Tell me about Zoroastrianism Veeky Forums

Is there any direct evidence for the existence of Zoroaster as a person?

Except Zoroastrianism predates Judaism by almost 1000 years.

People unclear on what inb4 means.

Zarathustra, also spelled Zarathushtra, Greek Zoroaster (born traditionally c. 628 bce, possibly Rhages, Iran—died c. 551 bce), Iranian religious reformer and prophet, traditionally regarded as the founder of Zoroastrianism.

britannica.com/biography/Zarathustra

It's remarkable that it has survived to the present day, it's a treasure from classical antiquity.

Those dates are retarded. The claim Zoroaster lived around the late 7th century is based off hearsay of Darius the Great claiming his father and grandfather sheltered and took care of Zoroaster, which is physically impossible. One becaues Darius' family of kinglets (low level kings and high ranking nobles) come from the same area as the rest of the Achaemenids, in Persia. Zoroaster was born in Central Asia and lived there, on top of that we have a nearly 3300 goat-skin parchment with parts of the Gathas being that old with carbon-dating.

The bullshit your proposing is based off some French monk who dated him off Darius' inscription.

*3300 year old goat-skin

>Many scholars like Mary Boyce (1700–1000 BCE) used linguistic and socio-cultural evidence to place Zoroaster between 1500 and 1000 BCE (or 1200 and 900 BCE).The basis of this theory is primarily proposed on linguistic similarities between the Old Avestan language of the Zoroastrian Gathas and the Sanskrit of the Rigveda (c. 1700–1100 BCE), a collection of early Vedic hymns. Both texts are considered to have a common archaic Indo-Iranian origin. The Gathas pictures an ancient Stone-Bronze Age bipartite society of warrior-herdsmen and priests (compared to Bronze tripartite society; some consider it depicts the Yaz culture, and thus it is implausible that the Gathas and Rigveda could have been composed more than a few centuries apart. These scholars suggest that Zoroaster lived in an isolated tribe or composed the Gathas before the 1200–1000 BCE migration by the Iranians from the steppe to the Iranian Plateau

700/600 BC my ass.

Yeah this is old news and outdated as fuck. Zoroaster was already long dead even before Cyrus the Great's grandfather inherited the throne of the Median Empire. On top of that, Avestan was already a dead language largely only used by the Zoroastrian priesthood, there is no way in hell that Zoroastrianism was only a century or so old in establishment by the time they made contact with the Jews in Babylon.

Zoroastrianism is really old.

>linguistic
kek

It would be funny if you knew how stupid dating people from linguistics studies was.

From your bible, aka wiki

Some later pseudo-historical sources (the Bundahishn, "258 years before Alexander") place Zoroaster in the 6th century BC,[30] which coincided with the accounts by Ammianus Marcellinus from 4th century CE. The traditional Zoroastrian date originates in the period immediately following Alexander the Great's conquest of the Achaemenid Empire in 330 BC.[18] The Seleucid rulers who gained power following Alexander's death instituted an "Age of Alexander" as the new calendrical epoch. This did not appeal to the Zoroastrian priesthood who then attempted to establish an "Age of Zoroaster". To do so, they needed to establish when Zoroaster had lived, which they accomplished by (erroneous, some even identified Cyrus with Vishtaspa[31]) counting back the length of successive generations, until they concluded that Zoroaster must have lived "258 years before Alexander".[3][32] This estimate then re-appeared in the 9th- to 12th-century Arabic and Pahlavi texts of Zoroastrian tradition,[c] like the 10th century Al-Masudi who cited a prophecy from a lost Avestan book in which Zoroaster foretold the empire's destruction in three hundred years, but the religion would last for a thousand years.

Judaism is older.

>pseudo-historical sources
>pseudo-historical
>pseudo

Double kek at using this.

Nah, it isn't.

It would be even double so dumb to try and attribute a man who spoke a dead language that wasn't used by anyone outside of the Magi and Zoroastrian priests that has been largely extinct even back then for 500 to 800+ years as trying to justify Zoroastrianism only existing since the 7th century BC.

Zoroastianism was already a thing at the time of Andronovo and BMAC (Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex) which mean at the late third millenium BC

It's what you get when you mix Hinduism and Judaism

Regardless, its retarded either way for anyone to claim Zoroaster or Zoroastrianism arose only in the late 700s/early 600 BC period. Its definitely older then that either way.

>tfw no Zoroastrian Iran

Iran has more chance of turning Christian then it does Zoroastrian again. In fact there are more Christian converts in Iran then Zoroastrian by a huge margin.

Based on, again, nothing.

How did the Jews get influenced by Zoroastrianism, again?

Because with the proper timeline, it's clear that Zoroaster was in the right place at the right time to read the Jewish scriptures while they were in captivity, and believe in them.

So there isn't evidence then, or? You didn't answer my question at all.

Show me proof, faggot.

though the evidence from the Gathas and other Zoroastrian material comes from the 10th century AD, largely the material is scant on whether it was a real influence of Israelite belief during the time of the exile. In actual fact several scholars have questioned this influence of Zoroastrian eschatology on Israelite theology. John Day a distinguished scholar of Old Testament studies rejects this notion not due to the dating but rather to the conception of eschatology from Ugarit resemble more similarly to Israelite theology. Two it is noticeable that resurrection is found in the Deuteronomist text of 1 Samuel 2:6 which is likely pre-exilic in origin. Thirdly the origins of Zoroastrianism is disputed as some classify it as an very ancient religion (c.3000BC) others around 800-600BC. Albert De Jong an expert of Zoroastrian studies has noticed that Zoroastrian people used oral tradition that is passed from Father to Son and was largely secluded from other foreigners as fear of influence or dilution of beliefs.

Judaism is hugely influenced by Zoroastrianism. For many centuries, the heart of Jewish culture was in Baghdad. Jews in Babylon/Persia -- had a stable lifestyle under Sassanid protection, free to worship and contribute to the greater society without much fear of persecution.

The Talmud was assembled under Sassanid assent. Jews in Babylon/Persia were impressed by the legal code of the Persians, and wanted their own laws to apply to Jews everywhere. The Talmud incorporated elements of the Zoroastrianism, Babylonian tradition, and Sassanid jurisprudence. Extant legal records from pre-Islamic Spain look a lot like the Talmud, with extremely specific prohibitions and regulations.

Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism and adopted angelology and demonology, as well as the doctrine of the resurrection, and eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception

infact Kabala is based on Zoroastrian angelology/demonology

persiandna.com/angels.htm
guideangel.com/angels.htm

It's like Judaism but for hipsters because Veeky Forums seems obsessed with it even though you can't join it.

many anthropologists make no distinction between pre hindu and pre zoroastrian religions, but instead consider them a single spectrum of beliefs.

The religious beliefs of the Scythians was a type of Pre-Zoroastrian Iranian religion and differed from the post-Zoroastrian Iranian thoughts.[71] Foremost in the Scythian pantheon stood Tabiti, who was later replaced by Atar, the fire-pantheon of Iranian tribes, and Agni, the fire deity of Indo-Aryans.[71] The Scythian belief was a more archaic stage than the Zoroastrian and Hindu systems.

It's interesting to note that both Zoroastrianism and the Rig Veda both make reference to 'Asuras' and 'Daevas'.

In Hinduism, the devas are seen as good, while in Zoroastrianism they are explicitly referred to as Gods to be rejected.

And in Germanic polytheism the Aesir and Desir

Is it true they fucked their sisters?

Gotta keep the bloodline pure.

>Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism and adopted angelology and demonology, as well as the doctrine of the resurrection, and eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception
>no scholarly source just some random pages without no citations
>actually believes that angel didn't exist until the exile though pre-exilic material shows this
>using the Kabala though it is anachronistic to Israelite theology
>not disputing sources that are contrary to this claim
is that the best you've got?

>stop samefagging
>stop trolling
>get out of the internet
>move into a library
>read actual books
>???
>unjew yourself

>reading scholarly books is unjewing yourself

thanks, so Trypillian were the source of PIE and PIE was the source of Zoroastrianism

these books will save you from further embarrassment, dont return to the internet without them

Esotericism and the Academy: Rejected Knowledge in Western Culture, Wouter J. Hanegraaff
Living Zoroastrianism, Philip G. Kreyenbroek
Kabbalah, Magic and the Great Work of Self-Transformation, Lyam Thomas Christopher
Kabbalah and Modernity: Interpretations, Transformations, Adaptations, Boʿaz Hus
The Kabbalah & Magic of Angels, Migene González-Wippler
The Kabbalah: The Religious Philosophy of the Hebrews, Adolphe Franck
Kabbalah: A Guide for the Perplexed, Pinchas Giller

>here are a list of books irrelevant to your post
see you said
>Judaism is hugely influenced by Zoroastrianism. For many centuries, the heart of Jewish culture was in Baghdad. Jews in Babylon/Persia -- had a stable lifestyle under Sassanid protection, free to worship and contribute to the greater society without much fear of persecution.
Yet your vague description doesn't address what I said here
I am addressing this part of your assertion >Judaism is hugely influenced by Zoroastrianism. I don't care about post-70AD. I'm talking about previously before that, before the Talmud, before the Kabbalah, before any of that. I'm talking about pre-exilic, exilic and post-exilic material before the coming of Christ. Where does Israelite theology and Judaism (both are different) demonstrate influence?

>classical antiquity

Its way older

thats why talmud is babylonian revisionism kabala is babylonian numerology/demonology

>Zoroaster was alive between 1300-1000 BC based off linguistic evidence, Gathas scriptures, and other writings derived from his and his followers pre-dating the Achaemenids by nearly a millennia as well as any contact with Jews
>Niggas STILL claiming he was alive during the Jewish Exile and Cyrus/Darius's time during the rise of the Achaemenid Empire
Shit is mental gymnastics

the talmud and kabala were even before the sumerians. possibly even before trypillians. remember jericho is the first talmud city.

Bullshit. The Talmud wasn't even fully composed till the Sassanid era in the Near East.

look retard. evidence for this has been posted ( )

learn2read

I don't need to look at bullshit twice over to know its bullshit still.

you are just jealous that the talmud is older than persia, sumeria, and trypillians

Bullshit. Gas yourself kike

>Composed and compiled between 200AD and 500AD primarily
>older than Persia, Sumeria, and whatever Trypillians are
Okay, Finklestein.

Antisemite!

How the fuck does Talmud older than Sumeria?

It's basically shitier Islam

Dumb namefag

Zoroastrians believe in three main principles:
Think good.
Speak good.
Do good.

Zoroastrianism, at its core, is the only none meme religion in my opinion. It's about self improvement and then helping other to self improve.

I really wish it was the dominant religion of modern times. But alas, it wasn't designed to control people, so it has no use.

Zoroastrianism is a religion that stands for positivity and self actualization and self improvement, not self hate, being unworthy, ritual sacrifice and self flagellation like Abrahamic religions

>Abrahamic religion is based on ritual sacrifice and slaughter

Sikhs are from Zoroastrianism and are anti-abrahamic

pain and sacrifice the basis of abrahamic religion

and Sikhs are morally advanced to reject and strictly prohibit sacrifice/torture, which is seen in their prohibition of ritualistic animal slaughter kosher/halal

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibitions_in_Sikhism

Sikhs prohibit sacrifice!!

There are a number of religious prohibitions in Sikhism, including prohibition on the sacrifice of creatures

Sikhs are not allowed to even eat the kosher/halal meat since it is derived of malevolent (pain) sacrifice

Jhatka is meat from an animal that has been intended to be killed instantaneously, such as by a single strike of a sword or axe to sever the head, as opposed to "ritualistic" slaughter (kutha) in the kosher method (shechita) and halal method (dhabihah).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jhatka

forbidden Kuttha meat is defined as "meat of animal or fowl slaughtered slowly or slaughter which sanctifies meat", the halal and kosher methods being examples

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kutha_meat

> Sikhs are the descendants of the Vedic culture

more specifically Zoroastrian culture:
good deeds, good thoughts, good actions

all Vedic culture derives from Zoroastrian

go read evidence posted in the thread or the talmud

Is it true that X fucked their sisters?
Yes for literally every group ever

>all Vedic culture derives from Zoroastrian

I disagree. They came from the same source, proto-indo-iranian religion and branched out. One doesn't derive from the other.

What about a group of homosexual men

>not formulating your question in the form of an algebraic equation

wtf user?

>And in Germanic polytheism the Aesir and Desir
You know what's odd there is a story in the Nordic pagan myths of a battle above the well of magic for mead between the gods and demons. Same exact story is played out in the Hindu myth of the creation of the elixir of immortality, Amrita over the universal ocean. Both have a magical head that is referred to by the allfather on certain matters and in Hinduism the head rahu is consulted by the father of asuras.

I think there was some sort of civil war that separated the people's into two separate and distinct groups before or during the vast indoaryan or indo iranian migration.

>some sort of civil war that separated the people's into two separate and distinct groups before or during the vast indoaryan or indo iranian migration

nordics are not of indo-aryan/iranians, so it had to be sometime pre-aryan and pre-germanic, closer to PIE

>Trypillian were the source of PIE
Maybe
>PIE was the source of Zoroastrianism
No. Not directly anyway. Zarathustranism is a late derivation of Aryan(specifically Aryan, not the wider IE spectrum) paganism. Aryan paganism is itself a derivation of PIE religion.

>civil war that separated the people's
No need for such a theory, expansion and migration already accounts for these religious"cognates"

and yes I know I am mis-using "cognate" but I couldn't think of a more appropriate word

Zoroastrianism is Judaism + pagan fire god.

>low-IQ peasants trying to butt in
ooga booga

Veeky Forums needs IDs

weak b8

wonder if Yamna religion was related to Trypillian religion

the talmud is older than sumeria!

But I do think so because the protagonists in each others tales is the exact opposite, as in the Aesir are the good guys in the nords and Asuras are the bad guys for the Hindus.

No it isn't.

yeah so fire worship

>Trypillian
They were G2 and V13 - farmers. Nothing PIE in them.

Any thoughts on a connection between zorastrian fire keeping traditions and the various island tribes ember keeping traditions? They seem way too similar to not be connected.

Has to do with the importance of fire for survival. Along with the sun, water, earth air fire is extremely important.

No, that would be Akhnaten.

There are more Jews in Iran than there are Christians kek

>No, that would be Akhnaten.
still debated on what Akhnaten religion really was, was it monotheistic or was it a form of monism/deistic religious cult? It's not entirely known since Atenism was also ultra-esoteric and was largely focusing on Pharaoh than on the people of Egypt. The nature of Aten has no personification and is characterized as the sun with hands that bring gifts down.

Not really. Most Iranian "Christians" keep their conversion in secret otherwise its capital punishment and usually that either entails a holiday vacation at Evin (aka never returning) or some form of death penalty. So there's a reason why "Christian" Persians tend not to report themselves as converting from Islam.

Why would they convert to Christianity? If anything a religious theocracy would just make them agnostic or atheist, not going from one bullshit abrahamic religion to an even more bullshit one.
If they don't report it and keep it a secret then how would you even know?
Feel free to provide evidence or reputable statistics of these "conversions"

that bs has been debunked

lurkmoar

Let I(Hh) be homosexual brother
Let I(He) be heterosexual sister
Let I(Hu) be homosexual creepy uncle

Find a general solution or a counter-example for all Hh that show that Hh always drifts towards Hu

It was once, under the Achaemenid empire, the most populous religion in the world, and remains probably the religion to have claimed the largest percentage of total world population at one time.

That line of thinking only occurs among Western millennial. If theocracies turned people atheist that would have happened a lot earlier (protestantism doesn't count).

Not to mention various massacres and mass migration.

Oh vey it's annudah shoah!

some of the religious text praising Akhnaten where pretty much directly copy pasted into Isrealite writings.

Then again a abrahamic faiths have so much traction largely because it's so self destructive to the individual

The main tenet of these three faiths is god knows better and that you are corrupted

>some of the religious text praising Akhnaten where pretty much directly copy pasted into Isrealite writings.
give me an example and show me how it is copy and pasted, I know what people are talking about but you need to put the effort in yourself if you want to prove me wrong