Khalid ibn al-Walid

Wahhabism is fucking killing us, it should be purged from existence if we want the Middle East to return to peace

Arabization. The former great empires were able to continue being great despite Islam, but then it caught up to them.

Sort of like what happened during the Reformation era in Christianity

They lost the guidance of Persians who make them civilised in the first place
Now the leadership of Islam is held by the Saudis and they bringing down the whole Muslim world with them

>Conquered by ottoman empire which proceeded to block any science or development from the world coming to her territory so now we lag a few 100 years behind

Nice try, but Muslim territories outside Ottoman control stagnated too.

>muh stagnation
The term "stagnation" implies that if only certain factors had not been present the Islamic world would have followed the "normal course of development" that Europe did. The problem is that there is nothing "normal" about that course of development. No other region on Earth developed the way Europe did. Europe didn't develop normally, Europe deviated. The real question is why did Europe deviate and become such an abnormal civilization?

Because it had to in order to keep its place in the world.

Throughout human History, nobody has ever migrated en masse out of Europe into the Steppes, only the opposite. Consequently, Europe needed to develop measures in order to not be constantly swept over as it was done in the time of the Indo Europeans.

No, stagnation is absolutely fair. Syria and Egypt were the most advanced places in the Mediterranean when they were conquered by Arabs, hence why the Arabs themselves seemed so advanced (they weren't, the Syrians and Egyptians were). Likewise, Persia, which basically replaced most of Arab culture with its own.

Egypt became a stagnant backwater over the course of the middle ages.

Not nearly as hard.if it weren't for mohammed ali Pasha we would be some shithole like Congo or Chad

>became a stagnant backwater over the course of the middle ages.
what about the Fatimids

He beat Muhammad himself when he was a pagan. He was just an extraordinary general.

Only lasted 200 years

Well, their height was in the early middle ages.

>Only lasted 200 years
Are you actually trying to imply that was a short time?

How do we kill the cancer that is Israel?
Pic related is from Hilary Clinton's leaked emails.
America literally fucked over Syria to make sure Israel keeps hold of it's Nuclear Monopoly.

>Egypt became a stagnant backwater over the course of the middle ages

nigga Fustat and Damascus were one of the most culturally and economically significant centers well after 642 ad.

Get your "muh ayrrab genocided everything" retardation out of here

alas, unless someone invents a weapon to render nuclear weapons useless it is impossible without a miracle from Allah

In the meanwhile, I choose to believe that it is part of the punishment sent upon the Ar*bs for siding with Anglo kafirs against the Osmani khalifa

Shhhhhh he is autistic and may cry

True.we should have gotten them out with a peaceful way.no matter how horrible they were,the ottomans were the last stronghold of Islam in the world

I'm curious why do you(assuming you're arab) think the Ottomans were horrible though?

>when niggers attempt to trespass your land

>That pic.
This is why i hope Iran is successful in Building Nuclear Weapons. Once that happens every regional power in the Middle East (Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia) will go Nuclear. Israel will no longer be able to invade countries without having to fear retaliation, and their Greater Israel project will fail.

Egyptian here
Lots of famines,tons of corruption,withheld from education.by the time the french came we were no more than some ooga booga Congo tribes

>This is why i hope Iran is successful in Building Nuclear Weapons.
uh, where did you get this idea that they even want to build nuclear weapons? isn't that just propoganda?

>uh, where did you get this idea that they even want to build nuclear weapons? isn't that just propoganda?
I don't care if they want to or not, but if they do. Then i fully support that. Israel and America need to fuck off. Iran shouldn't trade their Nuclear capabilities for a piece of paper that says ''I won't invade you''

I see what you're saying, but I'm pretty sure nuclear weapons would be considered haram so it's unlikely they'll ever develop them.

Okay thats a fair assessment. I don't think you guys were African tribe tier but Mamluks with swords can't beat French rifles is all.

The Muhammad Ali dynasty set you on the right path but if his sons focused more on developing your cotton industry instead of fighting wars with the Turks and Ethiopians I think Egypt would be much more advanced now and probably could have stopped Israel from existing.

Let's do an assessment on mohammed ali Pashas sons

Ibrahim:didn't live long
Abbas: did nothing at all
Said: how could he think of letting the french have the canal,this borders autism
Ismael: installed army officials because they were his friends and cronies and not for ability of leadership etc. No financial sense.
Tawfik: a tumor

Thats what you get for letting an Alb*anian take over your country

>Constantinople will never ever be under Christian or Greek hands again.
Feels good man.

modern Turks are Greek

>Cordoba will never ever be under Muslim hands again
Feels bad man

It was always a shithole. The muh Golden Age of Islam is just an Orientaboo meme for 18/19th century Western bourgeoisie, it never happened

642 is not generally considered the middle ages.

>Cordoba
We will take it back once the future European demographic becomes majority Muslim. Al-Andalus is rightful Moorish clay.

>642 is not generally considered the middle ages.
The middle ages start with 476, m8

Yes it is. the Early Middle Ages is everything from 500 until the middle middle ages

But that's wrong you nigger

>it never happened
Al-Khawarizmi
Al-Hazen
Averroes
Ibn Khaldun.
Ibn Arabi
Al-Battani
The House of Wisdom in Baghdad.
etc..
Were all those made up?

>a bunch of literal whos
I googled one of them randomly and this is what I've got

>Ibn Arabi
> Arab[1] Andalusian Sunni scholar of Islam, Sufi mystic, poet, and philosopher
So what exactly did he achieve, if anything? Hm? Mr. Abdul?

Are you implying you don't know alkhawarizmi? Your only excuse at this point is being autistic or being an illiterate fucker from the southern us.
The number you use were made by arabs you dumbfuck

>a bunch of literal whos
The word ''Algebra'' is literally named after Al-Khwarizmi's book Ilm al-jabr wa'l-muḳābala.

If Israel got provoked into retaliating against Iraq in the gulf war, things would be different

Iraq was the only thing keeping those kikes in their place until it fell.

Hitler gassed the wrong people,illiterate fuckers like this dude who doesn't know alkhawarizmi should have went instead of the Jews

>literal who's
>founder of Algebra
>Pioneer of modern medicine

Why talk so much when you clearly know so little?

>The number you use were made by arabs
Indian in origin

Plus, inventing a bunch of symbols for values is hardly an achievement, these just happened to become the more popular ones, Abdul

You can find algebra in ancient Greek works like Arithmetica, the Arabs you're talking about probably just copied from there, like everything else

>Pioneer of modern medicine
That would be Hippocrates followed by Galen and maybe Paracelsus

>denying achievements so hard because you're a hard-core stormfart/pol autist

Yeah sure, Cletus

>the Arabs you're talking about probably just copied from there

Yeah good thing they were the only people in history up to their point to actually fund a collectivized research center, gather researchers, scientists and give them a large quarters and make them work together, search and collect ancient greek texts and translate them and revive the works. If a bunch of christkeks found those scrolls they would've burned them because muh heresy.

Get out of Veeky Forums please, your IQ is below the minimum requirement.

>steals achievements of others
>le Christkek inquisition meme
This just keeps getting better, Mehmet.

Here's to the numbers we stole.literally the only thing "stolen" was the idea to have standardised set of numbers

>doesn't know who Averroes is
>goes to Veeky Forums

>le christkek inquisition meme
but it happened user, ever heard where Galilee spent the rest of his life? and he was early-modern, let alone medieval where Europoors regularly had book-burning field trips on anything that didn't look like a bible.

>le stealing meme

Whats your point? Post-dark ages Europe was literally built on stealing. Languages, numbers, everything were literally stolen

>tfw Europeans NEVER actually developed a language

Why are /pol/acks allowed to walk outside their containment pen?

>the Arabs you're talking about
First. Al-Khwarizmi was Persian, not Arab you dumb waste of sperm.
>You can find algebra in ancient Greek works like Arithmetica
Which they copied from the Ancient Babylonians and Egyptians, by your own retarded logic. The Greeks and the West stole everything from the Ancient Middle Easterners. Also the Arabs didn't ''copy everything from the Greeks'' like you like to delude yourself. Al-Hazen literally founded the Scientific Method and is the father of Optical Science.

>Post-dark ages Europe was literally built on stealing. Languages, numbers, everything were literally stolen
>Europeans NEVER actually developed a language
>The Greeks and the West stole everything from the Ancient Middle Easterners
Your wewuzism is showing

> Al-Khwarizmi was Persian, not Arab
Like I'm supposed to know the name of every random raghead.

>founded the Scientific Method
Ever heard of Aristotle?

>Here's to the numbers we stole
>we
kek, fucking knew it

>Al-Khwarizmi was Persian, not Arab
That only lends support to the claim that the Islamic Golden Age is a myth, when in reality it was just Persians continuing to do Persian things in defiance of the stultifying effect if Islam.
:3

>being this retarded

Leave him alone, he doesn't even know the names of the mentioned scientists to know what their works are.

Lincoln didn't finish the job with the south.

thats why its called the ISLAMIC golden age, not Arab golden age because the inventors were Muslim and worked under the patronage of an Islamic government.Also, a lot of those polymaths were quite involved in Islamic theological scholarship as well as the sciences

>>Post-dark ages Europe was literally built on stealing. Languages, numbers, everything were literally stolen
By your own retarded logic? Yes.

>beating up two heavily weakened plague-stricken empires on their worst days after a nearly 30 year war with each other
>impressive

In terms of academics and sciences, the Ottomans contributed almost fucking nothing.

>That only lends support to the claim that the Islamic Golden Age is a myth
No it doesn't. The Persian scientists were still Muslim and Al-Hazen, Ibn Arabi, Averroes, Al-Battani, Ibn Khaldun were all Arab.
>:3
How mature.

The Russians did m8

Don't forget that they weren't all muslims, a bunch of non-muslims worked in the house of wisdom, it was literally THE first thing of its kind, hundreds of scholars, translators, scientists, inventors, dedicated research center with astronomical devices. And they didn't steal shit, they translated greek texts and attributed them to their authors. The same greek works that were sitting under Roman/byzantine rule for hundreds of years and being destroyed whenever found were preserved by Muslims

>the weak empire meme

They were exhausted when the Arabs walked in, but they still topped Arabs on everything from equipment to numbers and still lost. It's a pretty fucking impressive military show. If it's not than Alexander was nothing since he walked up to the Achaemenids when they were falling apart

strawman. he said the ottomans adopted to technology, not create it. massive difference. to compare, the romans contributed jackshit yet they excelled at what they copied.

>The Romans contributed jackshit

Look I agree with your point, but that statement is fucking bullshit.

Sassanids had half of their population dead from seven years of plague that wiped out most of Western Persia populace, a civil war that only ended a year before the Rashidun Caliphate started attacking both them and the Byzantine/Eastern Roman Empire, and on top of that as proven by Al-tabari, the Euphrates and Tigris rivers had flooded, severely destroyed the vital croplands in Mesopotamia that lead to large scale famine.

This was a resurgence of Justinian's Plague, which also struck the Byzantines nearly as badly as it did the Persians. Also to fucking add to this, there is no way the Arab sources on Persian and Byzantine "military numbers" are remotely in the realm of feasibility given less then a decade before their advent, neither the Persians nor the Byzantines could even summon armies larger then 10,000 to 15,000 men in the final days of their last war with each other.

That's not a strawman. Re-read my post. Your post is the strawman. I said nothing about technolgy, I said about academics and high culture. Go ahead, name a single major mathemetic, scientific, or academic Ottoman contribution besides that one-off astrological observertory.

lmao Romans still can't come to terms with how hard they got btfoed

>sassanids had half thier population dead

Exaggeration, and even if actually true, that's still more population than what the sand people had.

>This was a resurgence of Justinian's Plague, which also struck the Byzantines nearly as badly as it did the Persians. Also to fucking add to this, there is no way the Arab sources on Persian and Byzantine "military numbers" are remotely in the realm of feasibility given less then a decade before their advent, neither the Persians nor the Byzantines could even summon armies larger then 10,000 to 15,000 men in the final days of their last war with each other.

So baseless assumtpions are history now?

you realise even byzantine-sympathizing historians still put their numbers equal or slightly more than Arabs?

You realise Arabs themselvses had just stopped killing eachother in a civil war when they ventured north?

What part of. ""they still Fucking outnumbered the Muslims""" don't you get?

Why are Arabs so bad at wars since the 19th century then?

>strawman
Ayyy. The biggest "scientific" advancement the Turks ever did was a big observatory and most scholars view it as being used for fucking astrological signs and predication, not actual observations of stars or scientific mapping of movements of celestial bodies in academic way.

>Exaggeration
Al-tabari's numbers have been verified. Even the carbon dating of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers were proven correct on their flooding and the plague was fucking documented by various sources beside Persian ones including Arabs, Greeks, and other sources.

>baseless assumpations
>Arab numbers stemming from SWORD OF ALLAH.COM and the Koran
>valid
Ayyyyy

>...and since then the whole area has been, and still is, a shithole that nothing useful ever came out of

>breaking down and fully admitting being /pol/ack

Can everybody stop responding to this bait? This is what he lives on.

>moving goalposts: the Post

The only Byzantine historian who claims the Arabs had been historically massively outnumbered had a grudge against then incumbent Byzantine ruler was that faggot Theophanes. His numbers are from hearsay, they aren't valid for shit.

>no rebuttal
>no counter-argument
>just a shitty attempt at poisoning the well and trying call someone "/pol/" to use as boogeyman to deflect from having to prove your argument

Stop samefagging, retard. Learn what goal posts are, considering you don't know how strawman arguments even work.

I randomly picked one of those battle to check it out.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Firaz

Turns out you're full of shit, like mudslimes usually are, it's just myths, legends and revisionism with you, every time.

A better way to rephrase myself is to say that they were excellent craftsmen but didn't innovate on what's established.

>I said nothing about technolgy
>I said about academics and high culture.
Science and technology go hand in hand. When he meant by copy, he was obviously referring to the Ottomans eagerness to adopt firearms. The whole contribute thing is irrelevant.

...

>Exaggeration
Al-tabari has been historically accurate on every claim he's made including going out of his way to measure the soil, the rivers, visiting sites and locations he talks about in his books, and been backed by modern scholarship. Do you even know what YOU are talking?

No they don't, you piss-ant. Academics do not equate to technology in a literal context. You are probably a mental invalid aren't you?

>Arab numbers stemming from SWORD OF ALLAH.COM and the Koran
Not him, but this is a literal lie. Plenty of the battles were recorded and documented by Byzantine chroniclers who have stated plenty of times that they outnumbered the Arabs and were still beaten by them.

>academics ! = technology
No.

>s--hhiitwhole guys... i-t was a shithole *holds back tears*
> T-they made u numbers- don't listen to what those marxist academic tell you .. a band of desert nomads totally could have fielded a larger army than an empire of several centuries

Lmao. this is too good

>>...and since then the whole area has been, and still is, a shithole that nothing useful ever came out of
Not really. The Islamic Golden Age started after that and only ended during the Mongol invasions.

>Not him
Yeah sure.
>this is a literal lie
Then why do so many sources for early Arab battles require citations that haven't been yet verified independently or stem solely from Arab/Muslim historiography? Also I sure as fuck hope you aren't claiming Theophanes as a source.

>no rebuttal
>no counter-argument
>just a shitty attempt at poisoning the well and trying call someone "/pol/" to use as boogeyman to deflect from having to prove your argument

You're /pol/, it destroys your credibility so to speak, and now that you're being cornered you're trying to sound less of an ape.

>sources

both contemprary AND modern historians agree that the byzantines and Sassanids largely outnumbered the Arabs, it's only normal. Two are civilizations centuries old that supported large populations with a trade road passing through them and large amounts of arable lands, the other is a nomadic collection of tribes living in one of the most arid areas in the planet.

>changing course of arguments on floods

still doesn't change anything my dear /pol/ster. The byzantines still outnumbered Arabs, if you're willing to provide a modern historian who isn't biased who estimates Byzantine numbers LESS than Arabs I'll go ahead and take you 1% more seriously (thus taking you 1% seriously)

Reread post retard. He clearly said the Ottomans didn't block out the science and development. All of a sudden you bring up "high-culture" and academics which have nothing to do with fucking firearms.

I never said that. But trying to use the fact that the Ottomans never contributed anything to debunk the fact that they brought in and copied technology is false.

Except it did

>the memes are true

>You're /pol/
No, I'm not. This is the second time you've attempted to poison the well falsely to weasel your way out of making a proper counter-argument.

>both contemporary
No they don't
>and modern historians
No they don't.
>Two are civilizations centuries old
Irrelevant.
>supported large populations
Both were suffering from Justinian Plague for nearly a decade, the entire western half of the Persian Empire's population was cut in two. Your claim is ludicrous. You are trying to use circular logic to make an assertion a fact.
>nomadic collection of tribes
So what? How does this remotely correlate to them being a tiny population? You are flagrantly lying trying to justify and dick-suck hyper exaggerated unverified hyperbolic Arab numbers on past battles that have no proof of the numerical disparity being as great as Arab historians claim.

>/pol/ster
Don't think so, faggot. And burden of proof is still on you to show independent sources that don't realy solely on hearsay and are contemporary of the period when these battles happened. I'll wait.

Re-read my post, you mongoloid. I said the Ottomans have historically no contributed anything signifigant and you brought up technology with your strawman argument trying to claim "I" was making a strawman argument. Are you mentally retarded? And you keep talking about technology as if that correlates to academic pursuits and higher learning, which it does not. The fucking cannons the Ottomans used to take down Constantinople's walls came from a German dude.

You are retarded.

>Then why do so many sources for early Arab battles require citations
The early Arab battles require citations because the Byzantines didn't consider them a threat back then.
> hope you aren't claiming Theophanes as a source.
He absolutely can be considered a source. It dispels your lie that all of the battles were from Arab/Muslim sources

You're reading comprehension is fucking awful:

>"In terms of academics and sciences, the Ottomans contributed almost fucking nothing."
No where here does my post say anything either way about technology. Yet you here with a retarded incomrephensible argument about technology again and "copying" which is never the tangent, only learning and higher education and academics. You are literally THAT stupid that you can't even follow the goal post.

Not that user but you are also stupid: Theophanes is contemporary to nothing to the wars between the Arabs with the Byzantines and Sassanids and comes a full century after the initial conflicts. On top of that, he said "Muslim historians", not "all" historians.

God you are a retard.

>saladin
>getting his shit pushed in by Richard Lionheart

Pick two

>The early Arab battles require citations because the Byzantines didn't consider them a threat back then.
The early Arab battles with Byzantines require citations because Arab sources are unverified and untrustworthy maybe instead?
>He absolutely can be
No he can't? He's not contemprary to the wars and events in the mid and late 7th century? He also had a beef with Emperor Leo, on top of that his book is even riddled with inaccuracies regarding dates, and certain events in earlier Byzantine history and draw from oral claims rather then any actual written documents and are hugely suspect. So a Byzantine monk with a hate boner for an Emperor who has politically and religiously against him writing an inaccurate history to try and humilitate him via previous defeats of earlier more "heroic" Byzantine Emperors is really iffy.