What if the Vikings in America lasted just a little bit longer?

actually not, that was a different scenario

The natives were more than capable of fighting against Europeans during that period if you don't count the rampant plagues that killed them when they were coexisting peacefully. The bulk of the "conquest" happened during centuries, and that was after the invention of guns.

They lost 90% of their population, had their societies crumble in some end of days scenario, had no iron weapons and no horses.
If the vikings transfered cattle, horses, a working immune system and iron technology it would have been completely different.

Iron was irrelevant without gunpowder. Native swords were just as good as European ones for the porpuse they served.
Also there is no fucking way the immunity would of transferred from North America to Latin America in such a short period of time. The Aztecs, Mayans and Caribbeans had fuck-all to do with the Sioux, and the Incas probably never ever heard of them during their entire existence.

>Iron was irrelevant without gunpowder
Not realy, iron is very relevant when it comes to weapons. gun power was still in its infancy when it hit the Americas. but stone tiped arrows fare poorly against steel armor and so do stone swords. Iron, or even bronze would have made a huge impact.

>Also there is no fucking way the immunity would of transferred from North America to Latin America in such a short period of time.
Diseases spread remarkably fast, the bubonic plague did run over all Europe in few years. Diseases would travel all of the Americas within a few decades
This would have killed off most of the population around the year 1000, and then give 500 years to regrow population, this time with a immune system

Plus horses, which mean transport capacity, pastoral agriculture, horseback warfare etc.

The Spanish would have found well armed empires at the hight of their power instead societies already destroyed by an apocalyptic pest.

>but stone tiped arrows fare poorly against steel armor and so do stone swords

Iron and steel swords also fare poorly against steel plate. But most people didn't had it.

>gun power was still in its infancy when it hit the Americas

Also yes, in 1500, but the conquest of America wasn't complete until way into the 1600s.

>Diseases spread remarkably fast, the bubonic plague did run over all Europe in few years

There was almost no communication between North, central and South America tho. There was communication between the big developed civilizations, but small tribes were very isolated from each other.

>Plus horses, which mean transport capacity, pastoral agriculture, horseback warfare etc.

Horses aren't that useful for warfare or agriculture in the middle of the jungle, or the height of the mountains. North American tribes did had enough time to adapt them into their tactics in our timeline.
Central and north Americans didn't had anything to do heavy lifting, which was a disadvantage, but the South Americans did had llamas, and made great use of them.

The spanish would of still found the Incas in the middle of a big civil war, an Aztec empire that was considered tyrannical by the people around them, and a Mayan civilization that had already collapsed under it's own weight. These were the big players in the Americas, the other smaller tribes wouldn't have been able to do much on their own even without the diseases.

>The spanish would of still found the Incas in the middle of a big civil war
But they were in a civil war because their king died from some european disease.

>Iron and steel swords also fare poorly against steel plate. But most people didn't had it.
no, but halberds and war hammers do remarkably well.

>Also yes, in 1500, but the conquest of America wasn't complete until way into the 1600s.
Yes, now imagine a couple hundred Conquistadores going against a huge army of healthy, well armored men, with shit tons of heavy cavalry instead of a lump of disease ridden stone age guys. They just would have been driven back into the sea.

>There was almost no communication between North, central and South America tho. There was communication between the big developed civilizations, but small tribes were very isolated from each other.
Well, nows there's horses, all of North America and the better part of Mexico are linked now for sure. And diseases rot their way through a continent, no matter what.

>Horses aren't that useful for warfare or agriculture in the middle of the jungle, or the height of the mountains.
Yes, but they are mighty helpful in the temperate plains, what large parts of the Americas are made of.

You are thinking South Americas only, but there where large populations in North America also. 500 years of cattle herding, plowing with horses, using iron, growing numbers, train in wars etc would completely turn the tables. Especially when not every village or towns mysteriously dies by disease a couple years before the white devil shows his face.

>5.4/10
>11%

Meh.

>like Huns on the high plains

Isn't that what the Souix essentially did?

You're assuming that given horses and iron, the Natives would develop a European-style culture. That is a very far-fetched assumption. Most cultures that had iron did not develop heavily armoured soldiers and heavy cavalry, and a plains-based society like the Native Americans would certainly not.

>Now imagine a couple hundredth conquistadores against a huge army

Never going to happen. The conquistadors never conquered anything other than small tribes that way. In the case of the Inca they would of waited for another similar opportunity.

>nows there's horses, all of NA and better part of Mexico are linked for sure.

Technology wasn't the limiting factor for communication between them. North American tribes were very isolated by choice. They didn't liked foreigners, they would of specially disliked the aztecs, who would of been the only developed culture to make contact with them.

>Large parts of America are temperate plains

Only North America and sub-amazonian south America. The big 3 native civilizations were in places where the horse just wouldn't have been a big deal.
And I'm not trying to discredit the Sioux and the Iroquois, but they had enough time to adapt horses and guns, so I don't see this scenario doing a whole lot for them.

Most of the natives would die from smallpox if vikings stayed longer and had more time to expose them to diseases. So no, they won't be much more prepared but the vikings would have a lot of empty land to populate.

not gonna lie, the idea of travelling half the world just to fund a bunch of norsemen just chilling there is hilarious. "we travelled the atlantic sea and found a previously unknown land. There were where strange things: crops that grew undergrund, giant wooly cows, brown men armed with obsidian blades, and norsemen"

imagine the german's reaction

>Also there is no fucking way the immunity would of transferred from North America to Latin America in such a short period of time.

It's been 500 years. Do you see any native americans dropping dead from common diseases?

>he gives a fuck about website ratings

No, but the Spanish settled in all areas of America, and the immunity was most likely developed independently in the different regions of the empire
And even if it hadn't: a unified language, a unified rule, bigger transoceanic ships and roads would of increased contact between the different American groups.

>You're assuming that given horses and iron, the Natives would develop a European-style culture.
Not really, I rather assume they develop a central Asian style culture.

Maybe around the Plains, but I'd imagine it'd be different around the Lakes.

Hundreds of wooden clinker longboats, thousands of natives in chain mail, helmets, swords, spears and long axes. They praise the Allfather Odin with a deep and bone chilling howl as they advance in a perfect shield wall . The wildest of them fight bare chested and only clad in a bear skin, they seem to be in trance and immune to pain, they take musket balls to the guts and still keep coming.
>At this moment Jean-Pierre understood that he was completely and totally fucked

Great one. Are you american?

>The spanish would of still found the Incas in the middle of a big civil war, an Aztec empire that was considered tyrannical by the people around them, and a Mayan civilization that had already collapsed under it's own weight. These were the big players in the Americas, the other smaller tribes wouldn't have been able to do much on their own even without the diseases.

None of that would happen. Given the dramatic change in history OP is implying, Aztecs, Incas would not even exist and there is no knowing what the Maya would have looked like. For all we know Chichimecs acquiring horses which did happen and they used them to good use irl, could have invaded mesoamerica mongol style. And with increased communications, some of this technology and horses would have fallen in the Andes by now, changing their history. Given how late the Incas emerged it's hard to know what would have happened.

>Horses aren't that useful for warfare or agriculture in the middle of the jungle, or the height of the mountains. North American tribes did had enough time to adapt them into their tactics in our timeline.
Central and north Americans didn't had anything to do heavy lifting, which was a disadvantage, but the South Americans did had llamas, and made great use of them.
Most of Mesoamerica wasn't jungle though, mostly just parts of the Maya region and lowlands of the gulf coast. That said I imagine they'd be more likely to adopt seafaring technology of the vikings, since this was the prefered way of travel.

What was wrong with what he said?
Huayna Capac, the second to last Sapa Inca before the fall of the empire died from a disease he got while in Colombia, the disease believed to be one such as smallpox the Spaniards brought over at the time and caused an epidemic that killed a massive amount of native americans. Not only did the Sapa Inca die, but so did his eldest son, and he decided to split the empire between two sons giving the North to Atahualpa and the South to Huascar before he died. That caused the civil war between Huascar and Atahualpa to happen.
If Huayna Capac didn't die then the Incan Empire would be much more stable and immensely more united politically by the time the spaniards came since they wouldn't be in a civil war or have destructive royal conflicts.

Lets say, the little colony makes it 50-100 years, then climatic changes close the seaways and force the remaining colonists to integrate with the native tribes. they bring along their cattle, their diseases, their iron making, their horses, their iron plows and wheat and barely and oxcarts Also rune scripture is adopted.
Due to generations of abducting women and children the local tribes have a somewhat better immunity to the new diseases, but the rest of the continents is fucked, 90% of people die off, but there is no wave of colonization following.
Fast forward 250 years, horse and other cattle have reached south America, iron working is practiced down to southern Mexico, and up the coast of Alaska
Fast forward another 200 years, entire new civilizations have developed with even more population thanks to advanced agriculture.

Guns had been invented long before the New World was discovered.

It's not sarcasm, I was just surprised that an user over here knew about Incas too.

Wait, is being an american an insult over here?

If I remember correctly, chimu culture traded with the mesoamericans of mexico. And Incas benefited from the comercial trade of chimus.

So the iron age would slowly appear on SA. Maybe chimu people would "reconquista'd" those incas.

Some people, dumb people, use it as such.

Yes, but outside of siege warfare they haven't been used efficiently until around 1520.
Even if you bring a hundred or so arquebus to bear, there is 10'000 man heavy cavalry trained to run infantry down with long lances. You'd need a fucking pike square to counter that, which you don't have because you lack the numbers. And even if you had a pike square, they would be bum rushed by 5000 Valhalla seeking Berserkers.

No, american education is used as an insult, though there are some civilized specimens.

Don't say that, the inca wewuzer will destroy this peaceful thread.

>The Norman all spoke French after 50 years.

The French were the high tech/skill/status element there.

In this case, the Vikings would be the model for the Indians and just as in OTL, the Indians would adopt Viking practices, including language.

>The Aztecs, Mayans and Caribbeans had fuck-all to do with the Sioux, and the Incas probably never ever heard of them during their entire existence.

What is Cahokia.

But in this alternate timeline, there is 500 years for Viking traders to make their way down the Mississippi and on to Mesoamerica and beyond.

You misspelled Valhalla rising

Perhaps something a little more dramatic.

>volcanic thing happens and the icelanders flee to vinland

Spotty contact is maintained with europe allowing a minor boost

Due to the difficulty of the journey Vinland maintains a fairly low profile with most traders thought to be from somewhere on the now death trap of Iceland.

after a few hard yet profitable trade trips the vinland settlement grows mostly self sufficient, Iceland grows more inhospitable and they eventually give up on oversea trade

There is now a mid sized town of something like 2500 vikings with a few hundred slaves, the town is probably a bit inland and bordering a notable river. There are a few dozen farming villages scattered along the coast, mostly plantation style with a mid sized family of overseers and a fair number of native slaves/workers.

The vikings would have a rather easy time expanding into disease devastated and half ruined Native villages and enslave/adopt the survivors.

The vikings would likely expand into the void left by the bloom of disease fairly easily for a decade or two and likely overextend themselves while gaining control of most of the region near the ocean. After that point the Native tribes would likely recover some what and likely push back at the sprawled out vikings and seize control of many of the scattered farms.

A bunch of fairly well armed but fat and green viking Vs. some annoyed and likely harsh natives(survivors of plague and a near complete breakdown of civil order). Whoever wins, it will probably be bloody.

After a victory/defeat the vikings will likely fort up a bit, fearing further attack/native slave rebellion.

Then you have the vikings somewhat clumsily getting their shit together while the local tribes do the same.

Things would settle into something of a state of iffy peace mixed with the odd raid.

Again, language is matrilinear, yo mamma teaches you to speak, at best some words would make it into the local idiom. Religion maybe different, Odin could prevail.

>Again, language is matrilinear, yo mamma teaches you to speak

Which of course explains why American Indians today don't speak English...

If you are outnumbered 1000:1 that happens, if you got a couple hundred vikings, they get breed out within 3 generations and only few word remains

>coexisting peacefully

>all you scrubs not knowing what the butterfly effect is
Color me surprised. Yes, an immune Huayna Capac wouldn't have died of smallpox...but he also never would have existed, you tards.

Anyway, for entertaining stuff like this go to alternatehistory.com. It's pretty dank so long as you don't try to talk politics or current events with the commies there.

WE WUZ VIKANGZ N SHIT!

>this scenario was so close from happening

Southwest Puebloans would benefit too. Assuming they don't get invaded by horsemen from the plains or comanches.