so Veeky Forums I was thinking about economics in the United States and the minimum wage
It seems like the issue has a fan of responses; from high MW to no MW
I was thinking what would happen if the federal government relinquished any laws about the minimum wage and let the individual states decide their economic workforce policies, in this case the minimum wage?
I was thinking what might happen is that more ideologically leaning states like Alabama and California would go extreme and say no MW in Alabama and a $15.00 MW in California, then the more moderate states finding their own balance based on their economies and cultural factors
If that happened, I think we could legitimately see a rise in industry and profitability.
The more conservative states advocating for a smaller or non existent MW could become centers for Industrial growth and allow corporations to use the cheaper labor to produce goods domestically while also using more liberal states keen on using a high MW to sell their domestic goods with their higher wage incomes
Since each state could decide their own stance, the people would be less upset at the national scale if they don't like their state's proposal and deal with it in a smaller scale with a more reactive state government that has less chores and duties than the federal government
The potentially revitalized industrial states could drastically improve domestic industry and number of cheap and intermediary goods and the high income states could benefit from buying and turning the goods around into more valuable and luxury goods
What are your thoughts? On minimum wage? On autonomizing the states in other ways? On ways to stimulate the national economy on such a vast country?
States can already set their own minimum wage, just not below the federal minimum wage of 7.25.
Matthew Thomas
>minimum wage >doesn't provide the minimum for the bare necessities of life Really vulcanizes my vagina.
Jeremiah Miller
I wonder how the US will cope with the increasing use of automation in the economy. Some jobs are more difficult to automate than others, but how long will the trend of automation continue before joblessness due to automation reaches a point in which the government is forced to act. Will they simply tax it to prevent the shift in the workforce for as long as possible? Will they introduce a living wage? Will the oligarchical mess we and our predessesors made simply collapse in itself?
Juan Long
Yes but there is a federal minimum wage as well, meaning no one can go below that
Lincoln Diaz
Did you just stop reading at the first clause of that sentence?
Jace Reed
All great societies are built on some form of slavery, look at Egypt, India, China, Britain, US, Etc
MW workers are essentially slaves
Benjamin Hall
yes, my bad
but the point still stands that they cant go lower than that
Adam Gray
At least slaves had room and board. Sometimes even medical if they were valuable enough!
Hudson Ward
Well what about all the inmates workers in the prison system that work for literal pennies?
Luis Ramirez
States already have some control for their wages and they are basically where their citizens want them to be. So whatever change would happen under those circumstances would be negligible.
The minimum wage does provide for the bare necessities of life. Key word: life. Not lives. Don't try to feed a family of 4 on one minimum wage and you're fine.
>how long will the trend of automation continue before joblessness due to automation reaches a point in which the government is forced to act You're saying this as if it's certainly going to happen. New industries pop up all the time which has prevented this from happening all these years. Also, this is entirely unrelated to the thread.
Thomas Edwards
That doesn't change the fact that there is federal minimum wage so states can't set their rate any lower than that.
Owen Collins
Who cares? Every society penalized their scum. Soviets had the gulags. Romans had the rock quarries.
Christian Williams
A bad idea seeing how even medium sized local businesses would be able to bully states into maintaining a low minimum wage.
It also shafts over people unfortunate enough to be born in a state will a low minimum wage and who cannot earn enough to live off of.
Robert Bell
And US has a huge prison-industrial complex that lobbies the government for high incarceration rates.
Benjamin Thomas
No I mean like...if MW workers are the 'slaves' what does that make the inmate workers who are put to labor for like 15 cents an hour?
Daniel Morris
>cannot earn enough to live off of. literally never happens
Brandon Robinson
Untouchables.
Owen Perez
>An estimated 12.7 percent (15.8 million) of American households were food insecure at least some time during the year in 2015, meaning they lacked access to enough food for an active, healthy life for all household members. That is down from 14.0 percent in 2014. The prevalence of very low food security declined to 5.0 percent from 5.6 percent in 2014. Both declines are statistically significant. ers.usda.gov/publications/pub-details/?pubid=79760
Not being able to afford basic needs does indeed happen.
Thomas Lewis
That is horrific. The US is such a shithole nation.
Aaron Harris
I believe that the federal branch should enact each state to assess their own needs and create a MW without the Federal Gov't actually setting one. It is just as you say, some states have lower quality (if that's the right word) of living and this creates disparity.
For instance, CA is raising MW to $15 which is great for people living in places like SF where the MW there is like $13. You won't see a dramatic shift. However, places like Rocklin will have to see dramatic price increases to meet MW demands. This is why CA is rolling out MW over a long time span. It is why I don't believe in Federal MW.
Anthony Harris
The very low iq members of our society spend all their dollary doos at McDonald's every day instead of having the sense to buy rice and beans and chicken gibletsin bulk. You can only help them so much.
Sebastian Young
Nothing in that post proves me wrong. You claimed they were not able to live off the wage. All that link does is say they don't get a certain level of nutrition. Food insecurity is such a bullshit term because it makes it seem like a large chunk of the US is literally starving to death.
>Not being able to afford basic needs does indeed happen. Only if you define "need" really really loosely. A true "basic need" is what someone needs to survive, and guess what? All of those people who are "food insecure" are able to survive.
Thomas Perez
>All of those people who are "food insecure" are able to survive. I should have clarified. I meant they are able to survive if they have a wage.
Leo Martin
Once minimum wage is set, you can't really go back. Companies would never lower their prices and inflation will always exist in a growing economy.
Chase Ramirez
>All that link does is say they don't get a certain level of nutrition. As in the level of nutrition the UN says you need in order to be healthy >Food insecurity is such a bullshit term because it makes it seem like a large chunk of the US is literally starving to death. Idk how anyone would equate food insecurity with widespread starvation.
If your end goal is just survival we may as well reintroduce serfdom to gain maximum profits.
Gabriel Diaz
Yeah its a nice "liveable wage" until your car breaks down, or your roommate moves out, or you decide you want to save some money, or when you have to go to the hospital, or when your condom breaks, or when you need legal council, or when you want to break out of the cycle that is your shitty life.
David Ross
>As in the level of nutrition the UN says you need in order to be healthy which has nothing to do with your claim of what is needed in order to live >Idk how anyone would equate food insecurity with widespread starvation. yeah it's cute that you're playing the "interpret this post literally and pretend not to understand the point they were making" game but come on. I was saying that food insecurity makes it seem like there is a bigger problem than there actually is. Some evidence for this is how you used food insecurity statistics to "support" your claim that people are not able to live off current wages.
>If your end goal is just survival we may as well reintroduce serfdom to gain maximum profits. no idea where you got that from but everything I said was about how everyone can already live off wages because you said some people can't.
>It's another people can't live when x happens episode show me the numbers or shut up
Ethan Gonzalez
This is a semantic game. If by live you mean not die of starvation than yes you're correct. But a living wage is commonly understood as being enough to cover the basic resources/services needed to live a healthy life.
Carson Martin
>But a living wage is commonly understood as being enough to cover the basic resources/services needed to live a healthy life. If by "commonly understood" you mean a definition propagated by the democratic party to further their agenda then yes you're correct. However, it's a purposely ambiguous term because what is considered a "basic resource/service" can be changed on a whim so that the definition can continue to be used to further the democratic party agenda. So yeah I'm not using that horrible politically charged term. Call it a semantic game if you want.
show you the numbers? you've displayed no numbers or data whatsoever. You're delusional if you think the argument isn't valid for someone working for 7.25 an hour
Joseph Gutierrez
You're the one assuming that people die if such an event occurs. Provide some support for that.
Kevin Ortiz
makes you think
Kayden Lee
>It's another liberal media is at it again episode show me your evidence or shut the fuck up faggot
Elijah Gutierrez
Are you having a stroke? That post made no mention of the liberal media.
Grayson Brooks
thats not the issue dumbass homeless people are alive so I guess companies shouldn't have to pay you a wage good enough for housing do they? or really even a full diet, I mean, starving people don't always die do they? stop moving the goalposts and maybe I'll hold your hand and show you some "numbers"
Mason Adams
how is the democratic party supposed to propagate its liberal propaganda without the liberal media? Are you having a stoke? I'm not the one who thinks our society works like it did in the middle ages
Anthony Cruz
A more humanities related question:
Is it moral for a third party to forcibly intervene in a transaction, deal or contract on behalf of one party? Even if the intervention means the deal cannot go forward and both parties lose out?
Tyler Taylor
I forgot to mention: consensually
Ian Reed
Unless you give a concrete example there's nothing to discuss. This question is heavily context specific.
Nathan Allen
I haven't moved the goalpost in this discussion at all. For this entire time I've stated that the minimum wage is a living wage in the sense that is allows people to live. You responded to that claiming that people on minimum wages die when x happens to them. I asked for some support and you have failed to provide any. Now you are changing your claim from "people on a minimum wage die when x happens" to "people can survive without a minimum wage".
You're reading way too into what I was trying to say to try to somehow find a connection to the media. I just meant that it's a politically charged term that has been redefined by democrats and democrats use that definition as a means to achieve their goals. It's like how communists use the terms alienation/exploitation or how republicans use the term pro-life and invoke god.
Elijah Hall
>Now you are changing your claim I should clarify. I don't mean that your mind changed. I just mean that you are changing topics without supporting your first claim at all.
Daniel Gutierrez
>The US is such a shithole nation Ahw, don't say that. It's on par with all the other 3rd world countries.
