Whelp

>>be a person who actually pays his taxes

AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

fuckin jew faggot

do you know who else didn't pay their taxes?

Irwin Schiff.

And yet his son turned out to be the biggest bankfag in the world.

Just keep paying in, Kohlrabi. Dont cash out, but make more play money.

what did he mean by this

i see Tether mentioned all the time re: taxes. what does Tether have to do with taxes?

nothing. if you are trading cryptos, any crypto including USDT and all altcoins, on an exchange for the expressed purpose of making money, then every trade is taxable and you need to record the fiat values in your records for each trade. anyone who thinks USDT is some magical tax haven is going to be fucked dry and left bleeding.

so let's say, hypothetically of course, i've never cashed out my fiat back into my bank account. BUT i sold ETH or BTC and waited out the bear market. is that a taxable event? or are short term capital gains only realized when i go from my exchange to my bank account?

How can they know that you have to pay taxes, if you hold your cryptos and don't transfer them to a bank account?

Those are like exchanges, every single little trade you make is not a taxable event think about how ludicrous that would be. You just pay your taxes come next tax season after you cash out

ad.:
I just see the Austrian gov put up their rules 2 weeks ago.
And indeed, if you hold it 1 year, it's not taxable. If I understand it correctly.

bmf.gv.at/steuern/kryptowaehrung_Besteuerung.html

they can't

actually, he's right

The IRS are being absolute fucking jews about crypto and I will not pay taxes on anything UNTIL they allow crypto-backed assets. There's literally no reason COIN should not have been acceptable. They just don't want regular people like you and me to be able to shelter crypto in a Roth IRA, HSA, or some other tax-sheltered account. They are fucking criminals.

i don't want to underestimate the jewry of the IRS. but what you're saying is if i've deposited $2500 into an exchange and never withdrawn USD from an exchange taxes aren't an issue yet?

every piece of crypto you own (if it's in your exchange account, you own that too fuckheads) is viewed as a piece of property by the IRS.

every time you sell property for a gain or loss, you can claim that gain or loss on your taxes, and if you held that property for more than a year the long term tax rate will be 15%, and less then a year it will be taxed with your regular W-2 income.

so if you buy 1 BTC on coinbase, no taxes yet because you just bought property.

then if you sell the BTC to ETH, you are selling property to buy more property, so you need to know the USD values of each property and claim the gain or loss on that - taxable.

then if you sell the ETH back to fiat, you are selling property for currency, so you need to know the USD value so you can claim the gain or loss - taxable. but obviously you'll know it that time because you're selling it to fiat.

they only care about the transactions. they don't care where you coins or money are (exchange, wallet, etc).

you're right, but once they subpoena the exchange records you'll be fucked dry.

you're going to be fucked. a 1031 like kind exchange is an instant audit red flag, and traders will not qualify for it. they are trading, not exchanging like kind property.

because major exchanges are compliant with regulations. Coinbase, Gemini, Kraken etc. can and will turn over transaction data (Coinbase has already done this)

I can only say that I'm quite certain that in Germany/Austria, using ETH to buy Dollars, Euros, Milk, Honey or BTC, is all taxable.
If you bought 1 ETH for 100$ and two months later then use this 1 ETH, now worth 150$ to buy something else, you got 150% of what you'd otherwise have gotten. Those extra 50$ will be taxed.

technically you have to pay taxes on every trade since the IRS classified crypto as an asset and not a currency

also, technically, the IRS won't know shit about your gains until you cash out if you aren't a retard

Its tax free after one year fiat->btc->fiat

its not if you go fiat->btc->over9000 shitcoins->btc->fiat

you would have to let btc lay around untouched

Every trade is taxable user.

You put 2500 in, bought something, nothing happened.

The next trade you do, where you initially bought say btc, and then traded for eth, is a taxable happening.

>paying taxes to support wars for israel

you're even more cucked than he is

I'll get a Russian working visa when I'm done with my study, work there for 1 year, clear all belongings in Europe (address, social security...) and come back with a credit card that can be filled with BTC, and pay everything in BTC.
Basically living off crypto-trading and not existing anywhere.

yes, that's what my OP was all about

As soon as I use my mooned NEO for anything, I'll pay 10€ for each NEO.

re: long term capital gains, here's a scenario that gets confusing for me:

>i buy 1 BTC
>i transfer that BTC to Bittrex and buy 1000 OMG
>hold OMG for 365 days
>sell the OMG for 10 BTC
>cash out the BTC immediately

OMG -> BTC qualifies for long term, but then if i go BTC -> USD i'm under short term gains again? because that's fucking bullshit since there is no OMG -> USD pair.

oh goddammit

continued...

it's just so fucked up that on one hand the IRS classifies crypto as an asset because they don't want to legitimize it as a currency (and all the benefits that entails for its investors), and then refuse to endorse a crypto asset-backed ETF. There's nothing else like it in the world that is getting fucked from both sides of the equation. Until the IRS clarifies whether or not crypto is an ACTUAL asset (with the freedom to become electronically traded) OR a currency (so we don't have to track every single trade), there's no point to declaring them. All it takes is one good lawyer that isn't afraid to get murdered to address this hypocrisy.

>cash out the BTC immediately
If you buy BTC when it's 3000$ and sell immediatenly, there are no short term gains. So you don't really pay for that.

re-read what i typed. i bought BTC, bought an altcoin, held the altcoin for a year, then converted back to BTC so i could go to USD

whoops that was for you

>1) btc -> omg
taxable but as long as you just bought the btc 10 minutes ago, odds are the price hasn't moved and you owe $0 (gain) x 30% (tax), so nothing
>2) omg -> btc long term
taxable at 15% on the gain for the difference between the cost basis that resulted from tx1 to your net from tx2
>3) btc -> fiat
taxable at the cost basis from tx2 to your net from this tx. so if you did it immediately after you sold the omg for 10 BTC, then in theory the BTC price should not have moved, so you should have a almost $0 taxable gain here.

not as bad as you think. the issues come up when you are holding the same coin on the side. so if you have another 10 BTC from 4 years ago, those may have to be reported sold if you are using FIFO which you should be using, so you effectively got taxes twice.

I edited it. But again, you're not getting it.

fiat -> BTC at 3000$ (just buy action)
BTC at 3020$ -> Altcoin (you pay taxes on the 20$ gain)
one year nothing
Altcoin -> BTC at 3720$ (you held for 1 year, so this isn't taxable)
then "immediatenly!"
BTC at 3720.4$ -> fiat (you pay taxes on the 40 cents gain)

>taxable at 15% on the gain

We shouldn't be using 15% as the de facto long-term CG rate anymore. It's much more stratified now. Most of the poor NEETs won't be paying anything on long-term CG

I wrote
>you held for 1 year, so this isn't taxable
but yeah as the user above me points out, this might be different in 'merrica

most poor neets won't even be filing taxes on all this shit. I'm just trying to help the smart anons trying to do this shit properly. and because the MODS won't enable flags on Veeky Forums, I have to just assume everyone here is a US citizen.

>not as bad as you think. the issues come up when you are holding the same coin on the side. so if you have another 10 BTC from 4 years ago, those may have to be reported sold if you are using FIFO which you should be using, so you effectively got taxes twice.
fyi, if it's of interest, I'm the OP who just posted the Austrian gov excerpt in and what they say there is that, for Austria at least, FIFO is optional if you have records of all your buys (pic related).
I.e. even if I own a bunch of mooned NEO right now, if I would buy 3 now and sold 2 tomorrow, I could (seemingly) decide to not use FIFO and only pay tax on the 1 day gain.

oh ok i follow. in my mind i was thinking if i buy 1 BTC from my main exchange and go to bittrex, then come back to my main exchange a year later with 10 BTC i'll be taxed on the 9 BTC gains

personally I just avoid it altogether by using alternate coin->fiat markets like ETH->fiat or LTC->fiat, or just let it happen to raise my cost basis (assuming the value is going to keep going up) to limit my tax exposure in the future.

If I buy 1 jar of honey with 3l of milk, then (again, this is just the Austrian handling) the record value for the transaction is the day-price of the thing you give, i.e. 1l milk price times 3.

If I go
milk honey milk honey milk honey milk honey
then only the $ price in the inbetweens count. a former milk asset doesn't have anything to do with a later one (i.e. the 1BTC and the 10BTC are unrelated, with the alt inbetween)

There surely are ways to use your BTC without having to withdraw it to you bank account.

I know in Switzerland you can withdraw cash from a bitcoin machine. If you have a lot of BTC, it might be worth it to go there on this purpose.

Wait so I daytraded a currency a bunch of times. I have to pay taxes for all 20 of those?
And the government pays ME for the trades where I sold at a loss?

In what sense does this automatically avoid FIFO?
You sill trade your BTC to LTC before the cashout, and there you make the gains that you could calculate via FIFO

That doesn't make it non-taxable.

Searching for illegal ways to evade taxes should be the goal. Even Blade just came out of 3 year jail or whatever for this shit

I was assuming that I wasn't side holding all 3 of them. If I held BTC, ETH, and LTC on the side it couldn't be avoided at all.

my situation is I have a ton of old ETH, and I don't like using BTC especially when transferring between exchanges, so whenever I sell an alt, depending on how much the proceeds are, I either off load it to fiat as ETH to raise my original ETH cost basis (I started buying around $10), or off load it as BTC to avoid touching my ETH cost basis at all.

So in the US and I required to pay even if I don't cash out to fiat? I don't have the cash to pay for trading gains

You can't make gains from the goverment, but if your gains are G and your losses at L, all within a calender year, then the taxable gain you report is G-L.

If your losses are bigger than your gains, you still report G-L (which will be negative, i.e. losses) and you won't gain or pay anything from that.

since you brought it up, what's the deal with offshore bank accounts?

What if you pay someone with BTC to buy a car?

You settle for 2.5, you wire him his 2.5 and he gives you the car.

I mean technically, the IRS has its code (I'm not a US citizen, so I'm pretty sure I'm safer than US citizens), but since it's very liquid and was made to be this way, it would be stupid not to use it as a currency.

There is the law, and there is what can technically be enforced.

You have a year to make enough more gains to pay the taxes.

you need to record the USD value of the BTC at the time of the transaction. your taxable amount will be the USD value the 2.5 BTC at the time of buying the car minus the USD value of the 2.5 BTC when it was originally purchased.

Of course it was made to be used like that and I hope it will be in the future.

The fact that those 2.5 BTC worth 8000$ or whatever were probably bought cheapter at 5000$ or so, and that you'd in principle have to report 3000$ gains,
this is merely a sideeffect of cryptos being so volatile compared to fiat.

Satoshi sure wasn't thinking of taxation, but the gov want your gainz.

>ITT: Coiners try to understand tax law - Volume 5.

I'm not helping you guys this time. You all need a sticky.

You are so law-abiding.
You should read The International Jew from Henry Ford.

There is a reason why financial markets are not taxed for investment banks: only jews have access to the big gains you can make.

For once the good goys have access to something that makes a lot of money, but no, they can't benefit from it fully. Always have to pay the lion his share. Fuck this shit.

If you trade let's say $100k to buy CHF 100k, and sell your CHF back when it's worth more, and get $120k, you still have to pay taxes on the gains?

You can use BitPay to fuck around with your money. That way you're never "cashing out". Which means you don't have to pay taxes on your gains.

Its not that fucking hard. Not every trade is taxable thats ludicrous. There is already a tax form for US taxpayers its a free service you can use. You pay taxes not even you cash out, you pay them the next Tax season that you do so and will be taxed according to whether they were short or long term capital gains. Basically wait to cash out in USA until right before tax season but a year after you pay in, pay your share and you are good to go. Consult your bank and an accountsnt before you do so. Its not that complicated.

Can i make a new bittrex or coinbase that's not tied to my identity or any bank account and cash out that way? And just say it was hacked

Thats retarded. Youre retarded. Im sorry user you arent outsmarting the IRS. Just pay your 30% and be grateful we had aj opportunity to get rich off of literal digital pokemon cards.

It's not just about cashing out.

If it's within a year, 20k$ are gain and will be taxed.

And don't get at me with that good goy bullshit, If the risk is worth trial for 20k tax evasion to you, go ahead. I don't make the rules.