Judaism, as from I understand it, is an interesting culture focused on education and the "here and now". If Judaism was evangelizing in the same way Christianity and Islam are, and managed to convert Europe into it over the course of history, would the world be in a much better state than it is now with an educated and cultured population?
Judaism and it's spread
Josiah Myers
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Liam Torres
>would the world be in a much better state than it is now
As a Jew, no.
Having a billion Jews is a scary thing, there are too many fucked up things in the Torah that gets ignored. It would only be time before an ISIS type group popped up who wanted to kill all the Amalekites or something.
Owen Gray
Jew by blood here, agnostic though.
Torah is full of both extremely beautiful and quite ugly things. I could see that Jewish worship of education plays a good role in development of Europe. But there is quite a lot of things in the Torah that can be explained as calls to violence and fanaticism.
Personally, I would hate to see Judaism as large religion. It is a faith of Jews, it is our culutural foundation.
Caleb Sanders
Some Jews evangelise noahidism but outright proselytizing Judaism to gentiles would never work
Blake Murphy
We don't care about converting non-Jews because it does not make a difference whether they're Jewish or not. If they are righteous they can still go to Heaven so it doesn't have the same incentive to convert that Islam and Christianity have. Jews also think of themselves as having a unique responsibility that non-Jews don't have that makes converting undesirable. That's why proselytes are viewed with more respect because they voluntarily chose the burden that God has placed on the Jewish peoples' shoulders.
Jose Bennett
We don't care about converting non-Jews because it does not make a difference whether they're Jewish or not. If they are righteous they can still go to Heaven so it doesn't have the same incentive to convert that Islam and Christianity have.
I wasn't talking about heaven. I was talking about culture, Jewish culture is completely centered around education.
also, enlighten me, what is this burden? How do you think Israel comes to play in the larger scheme of things?
Jack Gomez
>It would only be time before an ISIS type group popped up who wanted to kill all the Amalekites or something
when do we finally get a purge of the southern israeli bedouins?
Thomas Perry
>It would only be time before an ISIS type group popped up who wanted to kill all the Amalekites or something.
Considering how fast Haredi Jews are breeding, we will probably get a Jewish ISIS in several decades. I think by the second half of this century, Israel will become a Saudi Arabia-tier theocracy.
Oliver Gutierrez
I'm just saying that it's like asking what if Armenians tried to convert non-Armenians to Armenian.
1. it would never happen because Jews don't care about saving non-Jews
2. the Jews are a nation that share a common religion
Also, in terms of culture, Jewish culture is basically a consequence of Protestant culture. Assimilation was much more common than you think 500 years ago. Jews in Catholic and Muslim countries are few but very different from Ashkenazi Jews.
As for as the responsibility Jews have, it's mostly related to fulfilling G-d's commandments.
Justin Gray
Haredi Jews don't believe Israel should exist.
William Peterson
Implying Israel will survive Palestinian demographics
Zachary Williams
>People believe this
It's actually the opposite. Think of it this way. The Jews in metropolitan areas of Israel have a birth rate of 2 children or so. The Jews in the West Bank have a birth rate of 5-6. The Arabs in the West Bank have a birth rate of 3. The Jews birth rate is rising while the Palestinians are rapidly declining. This is why there's almost a million settlers, they will be 40% of the West Bank by 2050
Alexander Flores
Some of them do, they just don't consider Israel to be a Jewish state due to its semi-secular character
Wyatt Myers
it's entirely secular and no, haredi jews believe that israel should not be a nation as long as the messiah is not around.
Luke Torres
>it's entirely secular
Top kek, you clearly know nothing about Israel.
Carter Wright
>it's entirely secular
Maybe Tel Aviv, but step foot into the settlements and you're dealing with some people who want to secede from Israel to create a halachic state which is like Jewish sharia, stoning to death for adultery and all that.
Julian Collins
How do religious jews justify the creation of israel though?
Because I thought one of the main points of the bible was that the jews were supposed to be scattered until the messiah comes, does nationalism just come first for religious jews?
Josiah Miller
No, that's not in the Bible, and books like Ezra and Nechemiah are about a Persoan era reconstruction and resettlement of Israel.
The "prohibition" comes from the Gemara, that a trio of Rabbis vowed not to return to Israel in force until the Messiah came. Haredi and their ilk view that as binding on Jews generally, but you can easily argue its only binding on those guys and their immediate followers.
Thomas Morales
>How do religious jews justify the creation of israel though?
Because it's a secular state. That's quite literally the only reason. You also need to understand that they don't think the Messiah will be "supernatural." The Messiah is supposed to gather the scattered Israelites and reinstall Jewish law, and create the third temple. Whoever creates the 3rd temple will be labeled a Messiah. Cyrus the Great, who wasn't even a Hebrew was considered a Messiah for letting the Jews create the 2nd temple.
Jack Nelson
you probably know more about that than me but Israel as a state itself is secular. If Arabs or Haredi Jews ever become a majority and vote for their version of sharia or halakh or whatever then Israel will no longer be secular. As of now, however, it is secular.
Easton Gray
Not all Haredi Jews denounce Israel, senpai. It's only one group of Haredim known as "Neuterei Karta". Those are the ones that all the Fakestinian propaganda use.
Henry Campbell
a proselytising religion, and mass conversions to Judaism occurred among the Khazars in the Caucasus, Berber tribes in North Africa, Greco-Romans throughout the Mediterrenean and in the Himyarite Kingdom of the Arabian Peninsula and elsewhere
>sephardic jews are berber/spanish converts
Medieval Arab writers ascribed the ancestry of the Berbers to *Goliath the Philistine and maintained their Canaanite origin. The Phoenician colonization of Africa, the long Carthaginian domination, and the survival of Punic, a language closely related to Hebrew, supported these legends which spread among the Berbers themselves. Similar tales are found in the writings of Greek and Latin authors and in the Talmud which spread the legend that the Canaanites immigrated of their own free will to North Africa. It is said that the survivors of the Jewish revolt in *Cyrenaica (115–116 C.E.) found refuge among the Berbers of Western *Libya . Scholars have frequently claimed that the Jews' desire to proselytize found a favorable atmosphere among the Berbers from the first to the seventh centuries. African Christianity, whose early converts were Jews, clashed with Jewish proselytism. Archaeological discoveries, epigraphs, and writings of the Christian scholars Tertullian and St. Augustine, indignant at the growing Berber conversions to Judaism, attest to these facts. The persecutions by the Byzantines forced Jews to settle among the Berbers in the mountain and desert regions. Ibn Khaldun confirmed the existence of a large number of proselyte Berbers at the time of the Arab conquest of Africa.
Isaiah Hill
Jews from both the Islamic world and Byzantium are known to have migrated to Khazaria during periods of persecution under Heraclius, Justinian II, Leo III, and Romanus Lakapēnos.[191][192] For Simon Schama, Jewish communities from the Balkans and the Bosphoran Crimea, especially from Panticapaeum began migrating to the more hospitable climate of pagan Khazaria in the wake of these persecutions, and were joined there by Jewish refugees from Armenia. The Geniza fragments, he argues, make it clear the Judaising reforms sent roots down into the whole of the population.[193] The pattern is one of an elite conversion preceding large-scale adoption of the new religion by the general population, which often resisted the imposition.[173] One important condition for mass conversion was a settled urban state, where churches, synagogues or mosques provided a focus for religion, as opposed to the free nomadic lifestyle of life on the open steppes.[194] A tradition of the Iranian Judeo-Tats claims that their ancestors were responsible for the Khazar conversion.
Nathan Price
>le modern jews are khazars meme
Kevin Cox
not an argument.
also, before posting on anti-khazar topics, please provide your full ancestry so that your bias be exposed
Zachary Williams
...
Blake Gomez
>Israel as a state itself is secular
Yeah, this is right. I just meant because of the population time bomb it's going in the other direction.