I mean lets be honest here Capitalist Crybabies

AHAHAHAAH what a fucking cuck!

Nice arguments, morons.

>morons
Nice ad hom.

>ad hom
I didn't say that what those posters said was wrong because they are morons, I said they are morons.

All genocide denial threads should have their stupid infographs forcibly replaced by pictures of the victims as a form of social shaming.

Except there's overwhelming documentation proving both the Holocaust and the Armenian genocide. For example, there are documents in which high ranking Nazis talk about "ausrotten"ing (ripping up by the roots) the Jews.

There is zero documentation proving the "Holodomor". For example, there is no document in which Stalin or another Soviet official talks about intentionally starving Ukrainans. Nor is it ever explained why Stalin would do such a thing (Nazism was fundamentally anti-Jew, communism was not anti-any ethnic group). During the famine, the USSR imported grain from Persia to prevent more people dying.

I'm Ukrainian and most people in Ukraine don't even believe something so obviously fake

There is a book by American historians (no sympathy for Stalin or communism) called "Years of Hunger" about the famine. It uses declassified Soviet documents to show that the Stalin government did everything possible to stop the hunger, particular effort was devoted to helping hungry children. Keep in mind that most books about the "Holodomor" were written before 1991 (when Soviet archives were released to historians) so they are completely invalidated by newer scholarly work (which does utilize those archives)

OP pic uses photos from the 1925 famine. Typical behavior of anti-communist subhumans. But how else do you promote a fake ideology than with fake pictures?

First off Communism, at least in the Soviet Union, treated racial minorities in the Caucasus rather poorly.
Second, explain the people that died. There's a population decline that coincides with the period where the holodomor happened.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Priboi

>Some 72% of deportees were women and children under the age of 16.
> Kruglov, the USSR Interior Minister, reported to Stalin on May 18 that 2,850 were "decrepit solitary old people", 1,785 children without parents to support them, and 146 disabled
>There were people of very old age; for example, a 95-year old woman was deported from Švenčionys District, Lithuania
>they deserved it lol!

Unironically kill yourself.

They imposed high quotas and took food from peasants, leaving them to starve. They didn't allow people to leave famine-stricken areas. They killed resisters and took them to forced labor camps. They labelled anyone who resisted a kulak and they wanted dekulakization, they seeked "to eliminate kulaks as a clase". You're an idiot.

They were treated poorly because most Chechens supported the Germans and waged guerilla war against the Red Army. They weren't treated poorly because of their ethnic group.

Ukrainians had never done anything of the sort, so there was no rationale for Stalin to "starve out" Ukraine in the first place.

Millions of people died in a terrible famine from 1932-1933. Such famines happened constantly under the Tsarist regime. The main cause of the famine was poor weather - see "Years of Hunger" for source. Bungled collectivization by local officials in some areas definitely made it worse. But it was definitely not intentional. Why would the Soviet government even want to do this? Like, what would they gain from just starving a bunch of people? Only the braindead who believe in maniacal "supervillains" can believe something laughably, obviously fake

No serious 21st century historian claims the 1932-1933 famine was intentional or genocidal.

Okay, so it's settled then.

>unironically responding to literal nazi propaganda
>doesn't even bother reading the op .jpg

They traded Khazaks and people from other slavic countries as second-class citizens, they clearly treated Russians better than anyone else and like this guy says, the government imposed high-quotas on production and those that didn't meet them received no food. Also, many countries and even the Ukrainian parliament consider the Holodomor genocide. A quick skim through your country's wiki page proves you wrong. Why are you defending a regime that killed it's own people on masse?

Chechens aren't the only minority group in the caucuses, tankie.
What about decossackization?

F U C K I N GD E S E R V E DI T

>Like, what would they gain from just starving a bunch of people?

They put policies in place that they knew was going to starve people, and didnt care.

> putting a meme on the same level as the holocaust and the armenian genocide

...

There wasn't enough food to feed the population. Either the villages starved, or the cities starved. The Soviet government chose to feed the cities. If they had starved the cities, production of tractors and other mechanized farming tools would decrease and the famine would continue.

If peasants were allowed to leave famine-stricken areas, the famine would become even worse since there wouldn't be anyone left to sow the next harvest.

Also kulaks made the famine worse by hoarding grain and were hated by all other peasants for being exploiters.

Total fucking bullshit. There was mass starvation in Russia too in the black earth Volga region. Huge amounts of Russians also died in the famine. Also total bullshit that Kazakhs or any other ethnic group was treated worse than any other group.

I don't give a shit about the Ukrainian parliament. 100% are thieves and criminals. I wish every day for the death of every parliament member.

"Regime that kills its own people en masse" sounds more like Poroshenko (real name = Waltzman) regime than Stalin's.

Explain how in the hell "cossacks" are an ethnic group. Do you also think "marine" is a US ethnic group?

But why would they do that? They gain nothing. They lose millions of people that could have been in the labor force. They lose support from the regions hit by the famine. Their plans for industrialization were badly hindered by the famine as well. I'm convinced that nobody capable of even basic critical thinking can ever believe the "Holodomor" fake

I'm a different user who is not disagreeing with your other points. However cossacks are a caucasian ethnic group. Throughout russia's history they were a warrior people that were traditionally loyal to the tsar. Aside from a couple rebellions. Eventually Russia made a cossack regiment that was originally made of ethnic cossacks but eventually just became a prestigous military regiment. From the 19th centruy forward most people refer to the military arm when they say cossacks but make no mistake there is definitely a legit ethnic group that still exists.

pic semi-related nicki in cossack dress

...

Right, they non-intentionally took food from peasants, impeded their circulation and killed and imposed forced labor on resisters. Ukrainian nationalism and refusal to collectivize collided with Soviet goals.
Source on famines like this happening in Tsarist Russia?
"Jews were targetted because of their support for communism, inmoral practices[...], not because of their ethnic group", this is what you sound like. Horseshoe theory, everyone.

Stalin literally killed anyone he saw as an enemy or political rival. He organized arranged trials and hung them or sent them to gulags. The same with political dissidents and kulaks or anyone who was even slightly critical of communism.

How do you differentiate a "cossack" from a Russian or Ukrainian? Without looking at the uniform they're wearing?

>marines are an american ethnic group. throughout america's history they were a warrior people traditionally loyal to the president

Prove that "Ukrainian nationalism" even existed in Eastern Ukraine, the region hardest hit by the famine.
>i know more than you do about your own country and its history

How do you identify a irishman from a scotsman or an englishman without looking at the uniform they are wearing?

Thats what you fucking sound like. You do it by looking at their ethnic features or genetic analysis. Your analogy of the marines is incorrect because they were originally formed by the military. The cossacks already existed and became known as a regiment in the russian military much later. Its like if the US military encorporated a regiment of apache indians, eventually a bunch of regular americans would be in that regiment and you would be saying they were never a seperate ethnic group.

Have you ever read Taras Bulba? Have you ever seen the painting "Reply of the Zaporhozian Cossacks" Those arent ethnic Russians. This is not some disputed issue. Its a fucking well known fact.

Here is an extensive wikipedia page on them with multiple sources at the bottom: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossacks

Do you have reading comprehension? I said Stalin killed his own people en masse. I was talking about him killing Russians, not Ukrainians.
>i know more than you do about your own country and its history
Never said I did. Inserting words in other people's mouths? really nigga?

>cuck

back to /r/the_donald

Irish and Scottish people speak (or used to speak at least) Celtic languages, not English. The Celtic natives of Brittony have a long history of conflict with Anglo-Saxon invaders. They have different genetics, and a different physical appearance.

None of these differences can be found between Russians, Ukrainians, and cossacks. Same language, same culture. Same history, same genetics. Same physical appearance to Russians and Ukrainians.

The word "cossack" means "free man" in Turkic. The cossacks were mostly formerly oppressed Russians and Ukrainians who fled to the steppes, where no parasitic aristocrat could follow them.

Because of this history, there are minor cultural differences. But minor cultural differences don't make an ethnic group. By that logic, Bavarians are a separate ethnic group from Germans. And there is a much bigger cultural difference between Bavarians and other Germans then between Russians, Ukrainians, and cossacks.

>I said Stalin killed his own people en masse
And I say you're a brainwashed retard incapable of critical thinking, who believes everything someone in authority tells them to believe without question

>i read wikipedia for 5 minutes and im now an expert on 20th century soviet history

Oh now I get it, you're a commietard. Funny how much you're projecting and accusing others of being brainwashed retards incapable of thinking for themselves when you unironically believe LE STALIN DID NOTHING WRONG. The commies got you boi, without communism, you're country might not have turned into a third-world shithole

I'd say that if a regime takes your food and impedes you leave a famine-stricken area, they are responsible for the fate of the people and should provide some proof that not everybody could be fed if they were to be believed.
Ironically, you sound like a Holocaust denier claiming that supply línes were damaged and there wasn't enough food to feed people in the camps properly. Again, horseshoe theory.
If a kidnapper says "oh, I couldn't feed the hostage properly therefore he died", would you believe him?

Ukranians and cossacks do have their own languages. They do have different physical appearance and they do have different genetics.

The cossacks have been around since before Russia was founded.

The cultural difference are as minor as the difference between an irishman and an englishman, meaning not minor at all except to the people that dont know the cultures.

You are conflating the fact that just because all these people have slavic origin they are ethnically the same. Its made all the more confusing because Russia has exerted influence and dominated both of them for centuries. However just like an Irishman can speak english and knows english traditions, that does not make him an englishman except to an ignorant outsider like you. Any Russian can easily point out an ethnic Ukrainian, cossack, georgian, armenian, or any of the other multitude of ethnicities that are prevelant in Russia.

You are just plain wrong dude.

>should provide some proof that not everybody could be fed
>during a massive famine

literally what the fuck.

If there was only enough food to feed one person, I would believe the kidnapper.

You just can't compare an Irishman and an Englishman - who are literally racially different - to a Russian and a cossack, who share 90%+ genetics.

Alright arguing further is pointless because you are not listening to fact. I've given you sources and tried to educate you for your own benefit. I know you cant compare the two, that my point. A Russian and a cossack are just like an englishman and an irishman. They are not the same!

Last bit of education for you. You share greater than 90% of your genetics with an ape. So a Russian and a cossack definitely share more than 90% of their genetics as does every human. You goddamn idiot.

During a massive famine where they took people's food and prevent their circulation actually.
Also, I assume you'd believe the kidnapper if he provided proof which is the point of the analogy.

The Holodomor makes the assumption the Bolsheviks could properly organize a massacre on such a large scale. This is laughable given they were incapable of such coordinated planning.

The number of deaths is relevant, but are no doubt at least in the hundreds of thousands. Yet it is more important to acknowledge that these deaths are a prime example of Soviet governance, or rather the lack thereof.

>Solzhenitsyn

Fuck off

So glad I wasn't born with a sub 80 IQ like this guy

Bullshit, the USSR system failed where neighbors like Romania had no problem.

As for ideology, everything is up to debate, both communism and property rights, but you can't debate it unless your stomach is full and no one is threatening to torture and murder you.

Whether it is human nature or something else, whether Stalin was a "true communist" or not, the fact stands that humans act like monsters when there are no consequences to their actions. Maybe some exceptional humans can behave, but I am sure even they would realize how flimsy their position is and that they would be taking a grave risk entrusting it to someone else.

The famine may not have been intentional, but under such a repressive "one way street" system no one could stop it, administrators lower down the ladder could not criticize their superiors or disobey orders under any circumstances. It resulted in absurdities like accusing gangly skeletal looking peasants with dying children of hoarding grain. It is obvious that removing property rights does not remove evil.

Butthurt Ukrainian Fascist detected

>where neighbors like Romania had no problem

AHEM

Ceausescu wasn't in power back during Holodomor.

Yeah, I'm glad I have an IQ above that of a communist too.

>IQ above 200
Wow, that's impressive man.

Look, dude, communism preaches collectivism but that doesn't mean you should add up all commies' IQ.

Top kek lad

yey

>add up all commies' IQ.
Is there even a number big enough to represent that sum?

Wooooow

Omg omg, communists btfo! Epic dude, simple epic. ;)

Hahahahhahahahaha. I am literally crying with laughter right now. Will communism ever recover? Who knows! Lmao!

Holy shit! :0

Epiiiiiiiiiiiiic

Samefag.

t. butthurt commie

Look at all the replies. Do they seriously look like they were all written by different people to you?

Meh. Even if they were that was a good joke

Not really it was pretty shit. Between his post and all the replies the thread IP count didn't change at all and each reply was posted about a minute between each other. It's clearly some cuck replying endlessly to the same post with "lol so awsum" shit.

Kys

To be honest, picture would be more effective in what it tried to message if it was about Holodomor only and not whining about Holocaust being lie.

>own two horses instead of one
>get killed

FUCK THOSE KULAKS

Is this the proverbial jewish paranoia that I keep hearing about?

You have to make difference between 1931-1932 Famine and Holodomor.
First one is a fact, caused by agricultural arrears dating back to the 1891 and which has affected several areas of USSR.
Second one is a propaganda cliche used by ukranian nationalists to present themselves as some kind of an object of genocide and oppression.

Wow you can use photoshop, good job kiddie.

>"the worker should keep the full value of his labor!"
"can I keep all this food that I farmed?"
>"what? Of course not! Guards, arrest that man right now!"

If farmers in America kept all the food that they farmed, there would be mass starvation because most people aren't farmers. Same situation with the Soviet Union.

Sad and pathetic that I have to explain something so basic, so obvious to anyone who isn't subhuman. Even a child could think this through. Just more evidence that right-wingers deserve execution

>We're champions of the worker as long as they do everything we say
>Kill everybody who disagrees
More evidence that left wingers deserve execution.

>workers should be entitled to the fruits of their labor
>but farmers should not
Communism is full on doublethink

>Sad and pathetic that I have to explain something so basic

>Sad and pathetic you have to resort to this bait. Sad and pathetic that farmerss in America have more of a right to keep their labor, but choose not to because there is material benefit to selling it. Sad and pathetic that ol uncle Stalin cant do that, because communism.

Sad and pathetic that you think the kulaks were a thing and somehow survived collectivization and the russian revolution with strong enough numbers to actually affect the Ukraine. Sad and Pathetic that the USSR simultaneously collectivized the Ukraine while letting the kulaks not be collectivized. Sad and Pathetic the USSR was still exporting grain to the west throughout all this, from the Ukraine. Sad and Pathetic.

>obvious /pol/ falseflagging thread with a conspiranoid pic to try to further their narrative
>81 replies
Well done Veeky Forums.

"ausrottten" means destroying/ killing every single one
YOu think -rotten comes from root, but it comes from rotte=group

Sad and pathetic right wingers further proving why they deserve to be executed

>Not being a tankie makes you a rightwinger that needs to be executed
really makes me think
/leftypol/ truly is the most tolerant place on the internet

>adhering to the tenants of communism makes you a right-winger now
Boy, you tankies have really slipped off the slope

Isn't this like the third thread you've posted your awful weeb oc in now?