Holocaust deniers often name typhus as the real villain rather than the nazis but how many people actually died of...

Holocaust deniers often name typhus as the real villain rather than the nazis but how many people actually died of typhus in the ghettos and the concentration camps? Or what is the most accepted estimation?

About 7 million

Probably a couple thousand. But more to the point,

>puts you in a prison camp with no sanitation
>you die of typhus
>"it wasn't us nazis, it was that damn typhus"
>"we dindu nuffin"

pretty retarded desu

>typhus is due to sanitation

Never go full retard

Typhus did in fact kill many of the 6 billion. This is a fact.

Regardless, the claim that most Holocaust deaths were due to typhus only clears the Nazis of guilt if equal numbers of Jews would have died from typhus had they not been forcibly relocated.

Considering it's carried by lice, yes sanitation has something to do with it

Fleas is unsanitary

Kill yourself kike.

Not a kike, just not retarded

not really dude, that's like saying involuntary manslaughter and first degree murder is the same thing.

Nothing involuntary about it. They deliberately took people, put them in camps, and denied them basics like cleanliness. It would be closer to voluntary manslaughter, or locking someone in your basement to starve to death which I am pretty sure is murder.

Look. If you put people into camps and basically force them into those conditions, you are responsible for the typhus outbreak.

And yeah, typhus killed more Jews than gas or bullets, but its not like the Nazis tried to mitigate them all dying.

>dindu

So are the typhus deaths included in the 6 million?

Yes

Thats not really fair desu, how big proportion of the 6 million is typhus caused?

>typhus killed more Jews than gas or bullets
This is not true. We don't know how many people were killed by typhus.

We don't know and we will never know. It's irrelevant, though. We know how many people died in extermination camps. Epidemics could only spread in ghettos and concentration camps. Auschwitz was both a concentration and death camp, so a typhus epidemic was possible there.

What's unfair about it? Depriving people of basic care while under the states custody is criminal negligence

>not fair
Really? Forcing those people into camps wasn't fair. If I have an ill child and do nothing to help them, I am guilty of negligence and responsible for their death. If the Typhus only spread as a result of conditions that the Nazis maintained, then they're guilty.

They obviously caused the typhus deaths too but its a big difference between directly kill and indirectly kill and most of the time they are all grouped as direct with all the focus being put on the gas chamber and executions while little focus is put on disease and starvation.

>shoves you into overcrowded unsanitary conditions
>your immune system sucks because you're malnourished
>you get Typhus and I provide no medical care
>you die
"Nah man it wasn't my fault"

Most people that were not able to work were killed.

>its a big difference between directly kill and indirectly kill
No, not really, would you also say the Hunger Plan wasn't a direct murder of millions of Slavs if it went into effect?

>little focus is put on disease and starvation.
if you actually read history books on WWII that cover the holocaust, no. starvation especially was a problem because of the small rations (bread, watery soup, and coffee substitute) that inmates were given. smuggling was big in auscwitz, and those who survived for several years there almost all did so because they were able to exchange items for food from civilian workers at the complex

>This is not true.
>We don't know how many people were killed by typhus.

Then you can't possibly know it isn't true.

and Allied carpetbombing of all relevant German infrastructure had nothing to do with it?

>and Allied carpetbombing of all relevant German infrastructure had nothing to do with it?

That was just Auswitch that was affected

We know how many people were killed in certain extermination camps. We also know how many people were shot. At least 2.5 million people were killed that way, and I'm not even counting Auschwitz.

>and Allied carpetbombing of all relevant German infrastructure had nothing to do with it?
Yes. There was a deliberate policy to exterminate the Jews.

I'll use the child comparison again. If I get laid off from my job and I can no longer provide adequate care for my child, I have a responsibility to turn the child over to someone who can. If I fail to do so and the child dies, once again I am guilty of negligence and responsible for the child's death. Also your argument is shit because the allies didn't randomly decide to target German infrastructure, Germany started the war and had been bombing British cities since the start of the war. Those prisoners were in camps for no reason, so forcing them to stay there without basic necessities was murder.

Considering that Birkenau alone is responsible for the order of 8-900,000 deaths, mostly by gassing, and that doesn't even count the AR kills, you're going to have to show a lot of typhus victims to even be a blip on the radar.

I'd like to see your evidence, assuming you have any.

>and Allied carpetbombing of all relevant German infrastructure had nothing to do with it?
Please, show me some "relevant German infrastructure" that was destroyed by Allied bombing that prevented supplies from reaching the camps.

Especially since an inordinate amount of Holocaust victims were murdered before the battle of the Ruhr, and that there's no real causal connection between disrupting coal and steel production in West Germany to food and transport in Poland. Seriously, show me some actual evidence that supply disruptions actually being caused in those Polish camps with the super-high death tolls. All that "Massive Allied carpet bombing" couldn't stop the Germans from sending about 1.7 million soldiers to France in 1944, and not only keep them fed, but keep them supplied with hundreds of tons of ammo per division per day. Why is it suddenly so overwhelming and deadly far away from the epicenters of bombing?

>ITT: (((Veeky Forumstorians))) get absolutely BTFO'D with pure facts and statistics

LOL

Yeah watching retarded wehraboos getting destroyed is fun.

Bombing western Germany means the germans had to put in more effort there which in turn means they could not waste as much effort on the camps who were obviously underprioritized.
I wouldn't say the bombings caused it all like the neonazis do but it did help.

>using "wehraboo" as synonym for holocaust denier/nazi apologist

This is as Veeky Forums as HRE and pregnant Anne Frank.

And Germany CHOSE to feed soldiers instead and let civilians die, many of which were German citizens. It's funny that they could still provide extra rations in Berlin on Hitler's birthday while innocents starved to death in camps.

Wehraboos ARE nazi apologists though. The Wehrmacht actively participated in war crimes against Poles and Yugoslavian partisans. Denying this is a clear sign of revisionism

>(((partisans)))
>not deserving of being lined up in a field and shot

>Blatant racism and trolling will not be tolerated, and a high level of discourse is expected

It's just the nature of anti-partisan warfare. When your unit gets hit several times in a row by non-uniformed combatants, you don't know who is a combatant and who isn't, you end up killing civilians indiscriminately just to make sure. Literally every single country that had to combat partisan units in an occupied territory (USSR in Afghanistan, USA in Vietnam, British and German empires in Africa) did this.
>inb4 muh wymyn and chillunz
Those tend to be some of the most deadly fighters.

Partisanry is in itself a war crime so you cant blame them for that

I'm not trolling. What would they expect openly engaging in hostilities with the Wehrmacht would gain them?

No they aren't, retard. There's a difference between "Stgs were so kewl" or "Rommel was a genius" type of kids and actual "Hitler dindu nuffin" retards.

Can you stop using your dumb anti-Semitic memes?

Most people are fans of Rommel, you are a wehraboo if you like the other generals in the Wehrmacht

Wehraboos often defend Wehrmacht and propagate the myth of clean Wehrmacht.

What anti-Semitic memes? Are you autistic?

He's a kike who got triggered by ((())) is my guess.

According to the Holocaust Museum, the Germans directly executed about 2.5 million. However, I am not sure about this since Germans didn't keep that well of records.

Also I want to point out, the Germans killed 20 million civilians over all so technically the Jews were a minority.

They killed about 10 million Russians which 2-3 million were Russian POWs.

Yeah exhaustion from hard labour was also a reason.

My grandpa is lost a brother of typhus during the war. Logistics were cut off, no medicine, little food. Thanks Germany.

All Germans appeared to be in the wehrmacht after the war. Not by ideology, but forced. Yeah right.

It's just humanity. Unfortunately we learn slow for an "intelligent" species.

Well it would be difficult for the Germans to get medical supplies and other stuff to camps that have thousands of people in them. Between food shortages and bombed infrastructure, it would be inevitable that people would die from stuff like malnutrition in the camps.

Minority or not, the Jews were the scapegoat of the Nazis. The civilians killed collateral damage.

Ever heard of genocide? It is actually a plan to wipe out a specific targeted group of people and makes it premeditated murder on a large scale.

Yeah that's why my granddads generation actually welcomed the bombers flying over day and night. Even if they became isolated, took its toll on them. Having those Nazis around longer wasn't an option either.

Behold their hero.

>POWs
>Civilians

"shrug" they were considered enemies and were imprisoned. During that time lice were hard to control. Put that many people in one place at one time there was going to be lice epidemic.

If they were treated the same as any other prisoner of the time your argument fails. If they were "denied cleanliness" the way you seem to think, you have a point. I think it bears mentioning though that the nazis were trying to control lice. A tour at Auschwitz will tell you about them treating bedding with zyclon, and shaving heads for exactly that reason.

You're not a kike, you're Satan.

They were not denied any cleanliness, as per Himmler's words. What happened is that after the Allies started bombing German supply lines, the Germans could no longer feed their prisoners so many Jews starved. Nothing in the range of even 2 million though. 1 million at best.

>I don't understand how railroads work
Seriously, it's not about a lack of "effort" (effort in what?) or even a lack of trains or railcars. Carpet bombing of transportation worked by destroying rail lines and rail stations, hopefully faster than they could be replaced.

Show your shit. Which camps had supply difficulties? When? Under what circumstances? How are you linking these to the supposed typhus deaths?

yeah, and that's why all those French and British PoWs all starved and got typhus, since you know they were in the same camps and everything, and you can't break down death toll percentages with clear distinctions between "untermenschen" and not.

>"shrug"

The greatest trick Satan ever pulled was convincing the world he's a Jew.

Not sure if this is pro-jewish or anti-jewish

>The Germans aren't responsible for putting innocent civilians into unsanitary camps that mean sure death, knowing it would kill them
>But The Allies are somehow directly responsible for bombing that may or may not have lead to supply shortages in a country they were at war with

Hmm... If only there were some way we could classify this argument. Some group of people that always try to defend Nazi Germany and shift blame onto others with conspiracy-thin connections while ignoring blatant hypocrisy. Dang I guess it just doesn't exist.

don't put words in my mouth faggot

Then, pray tell, what are you trying to say?

retard obviously can't read, assumes everyone who disagrees with him thinks the same thing

No, seriously, what is your point with "muh allied strategic bombing" if not to take the blame off of the Nazi regime and place it onto the Western Allies? What is your proof that Allied strategic bombing even impacted supply shipments, or created hygenic problems? Why would you grasp for such a tremendously thin straw, not even laying out how your argument is supposed to work, if you aren't trying to naziboo shill?

...

>germans put prisoners in camps
>you bomb supply lines to said camps
>HOW DARE THE GERMANS DENY THE BASICS

>They killed about 10 million Russians which 2-3 million were Russian POWs.
Considering the suffering and oppression they subjugated the entirety of eastern Europe to for hundreds of years, I see absolutely no issue with this.

Please, which camps had deaths due to supply difficulties? Which supplies were disrupted? How was this done when even the far more focused western bombing campaigns couldn't stop the fielding of million men armies in France? Why were there attempts to drag the prisoners with them when the camps were closed down?

>doesn't know that Germans themselves were experiencing food shortages.

>Changing the subject
Which camps had deaths due to supply difficulties? Which supplies were disrupted? How was this done when the far more focused bombinng campaigns in the western reaches of Europe couldn't stop armies of well over a million from fighting? Why did they attempt to take the prisoners with them when they liquidated camps?

For that matter, do you have any numbers on how many ethnic Germans starved to death?

t. kike

Honestly what stuck out to me at first was how he shifted blame from the Germans to the Allies. But after looking at it again the funniest part is how he can't even keep straight how he tries to use argument from ignorance.
First he says we don't know how many deaths are from gunfire/gassing vs typhus so we can't make any statements about what killed more Jews... But! We also don't know how much allied bombing influenced it so it's totally safe to assume the influence was really big :^)

I can see why you'd hate jews if you assume that everyone who's smarter than you is jewish.

5.9 million

Killing POWs is a war crime.

Guess the Wannsee Conference and the record found by Kempner was a meme

Yet to have any Holocaust deniers answer a single question from pic related.

It's a "the Allies did the holocaust by bombing supply lines. Disregard that supplies still managed to get through to the front lines and to camps housing Allied military prisoners without causing anywhere near the same level of starvation and disease, despite being connected to the same supply network" episode.

The Nazis are responsible for the Typhus deaths because they are responsible for imprisoning them, you fucking morons.

>a historian says it, so it must be true for all time!!!!!
>he's Jewish too! That makes him extra super expert!!!!