youtube.com
>There are people who unironically believe that rich Roman women in ancient Rome must have disliked their lives because they lived a life of nothing but leisure, married very young to rich young (sometimes old) men, lived in luxury, and couldn't into politics and military campaigns.
They even manage to make a 13 year old girl "forced to wear"(I mean how dreadful am I right?) lots of expensive and beautiful jewelry look like a burden for her. A 13 year old girl!
I'm not saying the lives of Roman women were always great compared to men. For one thing, there were certainly many double standards and limits on female conduct in public. Considering, however, they were socialized to marriage, children, luxury and beauty above anything else was desirable (it is "feminine"), I can't see how unhappy they could be over such things presented in this video.
Minus the gladiator thing. Was that true btw? I learned in a class once that women had to sit all the way in the back at the Colosseum. This wasn't the case for the horse races though. Was it only noble women or all women?
Also
>implying a wealthy family wouldn't have their own bath
Oh and the comments are just terrible
Roman civilization and women
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bump.
I guess I should add the video is from Ted-Ed so this level of bias and fuckery is not surprising.
Post Roman lolis
Modern historians overdo it by assuming women were always living horrible lives. Using Rome as an example, it's objectively clear that Roman women had more rights than Greek women.
socialized to view*
dammit.
That's the funny part. It's mentioned from the beginning of the video. Outside of comparison though, historians seem to forget their own concepts of socialization and gender as a social construction. IF women are raised to believe such activities are feminine and marriage + children are the highest achievements for a woman, how then could they all simultaneously be unhappy? Sure some aren't allowed to realize their potentials so that can cause lack of fulfillment in some one if they "want more" out of life personally but it's hard to extrapolate that too all women.
Whoops meant to add you to that earlier post.
Annual reminder that rich girls were in fact educated in Roman schools.
>Feminist historians
FTFY. Serious modern historians now that everyone has had it shit, pretty much since the dawn of time, and that the oppressions of women are matched by oppressions upon men.
I don't think they were schooled formally and they definitely didn't go to uni. They had tutors though.
Funny, it was actually believed at one point that upper class Roman women didn't read and write because there was never a letter found a woman author. Then there was finally was one found. It was by a woman writing to her friend who was living on Frontiers with her Governor Husband. It turns out, they could write and did write letters, but most of the time they just had their scribe slaves write it for them.
>muh oppression
Suck a dick.
Was it true that Roman females had to sit in the very back in Colosseum? And for what purpose. I'm confused whether it was all women or just upper class though.
Huh? What are are you talking about. I agree with you they learned to read and write. No account I have read tells me about Roman girls going to formal school though. You can be home schooled and learn just fine, better often considering the education system in some places like here in the U.S. is trash. Can you give me one source at least instead of spreading insults? I even gave you an interesting fact about Roman women literacy yet you just ignored that too...wth dude.
You see this is the shit I'm talking about. WTF is this?
youtube.com
How the hell do they assume how every girl and woman felt about being a Vestal Virgin? How the hell do they know that even most girls were in a state of perpetual fear about being a Vestal Virgin outside of normal beginner's nervousness?
Again,considering it was such a high honor and they got many privileges such as not having to marry for 30 years, own property, and stay like that if they want, free from their pater familias. Most remained unmarried likely more because they could not get many men to risk marrying a forma bride of Vesta than simply because they refused. (Ted-ed forgot to mention that their tenure was only 30 year in the middle of all that masterbastion to female oppression).
britannica.com
ancient.eu
How do they know that little girl or even most women believed Lucinia's claim of innocence? Most of the time it didn't happen anyway as the girls fervently kept their vows. So what is keeping all the women somehow automatically empathizing with her?
The punishment for letting the fire wasn't even death but a beating from the Chief priest. Not pleasant or fair but still...
Was it easy to be a Vestal Virgin? Was it possible that some women were more scared about their task than honored? Sure. Were Vestal Virgins often scapegoated? yes. But for Christ sake, they make it seem like most of them were despite socialization that it was a high honor. This video is an example of modern bias transgressing historical accounts.
Suddenly concept of socialization and gender as a social construction go out the window and women then felt exactly as women now feel about things despite "indoctrination" of gender roles. I would common on the video but I'm sure I will somehow be attacked as a misogynist for not agree with everyone that every waking moment of their lives was hell.
Rant over.
why are you triggered, faggot?
>they definitely didn't go to uni
Well, nobody went to Uni until the Middle Ages when they were invented.
>It turns out, they could write and did write letters, but most of the time they just had their scribe slaves write it for them.
lol
>Ted Talks making shit up
I know I should be surprised, but I'm not.
But didn't they have some form of formal schooling and higher education for boys( besides practicing in public speaking)?
What is that "lol" for?
Do you not buy it?
They had things like the academy and lyceum (I'm not super clear on the differences), but universities as we understand them are a mediaeval phenomenon.
And I was just laughing at the idea of having a slave write a letter. It seems so petty and odd. Here in America we have this idea of slaves being uneducated farm laborers due to our history of slavery.
I know there was some evidence that Romans would scapegoat any bad luck that happened to Romes on the Vestal Virgins not keeping the flame well. For the most part, though all the Vestal Virgins kept their chastity well and their was rarely suspicion except in a few cases. Anyone know if there were many documented cases of lack of Chasity in Vestal virgins btw?
Every Roman household had educated slaves( usually Greek) who could read, write, do medicine, etc. They were more expensive of course, but were treated better than the others. If you watch Rome at least or read up on it, Caesar's slave Posca was such. Also many "body slaves" that accompanied roman matrons throughout their lives. They could read and write and help with stuff.
>It seems so petty and odd
Trust me, Roman's were quite petty.
>my job will never be checking each day the hymen of a few roman girls
Is that what they did?
I wonder what would happen if A vestal virgin was raped? I would imagine the man was executed but what to do with the priestess now? I assume that a man would have to be a complete psychopath to ever consider doing something so crazy though.
Bump for answers to other questions.
...
What the hell does this have to do with anything? Get your personal cuckold fantasies out of here.
So, Romans hated race-mixers, too?
How is that even an argument against /pol/?
Theres a book called Invisible Romans about women and slaves, worth reading. Stay away fro youtube for history, its too easy to learn wrong things. Books have editors, fact checkers and are expensive to produce compared to a bad youtue video which the uploader can simply remove if it affects their business model.
I don`t know about book but we have really little recorded information about roman women and slaves. So i would take it with grain of salt.
>how could someone want more than what society has told them to desire?
Posts the Veeky Forumstorian.
>irony levels: fatal
There are few cases.
Aemilia was put to death in 114 BCE for performing incest on several occasions. She induced two of her fellow Vestal Virgins, Licinia and Marcia, into performing the same action, but they were acquitted by the pontifaces. Later, the praetor Lucius Cassius Longinus Ravilla condemned Licinia and Marcia for their unchastity.
Aquilia Severa was the daughter of Quintus Aquilius (who was a former consul under Cararacalla). She was married to a man named Elagabalus in the earlier part of 221 CE. This was a great scandal, especially since she was a Vestal Virgin. Elagabalus thus divorced her and married Annia Faustina, but that marriage was very short, and he returned Aquilia Severa. She served as his companion until his assassination in 222 BCE. Aquilia Severa's death was never recorded, but as a Vestal Virgin, it is assumed that she was probably put to death.
I think there were more. Also we dont have records before first sack of rome so who knows.
I fucking hated learning about women in Greece and Rome in class, it was ALWAYS secondary material by feminist women without fail, with all the implications that come with it
Opionated historians are the worst.
They insert their ideology into every aspect of history, not just womyn's studies
>while many consider Athens to be the birthplace of democracy, it can't be considered so because they didn't allow women, slaves and metics to vote
SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU FUCKING CUNT
Why would everyone want more than what society has taught them to desire?
I mean, everyone? Really?
I don`t understand why they show them as miserable. Women did have rights and were treated with respect especially if they were matrons. However early republic they had it bad and were considered owned by their husbands. But if you look at empire years you can see they have plenty more rights. It is important to know which period is described as rome changed a lot over time.
Cloth waiving was seen as best thing woman can do. It was seen as ``roman women thing`` to do. Thou by late republic people really didn`t do it. Wife of augustus was known to do it and was respected for it too.
Also women were tasked with taking care of household. We know some of wife's also acted as spymasters.
In video it shows girl not liking jewelry and feels overwhelmed by. In reality roman woman loved wearing jewelry and it was also symbol status just like today. Even some emperor(i think it was augustus) tried to ban it and failed.
I do recall hearing that if that happened, there was no way to tell if it had indeed been consensual or not, therefore they would just assume she was guilty. The punishment for a vestal virgin who broke her vows was to be buried alive.
Oh I heard of that book. It is one of the main sources on information of ordinary people in Rome. Great read. Most of the accounts are from graffiti.
There is a pretty funny passage in the chapter about prostitutes in where a guy describes in his own words how woman have orgasms kek.
I didn't say none of them could want more, I simply said that most women felt that way is pretty unsubstantiated considering that socialization. I'm sure I explained how obviously some women may have felt limited, mostly the very intelligent ones/tomboys.
>Aemilia was put to death in 114 BCE for performing incest on several occasions
With who?
Sauce? And what about the dude? Would they just assume it was completely consensual and let him go?
And btw, I meant more of in the case when it was undeniable that they had been a raped. Not simple abduction.
wtf are you talking about you uneducated swine? It was known that Romans were one of the most xenophobic people ever. Hell, the word barbarians developed from them and literally meant anyone who doesn't speak Latin.
Holy fuck stop posting shit like this. Those men and women ARE THE SAME RACE. Men were depicted as DARKER because THEY SPENT MORE TIME IN THE SUN. Women are pale because the noble women (most depictions of women happen to be nobles, imagine that) spent most of their time inside.
Those are the same fucking race of people just the men happen to have a tan.
Also greek.
Just look at their faces
They are clearly roman