Yfw the Qing Dynasty was restored twice

Considering the Japanese treated the Chinese worse than trash I don't think they would've been happy about it.

I'd say here are ranked best to worst the fates the Chinese people could've had:
1. A competent Kuomintang with sun yat sen living longer
2. A new native Han dynasty
3. Mao
4 An incompetent Kuomintang with China destabilized by warlords
4. Under the heel of the Japanese Empire with masses of people being tortured or put into indentured servitude.

>I would also have been happy with Japanese control
Only if the Japanese Emperor ends up moving to the mainland, gets rebranded as a Chinese Emperor (Huangdi instead of Tianhuang/Tenno), and the Japanese language ends up eradicated by everyone switching to Chinese.

i.e. only if the Japanese are willing to end up like the Manchu.

WE WUZ QINGZ

t. Northern Han obsessed with being Manchu

>4 twice
Damn. The last one should've been 5 of course.

>Considering the Japanese treated the Chinese worse than trash I don't think they would've been happy about it.
[
Sure we got war crimes, but hey it is East Asia we are talking about here, just because Qin and Sui massacred millions does not mean they hated their future subjects. In fact, many Japanese generals were sinophiles who had a degree is Chinese philosophy and history.

There was a Nationalist faction actually wanted this, invite the Japanese to take control, then by using their superior long tradition of bureaucratic government to eventually run the empire and turn it into a Celestial Empire

I was personally thinking of something more along the lines of: enslave, depopulate, colonize.
Certainly for the coastal areas at-least.

GOD I AM SO SAD YUAN SHIKAI FUCKED UP GOD DAMMIT HE WAS SO GOD DAMN CLOSE TO FIX CHINA IT FUCKING HURTS

>successfully deals with the Japanese and keep them out of Korea for 30 years
>for his military genius he is assigned by Li Hongzhang to create and form the New Army (China's first westernized army)
>be governor of Shandong Province
>keep the boxers out, make it the most stable region in China
>involved in setting up industrial and mining establishments, railways, a police force and new-style universities
>end the decedent and immoral Manchu rule
>as ""president"" of China
>much attention was paid to industry, agriculture, and commerce; especially to industry
>Over 4,000 new factories were built between 1912 and 1914
>issued a series of decrees and regulations which promoted the development of China's national industries
>introduced the modern Western educational system to Chinese people and also ordered the implementation of 4 years of free compulsory education in China
>anti-corruption institutes were established for bringing corrupt officials to trial

meanwhile ((Sun Yat-sen)) collaborated with Japan, not only that HE WANTED TO INVITE THEM OVER. Instead we got Shitty Kuomintang, the only good thing to come out of it was Yan Xishan and ironically ironically was Chang Kai Shek.

The Beiyang government could've made china great again

whats a book on qing

just get some ospreys, shits pretty good at giving the quick rundown

mega.nz/#F!ZAoVjbQB!iGfDqfBDpgr0GC-NHg7KFQ

heres some pdfs

thx you

The Japanese may have gained essentially complete control with the 21 Demands which would have made China into a puppet state of Japan

how did china get so cucked? the idea of the queue is so funny to me

was it a radically different than the normal hairstyle of the day?

A united China would eventuality pose a threat to Japan, even if it were a puppet for a time.
I think the goal was a partition into several smaller states (ala Manchukuo), with coastal areas being turned into Japanese colonies.

There actually are some weirdo monarchists in China but none of them are big fans of Aisin Goro and often perceive it to be an anti-Chinese force.

When nationalism came to China in the late 19th century you some idealists like prettyboy Zuo Rong imagined a generally spurious ethnic and cultural distinction between the Chinese public and their ruling class. This stirred up both anti monarchical sentiment and prejudice against everyday Manchu who had nothing in common with the Emperor in Beijing.

they were already kicking chinese people out and moving japanese people into manchuria - which at the time only had a couple millin of people.

Pu Yi's sister was also married to a Japanese prince with the idea of giving birth to a half caste to rule over them. Pu yi would have had an "accident" eventually.

The queue ultimately is Manchu interpretation of what they think is Chinese custom.

Basically prior the Manchus, the Chinese wore long hair that is topknotted stemming from an earlier folklore tradition that throwing away/defiling what your mom/dad gave you (i.e. your body) is unfilial. So niqqas wore their hair long. Eventually in the Court, there was an official topknot of sorts, which every official wore out of uniformity.

Then came the Manchus who saw all that and thought it was a political statement. So they went "everyone, copy the haircut of our emperor to prove your loyalty." And that was that. Even the Qing Emperor and the Manchus wasn't exempt from Queues btw.

Its a practice that continues to this day (at least, in the Chinese government). When the dynasty gave way to the Republic, the "New Men" who were educated in modernity basically declared their allegiance to a new modern China by sporting this trimmed combover that is today heavily associated with republican China. After 1911, wearing your hair long or in a queue was a sign of backwardness.

That hairstyle split into two: the Republicans combed their shit to the side. The Communists combed theirs from the forhead back. To emulate the Mao look (pre-balding).

I've heard that there was death penalty for not sporting the Manchu queue. What happened is someone was completely bald? Did they make any exceptions?

>Death Penalty
Initially, there was when the Qing was being founded. But later on they just didn't care.

But even then there was social stigma. Even before when they had the topknots. People who shaved their head were seen as rebellious and unruly.
>What happened is someone was completely bald? Did they make any exceptions?
Old people, of course.

Buddhist monks have always been exempt from social stigma. After all they were turning from the secular world for religious reasons.

In this case China would likely be nearly as backward as it was in 1900.

Japan and to a lesser degree Thailand reformed in spite of their monarchical traditions. Ministerial classes interested in reform and modernization were in constant conflict with the king or emperor, who generally recognized that the development of capitalism and a modern government would make him pretty superfluous. Japan was such a success only because the monarch was able to be subordinated. Forward-thinking ministers realized that the emperor was useful as a symbol but nothing else.

China was a nation more backward than even Russia or Turkey at the onset of the 20th century. Communities were localized and disparate, preventing dissipation of technology or information. Literacy and malnutrition were worse than any country in Africa today. The language wasn't even standardized, so any top-down reform was a massive bureaucratic undertaking,

If China had kept its monarchy and feudal traditions enact, the current Chinese state would be not exist. China would be weaker, poorer, and potentially balkanized into various states under various spheres of influence. Chinese modernisers recognized that the monarchy had to be abolished or castrated. The latter proved far more difficult than cutting away the remnants of the feudal society.

Sure.
But Japan lacked the population to do that to all of China.

Given how close Manchuria was to Japan proper, its relatively low population and the areas great mineral and agricultural wealth, it is rather understandable why it was colonized by such a number of Japanese.
Much like Korea, Taiwan or Sakhalin, it is a natural extension of Japan.

t. KMT

I fail to see why China would not be able to industrialize under a new han dynasty.
Neo-Confucianism already laid the ground work for a centralized, bureaucratic monarchy ala Meji Japan.

As long as there was some sort of participatory imperial diet, I fail to see why it would fail.