How did a couple of Berber tribes cross the Sahara and conquer southern Iberia?

Was Carthage a proto berber nation?

No, they were ruled by Phoenicians.

Damn a whole book! thanks user .
>They were racially tolerant and made racial equality with blacks.
thats actually fascinating, given that race wasn't a clear cut concept but at the same time it seems like Arabs would treat Berbers like shit

It is probably important to know that the Muslim rulers in Iberia had an Arabic culture and were of Arabic descent.

Interesting facts:

Almohad were the first to use the cannon and the gunpowder in Europe (Iberia) so they introduced

Almohad Emperor claimed to be the calif of the islamic sunni world, while the middle east was ruled by the fatimids of Cairo and Kutama berbers, and of course the famous Saladin who claimed that title.
Saladin when he was getting rekt asked for help, needing the almohad navy and 50,000 mens, so sending gifts, but he still refused to accept the almohad as Calif (using others titles) so he got nothing

overall which one of the two were overall more powerful and effective at their height

What sort of gun would this have been, fixed artillery or more similar to an arquebus?

I love Muslim historical revisionism! Death to the Crusaders!

>Muslim Maghrebi tribes had superiors military, science, architecture, culture etc. overall civilization at this time, tribe doesn't mean stone-age cavemens.

not necessarily true. that goat-fucking, illiterate and barbaric desert nomad stereotype comes from north africans

It entirely depends on how you define such a thing.

Well actually the 13th Maghreb was actually quit raciallized there's a whole books on the skin color, eye color, hair color of every Almoravid / Almohad ruler.
When a half black ruled the marinid dynasty (1331-1348), he was called the black sultan and most intellectuals of it time commented on his origins.
You can google "Roudh el-Kartas" and read his book of 1326.

will do. thanks user

That is less impressive than any cathedral

Well true, there always was a hatred between the nomadic sedentary population of north africa who always raided and looted cities until late 19th, it was the same since the roman periods (when Romans had to build extremly long walls to defend their southern borders from the saharian nomads)

Yuu can read this to get some answers. It's a complicated thing that can't be discussed in few words.
img15.hostingpics.net/pics/336346aza.png
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder_artillery_in_the_Middle_Ages#Muslim_and_Christian_Iberia

Osprey Men-At-Arms books also give a very detailed description of centuries of moorish military.

I'm not basing my judgment on academic citation and work and everything I say can be backed with historical work.

hard to tell, it's 200 years of military history, both had their great period and decline, both had their great battles and great defeats, great military euipment and strategies, both were also genocidal maniacs who could kills hundrends of thoudsands of people because they
Almoravid only had modern day morocco/mauritania tho in africa, because the hammadid destroyed their ass circa Tlemcen.
Battle of Sagrajas or Alarcos? What was the most impressive? hard to tell, really. Almohad crushed the hilali arabic invasion of the 12th in setif quit easily and made all arabs their little bitchs.
Almohad soldiers had more swag tho histoireislamique.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/edbgeasd-797x1024almohad-elite-warrior.jpg
histoireislamique.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/muwahid.jpg

Both also used a lot of blacks and white europeans, and middle eastern arab in their troops and mercenaries. You can see in the book I posted how much each race was paid and the conflicts
here's the famous battle of 1212 and the arabs/berbers/africans blacks/andalusian formations
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Orden_de_batalla_musulmán_en_las_Navas_de_Tolosa.jpg

Look at your map, Fes and Marrakech had populations over 100000, in fact the Almoravids founded Marrakech. Most of Andalusia joined the Almoravids willingly, favoring the military giant over local warlords for protection against the Christian Kingdoms and pointless infighting.

excellent sources. Im going to go with Almohads for being more impressive simply for lasting longer and Because of Yusuf Ibn Tafshin. Also Aesthetics.

more impressive than any cathedral at the time in spain (by the visigoths)

The Visigoths in Spain were done at the beginning of the VIII century and their cathedrals were transformed into mosques like the one in Cordoba.During the times of the Almoravids you had things like Santiago's cathedral which is way more impressive than that shitty ass building that you posted.Stop manipulating Abdul

>Most of Andalusia joined the Almoravids willingly
kek.This delusion.They asked for military help and they invaded all the taifas (there wasn't a centralized state you mongoloid).I hate ignorant neckbeards that spew false shit to make their larping delusions look reasonable

Not him but You'd have to be facetious or just have plain shit taste not to see how based Andalusian Islamic architecture is..

>Not him but You'd have to be facetious or just have plain shit taste not to see how based Andalusian Islamic architecture is..
>La Alhambra has anything to do with the Almoravids
Why are goatfuckers this fucking dumb? Please at least read the wiki article before you sperg out and make yourself look like a retard.There is no such thing as "Andalusian Islamic architecture".It is a loose term that you made up to hide your lack of knowledge from the subject.The Alhambra is Nazari architecture.It has nothing to do with the goatfuckers that collapsed in the XIII century that we are discussing

you sound very butthurt about something. saying goatfucker over and over again doesn't make you sound cool, its just makes you sound like a retard thats trying too hard to sound offensive.

And the Spaniards literally appropriated islamic mosques and palaces built by """goatfuckers""" because their own buildings were so shit. note how the only part of this otherwise beautiful minaret that sticks out is the shit that the Christians built on top of it when they turned it into a church

>And the Spaniards literally appropriated islamic mosques and palaces built by """goatfuckers""" because their own buildings were so shit. note how the only part of this otherwise beautiful minaret that sticks out is the shit that the Christians built on top of it when they turned it into a church
The same way that muslims did with Sinagoges and Visigothic buildings.
>because their own buildings were so shit
The north of Spain has way more cultural heritage than the south.In fact Nazari architecture was mostly planned by some christian architects that went to Granada under the orders of Peter the cruel
>otherwise beautiful minaret that sticks out is the shit that the Christians built on top of it when they turned it into a church
>Calling Seville's cathedral shit
Kek.It is a better building than anything you can find in the entire islamic world and the architects from the Sevillian cathedral worked in the design of la Alhambra.Please at least read the wiki articles before posting.You are making yourself look like a retard

>The north of Spain has way more cultural heritage than the south.
Nope. Just alone Sevilla+Granada fuck all over the north in terms of cultural heritage, add Cordoba and Cadiz and there isn't even a match.

the Catedral of Santiago wasn't even finished until the 12th century or so and you have to be a major dumbass to not appreciate the shapes and forms of Andalusian architecture

>the Catedral of Santiago wasn't even finished until the 12th
And the Almoravids arrived to Spain in 1086. What is even your point? Or are you a dumbass that believes that the caliphate of Cordoba was related to the Almoravids?

>Just alone Sevilla+Granada
Kek. Madrid alone has more cultural heritage than the 2 provinces combined.

>They asked for military help and they invaded all the taifas
that doesn't contradict anything I said

>there wasn't a centralized state you mongoloid
I never said there was.

>I believe 1+1=3
1+1=2 you mongoloid

>I hate ignorant neckbeards
u?

>spew false shit
Everything I said is fact. The taifas were mere warlords and other Andalusians, landowners, merchants, clergy, all thought they were a shit and preferred Almoravid hegemony for the protection and stability.

>larping delusions
I only LARP Abdul Omar, Andalusian adventurer and contemporary of El Cid, 1 or 2 times a month

it doesn't. I visited Spain exstensively, and northern and central Spain are utter shit. The exception is Toledo, because it was an important Roman center (Toletum) and it aged well becoming an important and artistic town. For the rest, Catalonia is somewhat historically interesting (Barcelona, Tarragona). But the region that really makes Spain unique, with its Moorish, Latin and Iberian influence, is Andalucia.
The most beautiful Spanish town are probably Sevilla, Cordoba and Granada.

Madrid is only a newcomer that didn't matter at all before the XVII century.

>Everything I said is fact. The taifas were mere warlords and other Andalusians, landowners, merchants, clergy, all thought they were a shit and preferred Almoravid hegemony for the protection and stability.
That is why the organized armies against the Almoravids and ask the king of Leon for his help?

>it doesn't. I visited Spain exstensively,
Your opinion as a clueless tourist is worthless pal. Unesco stimates that 60% of all of Spain's cultiral heritage is in the current Castile-Leon

>Unesco stimates that 60% of all of Spain's cultiral heritage is in the current Castile-Leon

Prove it. Apart from Toledo there is nothing worth seing in north and central Spain. I believe Oviedo has been added to UNESCO, although it is a very average medieval town. In Italy there are so many towns better than Oviedo that they don't even bother filing for the UNESCO protection.

Also, UNESCO heritage doesn't mean shit.

However, if you are Spanish, I really can't understand why you can't accept our compliments to your beautiful country. You'd only have to admit that the South is culturally and artistically much more interesting than the North and the Center.

ALLAHAU ACKBAR

>Prove it.
>In Castile and Leon is more than 60% of all the heritage - architectural, artistic, cultural, etc. - existing in Spain. What translates to: 8 World Heritage properties, [19] almost 1800 classified cultural heritage assets, 112 historic sites, 400 museums, more than 500 castles, of which 16 are considered of high historical value, [20] [21] [22] 12 cathedrals, 1 concatedral, [23] and the largest concentration of Romanesque art in the world. With 8 World Heritage properties, Castile and Leon is the region of the world with more cultural assets distinguished by the highest protection figure granted by Unesco, ahead of the Italian regions of Tuscany and Lombardy, both with 6 Goods. [24] [25]
Your opinion is worthless desu as you are a pleb

Jesus you are fucking dumb. Let me go through that list:

>Alcalà de Henares
>Cuenca
>Avila
>Salamanca
>Oviedo

kek. All these cities combined are not worth Sevilla alone in terms of artistic, architectural significance.

>Alcalà de Henares
>>Cuenca
>>Avila
>>Salamanca
>>Oviedo
Only 2 of those cities are in Castile Leon. Please stop posting you are making yourself look like a moron. Jesus you couldn't be dumber even if you tried harder.

It just depends you want to see, if you want moorish architecture go to south, if you prefer gothic, baroque cathedrals or palaces go to the center, and if you want to, well, see mountains and other green landscapes go to the north. It not depends on anyone to say what is better.

>However, if you are Spanish, I really can't understand why you can't accept our compliments to your beautiful country. You'd only have to admit that the South is culturally and artistically much more interesting than the North and the Center.
Top fucking kek. Not him, but come on this is stupid. Do you think an american dixie would be glad to be told "yankees are better than you"? Do you think a scot would be happy to hear "England is better than Scotland"? To you think a northen italian would be glad to hear "terroni are better than polentoni"? No they fucking wouldn't. You aren't complementing Spain, you're complementing a part of it while strongly denigrating the other. If he comes from the denigrated part, he's rightly going to be incensed at your comments.