Islam

>haram
>every other week some dunie is blowing himself up to murder hundreds of people

killing the gays is a plus if you ask me

those are deviants who i do not agree with

The Quran literally debunks itself.

Do you believe in the subjugation of your individual free will to that of religious elders? Do you consider shariah states to be appealing?

you dont have to agree with them, but they are just following their faith dude. islam puts little value on individual life.

>hardest mode: no quoting the Koran

Convert OP, islam is the only escape from degeneracy. God will guide your way inchallah.

>b-b-but muh bacon and ethanol
Enjoy being a fat fuck

>b-but muh feminism
Enjoy being the 10th bedmate of your wife and risking unknowingly raising the children of the milkman buddy.

>1438
>chosing to stay a shirkfag for the sake of muh cultural ties

t. resident of carbomya

that's a very simplistic reading, you have to cross reference different parts of the quran with one another to get the full picture
everyone's will is subjugated to something. i would rather have my will subjugated to a tradition i can rationally approve of than have it subjugated to whims and inclinations (i.e. hedonism)
every religion has deviants who claim to follow their faith

Because you're already a filthy mudslime.

Not eating pork is a good policy in general. It's by the far the least healthy meat, also way too similar to human flesh.

Except they consider the Bible to be a retelling, and thus prone to flaws, while the Quran is a verbatim transcription of God's commands to Mohammed.

>but they are just following their faith dude
Technically they are going above and beyond mere faith and have adopted an ideology with a lot of political and social goals and theories.

>Enjoy being the 10th bedmate of your wife
OP here, islam doesn't forbid divorce and remarriage so technically you could be the 10th bedmate of your wife and it would still be halal...or am i mistaken here?

>a tradition i can rationally approve of

go on then, rationalise islam for us

I could recommend you some books if you like, but I made this thread in order to hear some objections. So if anything I would like to hear why you disapprove of Islam, if you don't mind sharing.

>adopted an ideology with a lot of political and social goals and theories
Islam has social and political goals. But those goals don't include murder of innocents.

It can happen but it's not the norm.

still, i wouldn't object to a woman having had previous partners if it was through marriage. both men and women are entitled to seek the companionship of the opposite sex, which is a natural human need, as long as it is done through legitimate means

Because you're a faggot, and you'd be thrown off a roof

Its gay

So no, you cannot rationalise it.

>thanks user, I would like some book recommendations
sure no prob:
- Understanding Islam by Firthjof Schuon
- East and West by Rene Guenon
- Crisis of the Modern World by Rene Guenon
- Islam: Ideals and Realities by Sayed Hossein Nasr
- Introduction to Islam by Mohammed Hamidullah
- Muhammed (biography) by Martin Lings

Also check out some lectures by:
- Hamza Yusuf
- Abdal Hakim Murad
- Seyyed Hossein Nasr
- Jonathan AC Brown

>It's an absolute truth because if you deny it you're denying an absolute truth
>god is real because god is reality
uhhhhh

it's not circular logic, i'm defining the term "God. The definition of God, as explicitly stated in the Quran, is Truth.

It's also nonsense. Muslims adopted Greek philosophy just like Christians did, this idea of Allah being in some way identical to Truth and The Good is pure Greek, nothing Mohemmed (piss be upon him) ever said.

allah is Hubal, the Ba'al of the moabites, the pagan god of Mohammad's father.

Alright, then there is no supermaterial entity that controls the universe.

And like everything else in the quran, it is false.

The definition of God is Creator, the One Who made the universe.

allah did not make the universe; he was an angel who rebelled against God and fell to earth, to lie, steal and murder as many people as he can before he is cast into the lake of fire.

allah is satan, and you're doing what satan wants you to do. Worship the devil as though he were God.

"I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life; no man comes to the Father but by Me."

--Jesus of Nazareth, aka the Truth, and the creator of shaitan/allah

do you really wanna fuck your cousins?

that god isn't real either tqhwy

You'd be far better off reading about people who escaped the death cult of Islam, people like Walid Shoebat and Nabeel Qureshi.

Then nothing is real and you do not exist, as nothing has within itself the reason for its own creation.

>nothing Mohemmed ever said.
it's explicitly stated in the Quran...over and over again
>there is no supermaterial entity
You think all existing things fall under the poorly defined pseudo-category "material"? Not even talking about God here, just in general. Try defining what you mean by "material" because that's a notoriously vague and poorly defined term.

It is indeed halal as long as there is a mariage.

There is no way to prove that Mohammad said anything that is recorded in the quran, as it was written posthumously.

Things don't need a reason for their creation to exist, just a cause.

i'm not gonna dignify this autism with an actual response
>Nabeel Qureshi
I've watched his vids and debates and I wasn't impressed

Does anyone actually believe this? I almost took this bait desu

I support ISIS and even I think suicide bombings are haram

>There is no way to prove that Mohammad said anything that is recorded in the quran, as it was written posthumously.
There are degrees to which something can be taken to be proven. Obviously the strongest degree would be to actually be there and see it with your own eyes. The evidence that he dictate it (he was illiterate and couldn't read/write) is strong.

>shariah states

Name one. Protip: they don't exist

And nothing carries within itself the cause of its own existence.

...

Quran, the supposed literal Word of God, claims that sperm comes from the kidneys.

quran.com/86/5-7

He made it to heaven, and you're going to hell.

I think in the end he's more impressive.

>I support ISIS
Why? Doesn't it bother you that they murder innocent Muslims, as well as some non-Muslims (most victims are Muslim).

He could not dictate it if he was dead.

And he was dead when it was written.

Nope. One was a PLO terrorist who discovered how evil Islam is, and the other was a medical student who told of his journey in "Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus".

Shoebat was constantly wondering why the God of the bible loved Jews, but allah hated Jews.

Why the God of the bible was Love, but allah was a trickster, a deceiver, a plotter and a planner. Why would God be such things?

And has at least a half dozen different stories for how mankind was created, most of them mutually exclusive.

People memorized it, and wrote parts of it down even in his own lifetime. It's a notoriously easy book to memorize.

Those arent rational reasons, thats a list of books

I asked for your rational reasons for adopting Islam.

It's not written in the same arrangement as it was memorized, and more than one version was made. Abu Bakr picked one, destroyed the rest, and killed anyone who questioned his decision.

Abrogated verses mean that it was not perfect, not even true, but amended later by later "revelations".

And of course the satanic verses are in it.

Why could Mohammad figure out it was satan in the cave and want to commit suicide over it, but you can't?

>Walid Shoebat
>was a PLO terrorist

Top kek, did you actually fell for his story? No wonder you are too stupid too accept Islam as the one true religion

Oops, meant for this post:

>destroyed the rest
That's logistically impossible in an Empire of that size, nice fantasy. Opposing sects in Islam all use the same Quran today in different parts of the world.
>Abrogated verses
Have you ever looked up the Islamic understanding of abrogation?
>satanic verses
>hard mode: no quoting random hadith

Yes, I find confessions quite believable.

For the record, my name is Walid Shoebat. I used to be a radicalized Muslim willing to die for the cause of Jihad until I converted to Christianity in 1994. As a member of the PLO I was involved in terror activity, and was imprisoned in Jerusalem for three weeks. In prison, I was recruited to plant a bomb in Bethlehem as a result of which, thank God, no one was injured. My mother was an American and my father a Palestinian Arab. My parents sent me in 1978 to the United States to study at Loop College in Chicago Illinois. There I was recruited at a hotel “Terror Conference” by Jamal Said, a founder of the IAP (Islamic Association of Palestine) and Imam at one of the largest mosques in Chicago.

What empire? It was only three guys who had memorized what would become the quran, and they were all gathered together after the fourth was killed in battle.

There's a fatwa on Salmon Rushdie's head to this day for writing about the satanic verses.

Not to mention the dozens of scientific errors in the quran, mentioned above one citing that semen comes from the ribcage, and that babies are made from a clot of blood.

There's a reason Islam has to be spread by the sword by violent inbred retarded people. It doesn't stand on its own.

>christcuck fear mongering boogieman

>What empire? It was only three guys who had memorized what would become the quran
you've lost me, bro. What are you referring to?

Does this guy know that there are plenty of Christians in PLO? He didn't even try when he made up this story.

islam is quite literally arabic paganism rebranded into monotheism as this was the only way mohammed could see to unite them. the 99 names of allah are all unique and independent gods, and doesnt the quran say that monsters and devils still walk the earth?

No music, no pictures, no statues... it produces no art and destroys all native art where it takes root.

>Not to mention the dozens of scientific errors in the quran, mentioned above one citing that semen comes from the ribcage, and that babies are made from a clot of blood.
weren't these misguided beliefs in an era where understanding of human biology wasn't good at all? I see it no different than people who believed the earth was flat or hell, god creating the universe.

>There's a reason Islam has to be spread by the sword by violent inbred retarded people. It doesn't stand on its own.
some places like egypt and syria didn't undergo violent conquest. In fact, MENA wouldn't become fully muslim until well into the middle ages and early modern period. people mainly converted as a way to escape taxes and gain privileges only consumed by the muslim elite. And then you have central and east asia which muslim armies hardly penetrated into and was spread mostly through trade.

This is pantheism and quite shirk you kaffir.

You want to basically be a cocksucking hippie, don't need the shahada for that.

>This is pantheism
How is that pantheism? That's practically a verbatim quote from the Quran lmao...have you never read the Quran?

> people who aren't monogamous are less likely to be monogamous

Mind blown

Probably like 80% of the Old Testament and 100% of the new God hates jews too.

maybe im just the first idiot dumb enough to be baited, but there is most certainly no such thing as an absolute truth, and if there were, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been found by some unwashed paedophile in the desert.

>it wouldn't have been found by some unwashed paedophile in the desert.
It wasn't found by him, It found him. And he wasn't the first, there were thousands before him. As for there not being an "absolute truth", that's a fair argument if you can substantiate it. I personally think it's an incoherent view. You can't even have relative truth without absolute truth.

The quran is literally a recitation of gods words, it should contain no errors.

> substantiate lack of absolute truth

Burden of proof is on you, buddy

There is no truth without proof, otherwise you're just dealing with bullshit.

And the only way to prove anything beyond reasonable doubt is through mathematical certainty, which is bound by the laws of physics and math, hence a truth relative to our understanding of these concepts.

Ergo, there is nothing beyond relative truth.

those verse can be interpreted in many ways
islamqa.info/en/118879

it's not entirely clear what is meant there

Theistic religions are not based on fact, or are empirically verifiable. You're wasting your time and brainpower that could be better spent on almost anything else.

> reasons why I shouldn't convert to Islam.
there aren't, Kafir.
convert now , because judgement day is coming .

Don't fall for the "people of the Book"meme. Jews and Christians are just as marked for hell-fire as any other non-believer

> Walid Shoebat
the guy literally caught scamming people for donations and using it for personal wealth

fine example you got there

>There is no truth without proof
>hence a truth relative to our understanding of these concepts.
dude wat, have you even studied philosophy at a basic level? this is barely coherent.
>mathematical certainty, which is bound by the laws of physics and math

Because the God of the Israelites was developed instead of having been.

I haven't studied one bit of philosophy, but I fail to see how that disqualifies me.

Please explain which parts of my argument you found incoherent - in detail.

Cute LARPing Johnny

Using Qureshi is entry level bait. He was an Ahmadi before and they're not even Muslim to begin with.

>There is no truth without proof
Self-contradicting statement since the statement "There is no truth without proof" itself has no proof to substantiate it and therefore cannot be taken to be true.
>And the only way to prove anything beyond reasonable doubt is through mathematical certainty
Neither philosophy nor science works that way. Are you sure you understand the role of math in scientific inquiry, and the relation between the two?
>which is bound by the laws of physics and math, hence a truth relative to our understanding of these concepts.
I have no idea what you are saying here, this is just not coherent.

You ought to familiarize yourself with some basic philosophy and with philosophy of science.

> self-contradicting, has no proof

It is easily proven: Give me an example of a truth that needs no proof.

The rest of your argument is just elitism, I have no time for that.

You must be literally retarded. Please kill yourself, you'd be a sure pick for suicide bomber duty.

>Give me some good reason why I should raise another man's child.
If we have to give you a reason, you are already hopeless.

>Egypt
>Syria

They absolutely did almost entirely throughout their history as nations, please kill yourself for being such a fucking moron.

Context motherfucker. The Islamic conquests were not violent in Egypt and Syria.