killed them. Khan got pissed and the ruler with all his kingdom were lost -> that made Mongols to travel west, but not so much organized as their expansion to the south and east (failure during Japan invasion is known) It were diverse clans, a fallout of original Khan empire, that entered Europe on their own whim. As such - they're less organized and the damage/ransacking was mediocre.
Only benefit I can think of : behave nicely to a lion pub, because when you won't, he will get back to you as a lion and erase your from history.
Unity? It was power over unity. As mongols "ran" through different states, enemy soldiers could join or die. That also explains the "fell apart". The threat itself is questionable, different Asian writings tell a bit different story. But mostly all agree on deep hatred against the Mongolians. That would probably explain not few clans rather escaping to the west. (similar to exiled vikings, who did sail to the west) Interesting side-story.. dying Khan asked his successor(s) to never build stone cities. They did anyway - all those cities turned into graves of their Mongolian inhabitants.
Justin Cox
>Land travel is always more expensive than sea travel With all the costs and dangers of buying ship(s) and navigating stormy oceans using antique charts, how do you figure thats less costly than just outfitting a caravan and going on the silk road?
Robert Phillips
>Interesting side-story.. dying Khan asked his successor(s) to never build stone cities. They did anyway - all those cities turned into graves of their Mongolian inhabitants. They should have just combined many Yurts to make a Yurt Castle.
Isaac Cruz
Mongol nomadic hordes were literally neighbors to Hungary at the time. The Nogai/golden hordes were crushed easily by fucking Lithuania of all countries user. It defeats the whole "Me mongol me strong" when you need an entire world united to defeat some minor European kings.
John Green
yurts allowed this two quick solutions : 1) disease - you run form it (what usually would work for many deadly diseases that spread in stone-cities much faster) 2) besieging avoidance. "lord, huge revenge-seeking army is approaching our gates"... GTFO (possible when you pack your yurt, not when when in huge castle/city... unless it is Moscow and want play Napoleon a nice prank)
Jaxson White
Only the leadership of the Nogai/Golden Horde would be actual Mongols the rest would just be random Turks/Cumens they conquered.
Sebastian Rogers
user those are the same fucking people as the mongols and the religious difference would be little to none since it was a Muslim state.
Jose Clark
>.The Nogai/golden hordes were crushed easily by fucking Lithuania of all countries user. What time period are you referring to? During the 1259 invasion the Mongols plundered and left, they didn't get crushed. After that Lithuania began to grow in power and would score many successes against the Golden Horde. Lithuania was no joke during that period.
Lucas Powell
>iit: people who derive personal self worth from historical bullshit by treating history like sportsball
Juan Long
>Interesting side-story.. dying Khan asked his successor(s) to never build stone cities. They did anyway - all those cities turned into graves of their Mongolian inhabitants. Can you elaborate?
Zachary Walker
>to defeat some minor European kings. Lol
Jason Williams
>e-european king strong! >m-mongol man weak...
Carson Rogers
Mughals are persianized mongols, specifically the Chagatai khanate and direct lineage from Genghis Khan.
