So I herd an interesting theory in the other thread before le autistic French ruined it.
It said that all western European aristocracy and nobles stem from Germanic origin.
Like during migration age, Germanic tribes conquered everything that was left of the west roman empire and made themselves at home.
Lombards took Italy, Visigoths took Spain, Franks took France (and Belgium and the Netherlands and Alemanni took what is today southern Germany/Switzerland.
All those societies where tribal, early feudal and Germanic, and so all the noble families where of Germanic origin.
Due to class laws, clear distinction between Germanics and Romans, hugely favoring the formers and constant intermarriage the Germanics (now culturally adapted to their new homes) made themselves the ruling class, and this system kept on going up to the French revolution.
Is this true? Did Germanics really take over all of western Europe?
West european aristocracy all germanic?
Eastern Europe too.
Not so sure, there is plenty of Polish, Sorbiana and Silesian noble houses who seem to be of Slavic origin. The Russian Rurik dynasty might have some Germanic in them.
The Frankish empire on the other hand had only nobles of Germanic origin as far as I know.
Patrilineally, it is most probable, excepting of course Hungarian and Slavic aristocracy intermarrying with Germans in HRE.
Matrilineally it is most doubtful.
Hungary/Bohemia - Habsburg (Germanic)
Romania - Hohenzollern (Germanic)
Greece - Glücksburg (Germanic)
Russia - Holstein-Gottorp-Romanov (Germanic)
They slowly weaseled their way onto almost every throne in Europe during the 19th century.
Yes, I guess there is a lot of cucking done in over 1000 years. but can we say for the first 2-300 years it was pretty obvious that nobility was of Germanic breeding stock?
You are missing the argument, 19th century politics are not what I meant. All those countries have a domestic nobility class that is not of Germanic origin. Germans becoming king there trough marriage in the 19th century doesn't really change that fact.
So kind alike the Normans took over England and still have most of the nobles titles. German tribes took over western Europe and their families prevailed.
Well, the Tudors were Welsh.
But most nobles and royalty were Germanic.
Actually it is much easier to trace the noble houses from the 10th century onwards, than it is in let's say 500-800 ad.
There is quite simply not enough information about the origins of these noble houses, which were certainly part of the military class and elite, but not yet powerful feudal holders. Who knows what kind of intermarriages went on during the middle and late migration periods.
Hell, if I remember correctly there is a roman senator somewhere in Charlemagne's ancestry.
Can't remember Wales or even Britain being part of the Frankish empire and hence part of this question.
But pic related sure only had germanic nobles left.
Before William, Britain was ruled by Anglo-Saxons (Germanic) or Danes (Germanic too).
ok, point taken.
The Bernadotte dynasty is Frenchies taking over the throne of Sweden. Thats some payback.
>Bernadotte could have worked with Napoleon, ensured French victory and possibly gotten Finland back in the process, but instead he threw it all away.
>Bernadottes still rule Sweden to this day
>it is good to be king
>Nappy is dead
>rule
Pretty strong words for the weakest monarchy in the world. At least the Japanese Emperor is a religious head. Is it really worth reigning if you do not rule? Pretty sure the Bonapartes would have preferred to abdicate rather than that.
nice trips Adolf.
Also, the Swedish royal family must be so sad to be so powerless, I sure hope their little holiday cottage makes them feel happy a bit.
Yeah it's interesting because the first Bernadotte exercised a lot of his authority and was pretty absolutist until more pressure was put on him.
>Adolf
But why
Maybe he was just smart, like Napoleon is a sinking ship, I am king of Sweden and if I play this right all my offspring will live in wealth and style for the centuries to come.
The vast majority of european nobility is nowhere near old enough to be able to claim roots from postroman germanic settlers, so no.
European high nobility of the early medieval certainly was. Most of them can trace their roots back to Frankish times.
Napoleon wasn't a sinking ship at the time though. French supremacy was at its height and Sweden was in conflict with Russia. No one predicted Napoleon's defeat and the thought at the time was that France was invincible and total victory for her was inevitable.
Bernadotte became king of Sweden in 1818, long after Napoleon and France have been finally defeated.
>high nobility of the early medieval
Most of the high nobility of the early medieval period didn't survive beyond the 12th century tho, so it's kind of a moot point.
Most european noble lineages start being somewhat reliable around the 12th century, by which time it would be absolutely impossible to establish the ethnic origin of new nobility, especially considering the merchantile origin of urban aristocracy and the mercenary origin of country lords.
>Most of the high nobility of the early medieval period didn't survive beyond the 12th century tho, so it's kind of a moot point.
Read the OP again, will you? We are talking about end of migration age and early medieval who laid the foudnations for a germanic noble class.
Feel free to bring examples of familie if you have some in mind.
He was high prince and regent as early as 1810 though.
>laid the foudnations for a germanic noble class.
Kinda my point. Those guys died off by the 12th century, so how can they be said of having laid the foundations of anything? The european ruling nobility of the early middle ages was undoubtedly germanic, but they weren't the ancestors of even just the late middle ages nobility so what foundations did they lay exactly?
>Feel free to bring examples of familie
Off the top of my head, the unruochings were high nobles who didn't even made it to the turn of the millennium. It's kinda silly to ask for examples because obviously given the numbers we're talking about you could name a hundred names that died out and a hundred that survived and it still wouldn't be in any way meaningful.
Look, for example Capétiens and Robertiens both where originally of Frankish stock, and they became ruling house of Franc fro a bloody long time.
So yes, bring an example of what families died off in the 12 century and why they did matter or just quit your argument.
>Off the top of my head, the unruochings were high nobles who didn't even made it to the turn of the millennium. It's kinda silly to ask for examples because obviously given the numbers we're talking about you could name a hundred names that died out and a hundred that survived and it still wouldn't be in any way meaningful.
So lets concentrate on those that survuved, and ruled for example around 1500.
And what a surprise, you can trance most of Europe back to the Franks or other Germanics.
>you get your ethnicity onl by your father
99% of Nobles soon or later married someone from country they ruled. I have never seen anyone claimng that Slavs ruled Sweden only because one of their kings was of house Mecklenburg.
Yes, they married the daughters of their noble neighbors, aka another Frankish girl. Nobles marry mostly inside their own class, you know.
>all nobles in Europe were Franks
Or Lombards, or Burgundi, or Alemanni, or Visigoth. So that makes them all Germanics.
>just in case you didn't read the op
Sweden and Northern Germany and with its Slavic nobles sounds quite western to me.
Seriously, why don't you try to read the thread? Are you stoned or just plain dumb?
>yes it has already been discussed ITT
>no it is not the question
I guess you'd have to look at old medieval ancestry records and see if they at one point claimed that wodin was their ancestor.
The Germanic conquerers did change to the Christian faith fairly early.
>Contemporary historian Ralph of Diceto traced his family's lineage through Matilda of Scotland to the Anglo-Saxon kings of England and Alfred the Great, and from there linked them to Noah and Woden. According to Angevin legend, there was even infernal blood in the family.[9]
That is about Richard the lionheart
???
I take it your post is completely unrelated to the discussion?
Too stupid to read or follow the chain of replies I see?
Sorry mate, but you lost it, long time ago I'd assume.
Thanks anyway for your valuable and informative contribution to this thread.
Yeah you're dumb
This, it was a closed system, marrying a peseant girl wasn't exactly common or sanctioned,
At one point in time this might have been true, but then people assimilate over the centuries. So even if the basic breeding stock of the European noble class was of germanic origin they lost all cultural ties to anything Germanic pretty fast.
Did they?
Not him, but they do. Look at Nicholas II for example, he was Orthodox and fully Russian culturally yet genetically he was mostly German.
Yes or take the Normans, full fledged pagan Norse warriors, after a generation they all spoke French and where good catholics.
Don't know about Germanic but they were degenerates that needed something like the French Revolution or 1917 October Revolution. If all these proto-globalists were offed in Britain and Germany earlier as well as France and Russia, the world would be a better place.
All of them are pretty worthless. Once Elizabeth dies, the British monarchy will become nothing more than a Hollywood celebrity show 'Keeping up with the Windsors' or something.
> Grand Duke Sergei Alexandrovich Romanov (the younger brother and uncle, respectively, of Russian Emperors Alexander III and Nicholas II) served as the Governor of Moscow from 1891–1905. His homosexual relationships were widely famous in Moscow
His brother, meanwhile, was a typical German degenerate. Lenin did nothing wrong.
This is retarded, most of the german dominions over Southern Europe and Eastern Europe were short-lived. Only the royalty was of german (mongrel) blood due to, well, simply being related to every other king in Europe and the western world really. Even the Ottoman sultan was partly related to the European kings.
Pretty much the proto-globalists.
Well, it was their autistic way to gain legitimacy and power.
Regardless, this says nothing about the blood of the lower nobility and high class. They were most of the time still locals. Or families settled centuries earlier.
Whenever a civilization took over another the latter usually wouldn't be destroyed, instead it would be slowly integrated into the fold. This works both ways, believe it or not, the conquerors enforce laws, social norms, culture and what have you on the conquered, but they also learn from the conquered enough to become entirely different.
This usually happens when lots of really different ethnic groups share the same spot for a long time, their cultures unite into a brand new one - all the roman, Breton, Frankish etc people of Francia eventually became French. All the Berber, Visigoth etc people of Al-Andalus eventually became Spanish. Notice how both forgot their germanic Influence and became latin, mainly because the bible wasn't translated and latin was the only written language those people used. So no matter who rules it, the people of the country would eventually meld into the same pot.
With the aristocracy you're mostly right. The aristocrats in western Europe tried to stay in power over the peasants by making it very hard for them to climb the social ladder. They did this not because they valued germanic blood over whateverelse blood, but because they wanted to be a clear gap between noble and peasant. That said there were lots and lots of rulers in Western Europe that didn't claim any Germanic ancestry. Some user mentioned the Tudors in England, but there are also all the Italian families in the merchant republics like Genoa, Venice, Pisa, there were Greek rulers in southern Italy before Normans came, there were lots of Italian counts and dukes that didn't pretend to be Lombard(Matilda of Tuscany comes to mind.) Italy ceased to be ruled by germanics long before the French revolution.
I did some reading today out of boredom and even fucking Spain has nearly no Germanic influence over them.
They have worse though. They have the Bourbons.
Yeah, but Bourbons are technically a Spanish family. And they're just the national pets like all other kings.
Both them and the UK's monarchy should be abolished. Monarchy was bad back when it was full of degenerates having fag orgies, now its just promoting this cosmopolitan Hollywood-enforced celebrity culture bullshit. Get rid of it.
>Franks took France
Nope
French took Germany tho
OUI
HARE
>Romania ruled by germ dynasties: Hohenzollern,Habsburg
>Bulgaria ruled by germ dynasties Battenberg, Saxe-Coburg, Holstein-Gottorp-Romanov..
>Yugoslavia ruled by germ dynasties: Wittelsbach, Luxemburg, Capetian, Habsburg..
>Poland ruled by germ dynasties: Wettin, Vasa, Piast, Capetian, Habsburg
>Russia (Ukraine, Belarus) ruled by germ dynasties: Rurikid dynasty, Holstein-Gottorp-Romanov
>Czechoslovakia ruled by germ dynasties: Luxemburg, Habsburg..
>Spain Vandals/Visogoths
>The monarchy and ruling elite in Spain derives from the Visigothic Kingdom
>France ruled by descendants of Franks/Normans
>UK ruled by Anglos/Saxons
>Italy Lombards, Nomans, Ostrogoths Frankish Empire by Charlemagne,
>Poland Piast dynasty derived from several noble lines of Germanic Holy Roman Empire
>Russia, Bulgaria ruled by German tsars (Rurik dynasty + Holstein-Gottorp-Romanov Dynasty)
>most of Europe ruled by Hapsburgs
the Germaniacs continue with their 2000+year old expansion and genocide spree.
They bursted from the Nordic peninsula down to modern Germany and started genociding Slavs to the east and Celts to the West.
The Germans officially lost the lands they took from Slavs (Magna Germania), but they gained lands they took from Celts (Britain).
Though eastern Europe was still ruled by German dynasties and Mennonites, the serf/slave population was Slav.
France and Spain was under German rule, but the Germans adopted the Latin languages that replaced Celtic.
Even recently Russia was ruled by German Tsars and aristocracy, so was Romania and much of Eastern Europe.
germaniacs are in the same tier as mongols and mohamedians.
these 3 nations account for 95% of global genocide, destruction, and continued totalitarian extremism.
Osterreich is Eastern Empire
Visterreich should be the name of Germany, France, England
the germans ruled eastern europe (german tsars/aristocrats over russia, poland, bulgaria, romania, czechoslovakia, magna germania) for 2k years
germans ruled over western europe (franks, saxons, vandals)
all the while genociding slavs in the east and celts in the west
The former "German" lands became German by what we call in German "Deutsche Ostkolonisation " (German east
Monarchy is fucking terrible. Proto-globalism.
>Germanic princess Catherine the Great was appalled by German husband antagonistically low opinion of Russians and his desire to germanize the Slavic country.
>Catherine the Great continued Peter the Great's policy of germanization
>introduced Franko-Germanic dress to his court and requiring courtiers, state officials, and the military to shave their beards and adopt germanic clothing styles.
>policy that Germanic customs were superior to Russian traditions
>commanded all of his courtiers and officials to cut off their long beards—causing his Boyars, who were very fond of their beards, great upset[16]—and wear germanic clothing.
>before Peter the great, ballet and other germanic culture/arts in Russia was nonexistent
>Pushkin reformed "inferior" Russian language by introducing Franco-German words and traits
major goal of Peter's reform was reducing the influence of the Boyars, Russia's elite nobility, who stressed Slavic supremacy and opposed germanic influence
Peter saw slavs as backwards and obstacles standing in the way of germanization. He specifically targeted the boyars with numerous taxes and obligatory services, including a tax on beards.
Another Peter decree in 1713 established Landrats (from the German word for "national council"). The new Russian provinces were modeled on the Swedish system of provinces,
Peter's anti-Slav/Boyar reforms culminated in 1722 with the creation of the Table of Ranks. A new generation of technocrats soon supplanted the Boyar class and dominated the civil service in Russia.
Peter's germanization monopolized certain strategic industries, such as salt, vodka, oak, and tar. Peter also taxed many Slavic-Russian cultural customs (such as bathing, fishing, beekeeping, and wearing beards)
Peter changed the date of the celebration of the Slavic new year from 1 September to germanic 1 January. In the year 7207 of the old Russian calendar, Peter proclaimed that the Julian Calendar was in effect and the year was 1700.
Peter's reign deepened the subjugation of slav serfs to the will of mainly tatar-germanic landowners.
Peter firmly enforced class divisions which continued to oppress the slavic majority
"Privilege of German", the Germans/Mennonites were granted additional rights (freedom from war-and civil-service for all time, no swearing of oaths in court, the right to carry on a business or trade, and more), while native slavs lived as serfs with no rights except to be farmhands and servants to their masters.
Native Slavs hated the unjust German "privileges" and economic domination and found them to be a foreign body that owned the native serfs, ie Makhno and his revolt against the Germanic elites
How were these fags allowed to exist for so long? Why did no one do them in before based Lenin and Stalin?
Spain's noble surnames are Visigoth but they're not ethnically Germanic.
most of europe was under Germanic ruling class for almost 2000 years
same story throughout most of europe, including eastern europe:
Makhno revolted against the Germanic ruling elite:
>At the age of 11 Makhno began working as an ox drover on the Janzen estate in Silberfeld. Here he began to develop a hatred for the German ruling classes. In his memoirs he writes: "At this time I began to experience anger, envy and even hatred towards the landowner [Janzen] and especially towards his children - those young slackers who often strolled past me sleek and healthy, well-dressed, well-groomed and scented; while I was filthy, dressed in rags, barefoot, and reeked of manure from cleaning the calves' barn."[17] Makhno also worked at the Mennonite owned Kroeger plant in Gulyai-Polye.
>Throughout the civil war, Mahkno and his troops raided many German and Mennonite colonies and estates in the Katerynoslav Oblast. The larger rural landholdings of Mennonites were prominent targets due to their wealth and proximity to Gulyai-Polye.[18] The Schönfeld colony, located adjacent to the Huliaipole area, was unique in that it consisted predominantly of Mennonite estate settlements across an expansive area. Mennonite colonies were targeted by Makhno because, as owners of prosperous farms and estates, they were considered kulaks - wealthy farmers that exploited the labour of the surrounding, mostly Ukrainian, peasantry. Ukrainians were traditionally hired by wealthy Mennonites as house servants and farmhands
literally Germans ruled over eastern Europe
they were the aristocracy, the tsars, the landowners, the factory owners
the natives were the oppressed slaves/serfs
Ethnic Germans and Mennonites themselves, having been stripped of their wealth and property during the revolution. Some Mennonites accompanied punitive detachments against the peasantry, which greatly contributed to the growing bitterness between Germans/Mennonites and Ukrainians.
Nestor Makhno's anarchist army generally targeted Germans/Mennonites because they were thought of as "Kulaks" and an entity generally more advanced and wealthy than the surrounding Ukrainian peasants. The Mennonites Germanic background also served to inflame negative sentiment during the period of revolution. Makhno himself had served as a slave on a Mennonite estate in childhood and harbored negative feelings based on treatment and abuse he received by the Germans while employed there. Hundreds of Mennonites were murdered, robbed, imprisoned and raped during this period, and villages including (and around) Chortitza, Zagradovka and Nikolaipol were damaged and destroyed
>Ostkolonisation aka germanic reconquista and genocide of slavs
>Ostsiedlung German eastward expansion
>Volga Germans, Transylvanian (Siebenbürgen) Saxons, Transylvanian Landler, Zipser Germans
>Galician Germans, Crimea Germans, Sudeten Germans, Carpathian Germans, Forest Walddeutsche, Gottschee
>Banat Swabians, Sathmar Swabians, Bessarabia Germans, Bukovina Germans, Regat Germans
>Ethnic conflicts erupted between the newly arrived settlers and local populations, sometimes bloody, and expulsions of native populations are also known.[3] In several areas subject to the Ostsiedlung, the existing population was later discriminated against and pushed away from administration.[4][5]
>In 983, the Polabian Slavs in the March of the Billungs and the Northern March stretching from the Elbe River to the Baltic shore succeeded in a rebellion against the germanic rulers
>Klaus Iohannis (Transylvanian Saxon), the current President of Romania
>This is what g*rmcuck actuaklly believe
Delusional nigger
Italy/albania was ruled by germanic House of Savoy
I have this theory that autism is a German disease that the rest of humanity has unfortunately inherited due to not keeping them isolated in their frozen hellhole north of Italy.
germanics have taken over the world. The Germanic mind is considered the normal healthy mind. Anyone who does not conform to Germanic way of thought is treated as abnormal and in need of correction. Look at all the pain they have caused. Non-Germanics have had to change their culture and society in order to match Germanics level of selfish interest. Those who do not conform are considered irrelevant and worthy of death and colonization.
It is abhorrent that one should force his mindset onto another. Aboriginal Australians do not want to act like "the white man", they have been robbed of their land and way of life just like the countless other peoples whom the Germanics have conquered. When ancient Romans and Greeks invaded lands they would take care of the native populations, building services and roads but they would be mostly left untouched as long as they paid taxes. When Alexander conquered he built schools and library's and the native peoples loved him for it.
We are so ingrained with Germanic perspective that we don't even realize it.
My question is, how did we reach the modern age of colonialism where Germanics have not only taken away from natives their land, but also their souls? It is evil, pure evil.
Germanic are extremely bloodthirsty savage cruel people. Outwardly they're all smiles and politeness but when you get to know them they're vicious like lions or wolves.
Look at all the misery they have caused worldwide. Wars, colonialism, diseases. Being such a small amount of people they have killed so many more people than they have produced. They're also sexual deviants yet don't use sex to create children. They are a nasty race of devils who have no love for anything except their own individual selves. They don't even like other Germanics or their family members. Everything is competition to them. The Germanics biology is one of seeking out imperishable fame to achieve wealth and sexual partners by any means necessary. And Germanics love it! They take tremendous pride in their ability to kill and destroy, they obsess over violence all day everyday. To the Germanic, families tearing themselves apart and living lives filled with harsh competitiveness is the foundation of their deranged brand of normalcy.
And this way of thinking which Germanics claim is normal has been pushed onto the entire world and everyone cannot succeed in capitalist life without adopting the fierce brutality of the Germanic.
When blacks, Asians, South Americans and other native populations say "I hate white people" they should be saying "I hate Germanics"
they're also mechanistic and ideologically shallow. All their philosophy revolves around how the individual needs to comport himself in society, something everyone else can figure out for themselves. They're ALL little Eichmanns.
> When ancient Romans and Greeks invaded lands they would take care of the native populations, building services and roads but they would be mostly left untouched as long as they paid taxes. When Alexander conquered he built schools and library's and the native peoples loved him for it.
You forgot the part where the Romans executed all the males of fighting age in the conquered population. The Romans had already gotten the ball rolling on mass serfdom of the coloni, they just weren't strong enough to collect on the system with the tribes across the Rhine and Danube waiting for their chance to take over.
>Poland Piast dynasty derived from several noble lines of Germanic Holy Roman Empire
why would you lie on the internet?
Prestiż dynastii na arenie międzynarodowej podniosło małżeństwo Mieszka II Lamberta, syna i następcy Bolesława Chrobrego, z Rychezą, po kądzieli wnuczką cesarza Ottona II.
Mieszko I of Poland also submitted to Otto II's overlordship.[7] Henry II, however, was not so fortunate: Otto II imprisoned him under the custody of the Bishop of Utrecht
>matrilineally
this way everyone is related to everyone else
>Mieszko I of Poland also submitted to Otto II's overlordship.[7] Henry II, however, was not so fortunate: Otto II imprisoned him under the custody of the Bishop of Utrecht
poles submitted to german ballz
genealogiagenetyczna.com
>Wygląda na to, że Piastowie należeli do R1b. Dr hab. Tomasz Kozłowski, antropolog z UMK w Toruniu, ujawnił niedawno, że zbadane szczątki księcia mazowieckiego Janusza III (1502-1526) wskazują jednoznacznie na haplogrupę R1b i że nie było możliwości zanieczyszczenia próbki
A lot of the mainland Europeans intermarried with Gaelic Irish noble families who were exiled from Ireland. Spain, France, Austria etc.
>Błędem jest automatyczne utożsamianie R1a wyłącznie ze Słowianami, a R1b wyłącznie z Germanami lub Normanami.
I know that >H>R>E is a meme, but Holy Roman Emperor was the most powerful monarch in Europe in late 10th and 11th century.
It's too early to tell, but it's possible they were Germanics.
>I have this theory that autism is a German disease
So you finally accept your germanic heritage then?
nie, oni niemieckie
Piast belonged to R1b. PhD, Ivan Kozlovsky, an anthropologist from the University of Nicolaus Copernicus, showed recently that explored the remains of the Mazovian Prince Janusz III (1502-1526) indicate clearly on haplogroup R1b
ITT butthurt non-Germanics whining about us being better for all of history.
Get over it.
Just because us Germanics are the best doesn't mean every Germanic is better than every non-Germanic, just most of the time.
>haplogroup
>tell tale sign of people that know shit about history and shit about genetics.
en.wikipedia.org
>As a result, in 1015 Henry, supported by his pagan Liutician allies, launched another armed expedition against him. He attempted to cross into Greater Poland but was stopped by Bolesław's troops at Krosno on the Oder River. In 1017 Henry renewed his campaign, while Yaroslav attacked Poland from the eastern side. The emperor's troops besieged Niemcza in Silesia, however, with the help of outside reinforcements the city held out and Henry was eventually forced to retreat.
>Holy
Pagan allies.
>Roman
lol
>Emperor
One city kicked his ass.
That's not him, he's far less articulate and more vulgar in his insults
Kyrgyz people are R1a z93, they are poles
>shitty google translate to polish
>using memegroups of some shitty prince from 16th c. to prove the whole dynasty is somehow germanic
Germans do not feel pride of themselves, quit LARPing
German Americans do
>In July 1002, Bolesław proceeded to a council with King Henry at the Kaiserpfalz of Merseburg in Saxony to deliberate on the enfeoffment of Meissen. As his claims were rejected, he left the royal court with disappointment. Moreover, an attempt was made on Boleslaw's life, which he escaped only with the help of Duke Bernard of Saxony, the Nordgau margrave Henry of Schweinfurt and several friendly German nobles. While it is not known for sure if the attack had been ordered by Henry and the contemporary chronicler Thietmar of Merseburg denied any complicity, Bolesław believed this was the case. In any case Henry did neither protect him, nor did he punish the assailants.
Because all G*erms are backstabbing bastards.
>mfw Henry II was canonized
>advanced tactics
>bad