Germany and Italian anons, I have a genuine question for you all. What was the experience of your grandparents and great grandparents during the rise of Hitler and Mussolini?
How did people experience, deal with the fear of rising fascism?
And if they had realized the end game, how do you think most people could have or should have responded to the rise of fascism in their countries?
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My ancestor was a secret agent who killed gooks! As national as they come.
German here.
My great-great-grandpa fought in WWI, came back a bit shellshocked and later supported the NSDAP and was a member of the SA. He has cut his veins and hanged himself 1938, even before WWII started, probably because of his WWI experiences. I still have some photos and the old family book with all the Aryan certificates, family register, rules and all kind of that stuff.
My great-grandparents supported Hitler aswell. To them he was a great leader, true German, supporter of German workers and someone who restores order in Germany. My great-grandma always told me that it was more civilizised when Hitler was in charge. Everyone had work and you could leave your bike somewhere outside for days and nobody would steal it. When it comes to Jews she said that they were strange people who did dishonest work like going from door to door and sell random shit in an annoying kind of way. This is all I have heard about jews. But I guess back then, my great-grandparents were not aware of the actual genocide that happened.
My grandparents were very young in the nazi era and they are not really political. All they remember about this time is war, bombs, bunkers and hunger. My grandpa was a bit traumatisied because he has seen corpses on the streets and he also hated Americans and Brits, because they burned the food reserves of the city in front of his eyes, while he was starving.
One of my grandfathers is from Spain. He came here in the 60's and married a German woman (my grandma). He is a full fascist and Franco supporter. When he speaks about Hitler, he refers to "Unser Führer" (our Führer) and he claims to be able to distinguish between different Afro-Asian ethnicities depending on their skull shape and nose and he hates non-Europeans in general.
Italian here. My grandparents liked fascism and Mussolini. He was a modernizer.
your family is based, friends
yours too
>tfw fascism is going to come back and it'll be beautiful
>giving up your personal rights and individualism because you want the trains to run on time and you're scared of brown men
It won't because Hitler had to be an autist and destroy Europe and now fascism isn't attractive anymore
hallo redditische
nah, it'll come back. indigenous europeans will have to choose fascism or die out
> indigenous europeans will have to choose fascism or die out
Interesting, since fascism is what caused the deaths of 30 million Europeans
wow nice argument
put reddit into the name
damn
jokes aside, you turn to fascism because you seek a national identity because you lack the self confidence to form one of your own. pretty sad.
ethnic/racial situation is different in Europe now. even near the end of WW2 the NSDAP began to realize pan-European racial nationalism is the way to go. Himmler more or less declared they needed to unite all the ethnic groups of the white race (Slavs explicitly included), for an apocalyptic racial holy war against the East Asian yellow peril.
modern fascists are very supportive of each other and pan-europeanism on a racial basis, there wouldn't be the deaths of Europeans other than communist race traitors?
t.reddit
see? your ideology flops to actual arguments
call me reddit all you like, at least I won't be as pathetic as you.
t. reddit
> even near the end of WW2 the NSDAP began to realize pan-European racial nationalism is the way to go. Himmler more or less declared they needed to unite all the ethnic groups of the white race (Slavs explicitly included), for an apocalyptic racial holy war against the East Asian yellow peril.
Proofs?
A little late after you've genocided half of Eastern Europe only to get your ass kicked and say "hehe maybe we underestimated you filthy slavs, let's be friends!"
>Slavs explicitly included
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.
>I'm going to disregard every historian and sources to suit my own beliefs
>Nazis didn't hate Slavs
...
"To combine all those nations into a one big family is the most important task at present. It is natural in this process that the German nation, as the largest and strongest, must assume the leading role.
But this unification has to take place on the principle of EQUALITY... this family has to take on the mission to include all ROMAN nations, and then the SLAVIC nations, because THEY TOO, ARE OF THE WHITE RACE. It is only through unification of the White race that Western culture could be saved from the danger of the yellow race. At the present time, the Waffen-SS is leading in this respect because its organisation is based on equality. The Waffen-SS COMPRISES NOT ONLY GERMAN, ROMAN, AND SLAVIC BUT EVEN ISLAMIC UNITS... FIGHTING IN CLOSE TOGETHERNESS."
>my unsourced quote totally destroys all nazi doctrines
Latvian Legion (James Bender Publishing, 1986, pages 348-349.)
I had a greatgrandpa who fought for Italy then was captured in Egypt by the Brits and was imprisoned in India for ten years. Another one was shot in his arm by Nazis.
Nietzsche was basically a frustrated European pan-Nationalist and jaded traditionalist though.
>were the ones conquering brown men
>first
>having anything to do with fascism
kys tyrone
You're just projecting. Italians don't care about "muh individualism" in the political sense like Americans do and at the time were the ones conquering brown men.
>What is Libya, Eritrea and Somalia
Meant for
the reason you don't care about individualism is because you lack the confidence to seek it.
Italians care about individualism. Just not political individualism. There is a difference.
Are people born wicked, or do they have wickedness thrust upon them?
You will have no individualism under fascism. You will work, obey, be christian and have kids.
That's the meme stereotype but really not what it was like. desu it wasn't that different from anywhere else in the 1920s-40s.
>Christian
This is mainstream liberal tier. You're no doubt a redditor commie who is HORRIFIED by your straw man of fascism, while ignoring the reality of your gulag.
"If everyone was just like me, we wouldn't need a government directing us"
Italian here my grandfather died in the russian front, while his son was beaten to death by fascists during Matteotti's funeral. My grandmother was a single mother with 2 childs and a dead one during the fascist era. You couldn't work without the membership from the fascist syndicate, there was a day called the day of faith where you had to donate gold to the state so mussolini could finance the war in etiopia. It was really bad for anyone who didn't wanted mussolini and who wasn't really rich.
The Gestapo and OVRA arrested hundreds of thousands in just a decade. You can't pretend it was like anywhere else in Europe. In spain, republicans were used for forced slave labour, in Croatia, orthodox children were shot. This is ignoring the oppression of Jews also.
>hurr durr you don't like fascism you must be a stalinist
Confirmed redditor communist. You have no grounds for moralism, faggot. Go kill more people for their money.
Plus you guys should read about the italian national debt during the mussolini era.
This is your argument. Someone doesn't want your shitty militarist authoritarian police state? They must be a communist!
Face it, your ideology is shit and was always shit.
He's not wrong though. He was just saying Fascists forced people to be Christians. He didn't say Christians were all automatically fascists.
You are a communist (not a Stalinist!!!) who is attempting to moralize people over Fascists persecuting communists and other dissidents, just like Communists persecute those who oppose them. You have no basis to get your little ass burnt red over Fascists killing anybody, when Communism (You) is the most murderous ideology and morally vile entity on the planet.
NSDAP was secular, you moron. Italian Fascists too. The only Christian 'fascists' were Codreanu's Iron Guard and Dolfuss.
>christian
you mean pagan
>You are a communist
Says who?
>when communism is the most murderous ideology and morally vike entity on the planet
Makes sense you'd think that, after they killed 5 million Fashys.
>NSDAP was secular
en.m.wikipedia.org
Well, my Grandmother lived in Hannover(born 1941) and my Grandfather was from Slesia (born 1939), they were just like the rest of germany concerning Nazi's after the war. My Grandfather hates Russkies though, he witnessed the whole terror of 'em in 1945 when his family fled from Slesia.
Communism has killed tens of millions, far more than Fascism ever has. But it wasn't REEUL communism right, reddit?
>this is evidence the NSDAP was christian
lol. The NSDAP's elite were more or less all either pagans, deists or reformers who wanted to make shit up to warp Christianity into an ideologically compatible entity with Fascism, which it couldn't be as it was. Eventually the idea was to whittle it away to nothing so that a new Germanic religion of blood/paganism could breakthrough.
Why do redditor commies hate Christianity so much by trying to associate it with Fascism? Is it being butthurt over being told to go to church with their mommy and daddy?
oh boy lets play the blame game again even though Bomber Harris and LeMay and Stalin and Zhukov did the lion's share of the killing
>it's commies try to pretend mass-slaughtering multimillions of innocent people in china, russia, and everywhere else communism popped up is comparable to nazisms kill score
lol
Italian Facism and German national socialism both were anti-Christian you idiot. Mussolini begrudgingly signed the Lateran Treaty much to the dismay of many fascist intellectuals. Nazism was filled to the brim with neopagans, occultist and materialist.
>le youre a communist
if you had a real point you wouldn't just call me a communist every 5 minutes. Fascism killed more in the same timeframe, it's just that communism didn't destroy itself.
>le nazis were all atheists and pagans
Most were lutherans, it's just Himmler that was an active Pagan and Hitler that was a skeptic, but Hitler actively viewed the Catholic Church as necessary to maintain order.
>Why do redditor commies hate Christianity so much by trying to associate it with Fascism? Is it being butthurt over being told to go to church with their mommy and daddy?
I AM a Christian. You just repeatedly accusing me of being a communist only serves to hammer in the fact you're only argument is 'muh holodomor'
>if i keep calling him a communist maybe he'll turn into one
Which means they didn't outwardly profess christianity and make it state sanctioned.
LMAO
HOOOOLY SHIT
>hundreds of thousands out of millions
Even if that number is true, that's not outrageous. I doubt that number on the Italian side (of which I'm referring to) and need citations none the less. Also remember this was during the Great Depression and war so a lot of shit was going on. Most of those arrested probably deserved it. I'm sure comparable numbers exist in the USA who rounded up Italians, Germans and Japanese.
>spain, republicans were used for forced slave labou
Republicans were nasty pieces of shit who raped nuns and destroyed churches. They deserve worse than being used as slave labor
BOIIIIII
>im sure the us collected more
The difference is the US didn't put them in death camps
>le republicans were evil
'Republican' is a broad term referring to a huge coalition of left wing parties. Many were humanitarian. Read George Orwell's "Homage to Catalonia"
samefag
...
>Which means they didn't outwardly profess christianity and make it state sanctioned.
Which means you were wrong. Italian Fascism and German national socialism were not Christian movements nor did they force people to be Christian. Like the liberal and nationalist movements of the 18th-19th century, fascist had to balance between a largely Christian population and the power of organized churches with their own ideology that oftentimes conflicted with Christianity.
>Many were humanitarian.
Raping nuns and brutalizing the Spanish people is real """humanitarian""" and I couldn't care less about what some Anglo has to say about it.
>holodomor
>mao's great leap
>purges
Why are communists so shameless in trying to sweep these under the rug?
>Hitler catholic
Hitler actively subverted the Catholic Church at every corner. His party was massively anti Catholic, especially Rosenburg. Read Table Talks. The creation of the Positive Christianity movement was to take power away from the Catholic Church and other churches in Germany.
The NSDAP was not Christian. Its motives were racial, and its ethos was nationalism.
>gas lighting
Poor trolling lad, you ought to return to leftyreddit.
>I'll just broadly place an entire coalition under 1 banner to suit my political needs
This is like saying the entire Hungarian army was evil because there are accounts of them stealing food from starving peasants in Ukraine.
(You)
>Why are communists so shameless in trying to sweep these under the rug?
For the last fucking time, I'm not a communist.
>Hitler actively subverted the Catholic Church at every corner. His party was massively anti Catholic, especially Rosenburg. Read Table Talks. The creation of the Positive Christianity movement was to take power away from the Catholic Church and other churches in Germany.
He subverted it for greater control if Germany, but openly used the Reichschurch to control the populace through religion. He still saw the Catholic Church as necessary in Europe, but wanted total control of Germany.
>Poor trolling lad, you ought to return to leftyreddit.
I'm not even left wing. But it's easier to class your political opponents under 1 name, isn't it?
>I'll broadly put right-wing coalitions and fascism under one banner for my own political needs but nobody can do that to left-wing movements
Typical leftist who can't even see his own glaring hypocrisy.
Even if we were one person, would that make the point less valid?
The difference is that Nazi doctrine is specifically Anti Semitic and Anti Democratic.
My grandparents remember seeing some japanese troops march around their farm. That's about it.
>I am not a leftist despite signalling that I am one every post I make in this thread
always makes me think
>but openly used the Reichschurch to control the populace through religion.
he did not force anyone to be christian
>still trying to tie nazism with catholicism
just read table talks you ignorant retard
>all fascism is Nazism
>all conservative and traditionalist movements at the time were fascist
typical hypocritical leftist.
>phoneposter
it all makes sense
>but my revolutionary violent murdering socialist catalonian rapists are the real democratic option
*shoots everyone who disagrees with my ideological sphere*
>fear
Italy here
Everyone was cheering it, it's when the tide of war turned grim everyone was like:
>wtf, I love communism now!
>if you don't support authoritarian militarist police states, you're communist
lol okay
>he did not force anyone to be christian
He enforced Christian doctrine and morals. That's about as close as it gets
And I am not trying to tie the Vatican to the Nazis, I am simply stating Hitler valued the Catholic church for its role in maintaining order, but demanded total control of the populace in Germany
I'm sure your next post will call me a leftist redditor shill, because pol has diluted your brain, but I am afraid this fun discussion ends here as my train ride's over.
I'm simply referring to Nazism here. Italian Fascism was racist towards Balkan slavs also.
SI SI SI SI SI
>He enforced Christian doctrine and morals.
No he didn't you idiot. lol wtf are you even talking about?
>I'm simply referring to Nazism here.
And i'm simply referring to Spanish Republicans.
t.reddit
>redditor
it all makes sense