Here we talk about the world's first global superpower.
Was the mass influx of precious metals really the only reason for gigantic inflation? Only one fifth of all precious metals from the New World actually went to Spain, the so-called "King's fifth".
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There is an old poem by Francisco Quevedo that says that gold was "born in the Indies.... And goes to Genoa to die." Geoffrey Parker posits that the Spanish Empire had showed signs of decline by the early to mid 17th century.
>the world's first superpower
>not Portugal
nigga u done goofed
>Implying that Portugal was even on Castile level
Bitch Izzy show you the place were you belong moustache fuckers
nigga a quick search for "first global empire" will provide you with the answers you need.
To reply to the thread and stop this pissing competition, one fifth of the gold went direcly to THE CROWN. There was also a lot of gold that came to spain but not direcly to the king.
The problem wasrhe lack of centralization and how little Aragon,Valencia and Catalonia contributed. Olivares did nothing wrong and both Portuguese and Catalans should be hanged on sight
>not even 5 replies and portuguese butthurt already echoes through the thread
>"first global empire"=first super power
Uhm sweetie I wouldn't be so sure
Administrative collapse under the weight of trying to be the Holy Roman Emperor as well as the Emperor of the new world. Lack of population density to actually settle all the lands they controlled. In ability to increase the productivity of the land they have hardly. Centuries of war depleting their population.
When Spain sailed to England to turn it back Catholic that was the signs of a super power. They quickly declined after the failed armada.
The first superpowers were the US and USSR m8. Spain was, and is not a superpower. They were a global empire
Portugal was a global empire too user
But they aren't even close to being tied in power.
So to even call them the same title would be misnomer.
>They quickly declined after the failed armada.
Yeah, like 50 years later. That was lightning fast decline!
Truth is, Spain decline was from a combination of causes. First of all, Spain wasn't a unified country, but a pathwork of several kingdoms that simply happened to share the same king. Each kingdom had its own institutions, laws and interests and each fiercely guarded its autonomy. It was a complete headache to govern, even bigger clusterfuck to raise any money. IIRC, only in Castille were the kings actually legally able to raise some taxes, elsewhere they had to rely on the local assemblies which usually refused any money to the Crown.
>muh Armada
Spain actually became more powerfull at sea and the dominant naval power in the years after.
For close to a hundred years Spanish were the policemen of Europe as well as Overseas across an actual global empire was dealing in China, and held two other large and advanced native empires under them, two current whole nation states, half of a nation state, and was dealing with the whole fucking holy roman empire. The monarchial family of spain was overwhelmed by this, and as quick as their rise came so too was the fall.
Spanish armada = England on the rise with anti-spanish sentiment = Another competitor in the New World. If England was crushed and sacked by foreign invaders the country would have had a considerable setback.
I always wonder wtf do they teach kids in England to believe this crap.The real naval decline started at Dunas which is widely accepted by everyone.But somehow a fleet that was dismantled by the weather in a war that England lost is somehow the decline of the empire, also forgetting that Spain buttfucked England in the war after
Not much else to be proud of. Between getting fucked by France and an ineffective intervention in the Neitherlands, most of the foreign [european] policy of England in the second half of the 16th century was a colossal failure-
This and the fact that England actually took over as preeminent naval power from Spain eventually, it just happened a couple of decades after the Armada and after a bit of hassle with the Dutch.
>Spanish armada = England on the rise with anti-spanish sentiment = Another competitor in the New World. If England was crushed and sacked by foreign invaders the country would have had a considerable setback.
Dude England got buttfucked in the second part of the comflict and then lost another war to Spain.Until Dunas Spain had the biggest fleet in the world and it was replaced by the Dutch fleet not by the English one
>it just happened a couple of decades after the Armada
It took more than a century.The armada is just symbolic for England but it wasn't some turning point at all.In fact England collapsed economically after the first anglo-spanish war
Why were they so aesthetic?
Role of gold in historyt is overrated. Spain had excellent economics and started falling only after 1640 defeat.
Good night sweet prince
>also forgetting that Spain buttfucked England in the war after
Except Philip failed to accomplish his initial objective of conquering England. Also the English did fine against the Spanish in the ensuing war.
>Except Philip failed to accomplish his initial objective of conquering England.
His objective was that England would fuck off from Flanders which he accomplished
>Also the English did fine against the Spanish in the ensuing war.
>Declares war
>Goes bankrupt
>Loses its Caribean possesions
>Inmediatly sue for peace
>We did fine lads.We just got ass fucked
LMAOing @ U
>most of the foreign [european] policy of England in the second half of the 16th century was a colossal failure
>two armadas are sent to england, both which get wrekt by weather, which is equivalent to throwing money in a huge sinkhole.
>helps netherland preserves its independence.
>helps the protestant faction in France triumph over the Catholic one.
>wreaks havoc on Spanish shipping and naval yards
>>helps netherland preserves its independence.
The English navy in the Netherlands was a collosal failure.In fact when Farnese heard that there were English troops aiding the Dutch he decided to just charge as English soldiers had the reputation of being horrible soldiers
>>helps the protestant faction in France triumph over the Catholic one.
Nope.England supported the Hugenots that were the losing side
>>wreaks havoc on Spanish shipping and naval yards
Nope.English privateering was extremelly inneficient and Drake's autism destroyed 1/4th of England's savings
You forgot that even after armada England lost and signed shamefull capitulation.
>Declares war
Not really. The Dutch offered Elizabeth the crown, which she decline, but Philip took this as a sign of the English meddling in his sovereignty. There were plenty other matters that led both sides to escalate a war.
my bad THREE armadas were sent, and all failed due to poor planning and bad weather
>Goes bankrupt
I don't think so. Yes the Crown went into debt but it never had to declare bankruptcies. Meanwhile Philip II declared bankruptcy THREE times throughout his reign,.
>Loses its Caribean possesions
Yes there were Caribbean blunders, but the English also eliminated the Spanish presence in Newfoundland and by extension a strategic area of north america. The war also prompted them to seriously consider settling North America as a bulwark against Spanish expansion.
Furthermore, the Spanish attempted to aid rebellion in Ireland but in the end the English secured their rule over the island. Irish problems cost more than the war with Spain and that was mostly cause it was poorly managed in the beginning.
>Inmediatly sue for peace
where are you getting this from?
>Came to thread hoping to read interesting things about Spain
>Somehow manages to be yet ANOTHER fucking thread pissing and moaning about le evil Anglooooooooooos
Can we stop pretending and just put flags up on Veeky Forums so it can be the more pretentious /int/ it wants to be?
>The English navy in the Netherlands was a colossal failure.
English army men did fine, they were present at a lot of critical engagements that saw the Dutch reconquest of the southern netherlands. I think you're confusing it with Elizabeth's earlier expeditions before war broke out with the Spanish, such as the Duke of Leicester's terribly led expedition to aid the Netherlands.
>.In fact when Farnese heard that there were English troops aiding the Dutch he decided to just charge as English soldiers had the reputation of being horrible soldiers
lmao its funny you say this because last time I checked this was the very time Parma died with a lead slug through his heart, after which Maurice securely attained Netherland's de facto independence
>His objective was that England would fuck off from Flanders which he accomplished
lmao no it wasn't. The objective was to conquer England, or at the very least force Elizabeth to sue for peace and withdraw from the netherlands (objectives that weren't even achieved at the peace in 1605). This would also bring England back into the Catholic fold. Without England the Dutch revolt would have collapsed, and that was Philip II's ultimate hope. This didn't happen and Philip lost because he didn't reconquer the entirety of the Low Countries.
>Nope.English privateering was extremely inefficient and Drake's autism destroyed 1/4th of England's savings
The plan was to use privateering to fund the war. This objective was never attained but Drake and other privateers did do a fair amount of damage to Spanish shipping. Drake I don't think was totally responsible for the English Armada's failure, nor did he have a hand in Raleigh and Essex's expedition. Drake was competent enough and helped battle the Armada.
also
>Nope.England supported the Hugenots that were the losing side
you realize the huguenot candidate Henry of Navarre won? He did convert back to catholicism to win over the rest of France but that was a realpolitik move. The huguenots also "won" because Henry ensured their toleration, a policy that would only be done away with about 70 years later.
I'm not even anglo but that hispanoboo is just distorting facts and I feel the need to correct it.
Can this be a Spain thread and not an Anglo thread?
Why was commerce in the Spanish empire so shit?
The Hugenots got genocided and England kept supporting them. England didn't win
>I don't think so. Yes the Crown went into debt but it never had to declare bankruptcies. Meanwhile Philip II declared bankruptcy THREE times throughout his reign
England got fucked for 40 years financially. Spain just defaulted and still had a financial
>Yes there were Caribbean blunders, but the English also eliminated the Spanish presence in Newfoundland and by extension a strategic area of north america. The war also prompted them to seriously consider settling North America as a bulwark against Spanish expansion.
Furthermore, the Spanish attempted to aid rebellion in Ireland but in the end the English secured their rule over the island. Irish problems cost more than the war with Spain and that was mostly cause it was poorly managed in the beginning.
Nothing of these happened in the second anglo-Spanish war
>where are you getting this from?
Read about the second Anglo-Spanish war
>The objective was to conquer England
No it wasn't. The invasion was planned later on by Bazan. The English were aiding the Dutch and he declared war and humillated English troops in every single land battle. Specially Gemboux. The invasion was meant to atop the flow of troops to the United provinces. As always anglos need to lie to justify their actions
>The Hugenots got genocided
St. Bartholomew's was limited to Paris. Most Huguenots lived in south and southwest France.
The Huguenots won their freedom to worship.
>Nothing of these happened in the second anglo-Spanish war
en.wikipedia.org
It was happening in the 1590s concurrent to the war with Spain. The Spanish even landed troops in Ireland, so the causes were link, especially if we conceive of it as a sectarian conflict as Philip II did. Ireland was the biggest conflict that the Tudors fought and it consumed more money and resources than the Spanish war ever did.
>Read about the second Anglo-Spanish war
That isn't what happened.
>England got fucked for 40 years financially. Spain just defaulted and still had a financial
Its simply false. When Elizabeth died her successor James I inherited very low debts close to something like 300k pounds, which was minimal at the time. James would go about spending many times this much and getting as many times in debt as Elizabeth ever did.
Source: John Guy, Tudor England
>The invasion was meant to atop the flow of troops to the United provinces. As always anglos need to lie to justify their actions
Dude, the ultimate objective was to crush the Dutch Revolt. Invading England was part of this larger strategy, even if the plan developed later in the conflict. The Spanish failed to conquer the northern part of the Low Countries and de facto recognized it in 1607 or so with the Ten Year Truce. This was a strategic failure by any measure. From the start of the war in 1585 to the end Spain didn't make any strategic gains in the Netherlands. Alba dying was also a blow to the Spanish side.
>The English were aiding the Dutch and he declared war and humillated English troops in every single land battle. Specially Gemboux.
I'll have to read more on this. I'm more well read in Elizabethan England but not the Dutch Revolt.
>second anglo-Spanish war
wait I'm talking about the First Anglo Spanish War...
That's a totally different conflict though unrelated to the one a century earlier.
The English troops did extremelly poorly in the Netherlands
We were talking about the first anglo saxon war and the following war
Why have Spain and Italy been so closely related to each other over the centuries?
What makes Spain different from all other barbaric bastard sons in the eyes of the italians?
>Why have Spain and Italy been so closely related to each other over the centuries?
They are pretty close.Also Genovese merchants had a boner with Castilian trade which is were most of the Spanish/Italian interaction comes from.Also Aragonese influence in Naples was seen with good eyes deep into the XVIII century.When the Spanish troops landed on Naples in the war of the triple alliance the local population supported them with supplies and men
Happy delayed birthday Phillip
El Rey.
Amados y fieles nuestros: a Nuestro Señor ha placido alumbrar a la Serenísima Emperatriz, nuestra muy cara y muy amada muger, con un fijo, que parió a los XXI del presente. La qual, aunque ha pasado harto trabajo, queda ya, loores a Dios, muy buena. Plegará la divina bondad que, deste fructo que ha sido servido de darnos, sucederá mucho sevicio suyo, establecimiento de beneficio público y reposo de nuestros reinos y señoríos.
Avisámosvos dello por nuestro contentamiento y para que déis gracias a Dios por tanto beneficio.
Data en Valladolid a XXIII de mayo de MDXXVII.
Yo, el Rey.