Why was Greece irrelevant for majority of its history?

>They were cool and all but back in those days they didn't really shine.

Let's see...

Minoans colonized West Anatolia and gave their script to Cyprus.

Egyptians and Mesopotamians had Minoan artisans painting their frescos (see Avaris) and adopted Minoan objects

Myceneans did the same and extended their influence to Cilicia and the Levant, and created a network that went from Syria to Sardinia

There were many impressive civilizations in the 2nd millenium BC. Greece was not a center of civilization at the time although on the road to becoming one.

So not being "the center of civilization" (The fuck does it even mean?) means being irrelevant?

They clearly were a regional power and the Hittite king addressed the Achaian king as his "bother", a honor granted only to the kings of great kingdoms such as Babylon or Egypt.

So you have to be a "center of civilization(?)" to be relevant?

I think you lack perspective.

Do you understand what "relevant" means?

Was Germany relevant in the bronze age?

No, well more than England but still very irrelevant

The swords they sued ended up being widespread in the Eastern Med somehow though (Naue II)

Both Germany and England didn't exist during Bronze Age.

this meme again

The cultures that inhabited the landmasses that make up Germany and England, better?

The cultures that inhabited the landmasses that make up Germany and England today, better?

I'd argue that Urnfield culture had enormous importance and impact and that equals relevance.

Yes but it's hard to find its core, I don't know if it's Germany or Hungary

No.
Are you trying to compare the Mycenae with bronze age Germany?
Please explain why Mycenae was irrelevant.

Not him but I think Pylos and Knossos were more relevant than Mycenae, they certainly were much bigger

Mycenean Greece was fairly advanced and had some influence on the surrounding cultures but Urnfield influence extended over about half of Europe. Granted it wasn't specifically German in the modern sense as Germany wasn't a thing.

They didn't have anyting to do with Germans or Anglos ffs.

So then Minoans have nothing to do with modern Greeks?

Well yeah, I agree with that too.
Consider how the Mycenean civilization influenced later Greek ones, and how THOSE shaped western ideals.

Many Cretans from the Lasithi region come from Minoan peoples. Even then, we need to decipher the minoan language before coming to conculsions.
Why are you writing like a kid though?

They aren't even the same people genetically.

This isn't entirely correct.

False

Modern Greeks have more Turkish and Arab admixture than Minoans, Mycenaeans and Trojans had.

>genetic continuity matters only when I say it does

yeah like 1% more, give me a break

>1% more,
Turks weren't present in Ancient Greece and Anatolia for that matter.
Modern Greeks are literal genetic trash compared to their ancestors.

So this means they are completely different? How?
>No it only matters when I want it

Fuck off with the baits. This was a good thread.

Anyway, Minoan civilization certainly doesn't begin with foreign influence so it's pretty insane to link them with Indo-European speaking Greeks.

But I do think Greeks can consider Minoans their ancestors if they want to as long they aren't hypocritical about it

>Modern Greeks are literal genetic trash compared to their ancestors.
Except Greeks don't have that much Turkish admixture. It seems however that you must absolutely believe this fact for some reason or another. What have Greeks done to you?

>it's another greeks aren't greeks thread

Well there isn't much relation with Minoans, I already said that in a previous post. There are some descendants though.

What? Turks had more anatolian than turkic in them when they conquered greece

Nope, I hear this for the first time.

>Greeks are Turks

lol

You're a faggot.

Cretans are literally descended from Minoans and they look just like other Greeks

disgusting

EEeeeew

Turks are descended primarily from Anatolian populations that have always been there. Studies have shown continuity between ancient and modern Greeks. Greeks being Southern Europeans have always been majority olive-swarthy skinned and dark haired though with a noticeable fair element as well: about 7%. Nord fantasies need to die. If these stormfags could time travel back to Classical times and see for themselves, they would be sorely disappointed.

>Studies have shown continuity between ancient and modern Greeks.
Source?

Turks come from Oghuz Turks. No relation to anatolian populations, if that was true there would actually be some Anatolian language words in turkish; no such words can be found.
I know Greeks aren't really white, I am one myself, I would know. Maniots are pretty much sandniggers actually. But to claim that Turks come from Anatolia isn't true. Look up Turkish dna results and language influence.

>Ottoman policy allowed the various christian ethnic groups of the Balkans to retain their cultures, identities and religions, so when push came to shove, and with western sponsorship and backing, the Balkan peoples started jumpstarting their nation-states.
>Gained independence in the 1800s after roughly 500 years of being an Ottoman backwater province
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_War_of_Independence
>Slowly gained clay closer and closer to the modern borders
>Throw a fit, fuck the king, the Greeks want a constitution
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_September_1843_Revolution
>a few setbacks and a war with the Ottomans
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Turkish_War_(1897)
>Internal political turmoil is always a thing
>Now what, we need clay. Pshht, other Balkan countries, wanna kick the Ottomans out of the Balkans and scramble for clay?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_Wars
>The king is a divisive issue
>Fuck it, let's have two governments. We'll fight a bit for the Entente too.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Schism
>Wow, the great powers have our backs! Time to go into turbo-irredentist mode and invade Anatolia, and fail, and have a population exchange with Turkey.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Turkish_War_(1919–1922)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_exchange_between_Greece_and_Turkey
>Everyone's doing it so we fascist now.
>WW2 is a thing now, and Italy wants to go.
>Spaghetti everywhere.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Italian_War
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Spring_Offensive
>German occupation, famine and atrocity
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_occupation_of_Greece
>WW2 ends. Let's have a civil war.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Civil_War
Send about 1000 troops to fight in the Korean war.
>Hippies.
>A military junta.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_military_junta_of_1967–74

Well suck it up faggots. This is what the majority of your Greeks have always looked like.

>muh mixture
Less than 2%. Nowhere near enough to affect phenotype. Greeks have always looked like this, sorry nordfags. You owe the roots of Western Civilization to people you'd classify as "shitskins" or "mongrels"

You could have mentioned the Pap test as well, which is actually extremely helpful. This is more important than any war.

This is true. The classic Greek style is black, hard hair with deep-brown eyes. And straight noses.

Yeah, I just wanted to give a quick rundown of actual history since everyone is busy memeing about
>muh phenotype

I wish everyone was talking about muh phenotypes, but guys in these threads seem to only absorb what suits their fancy.

>The most complete study of Greek skeletal material from Neolithic to modern times was carried out by American anthropologist J. Lawrence Angel [6] who found that in the early age racial variability in Greece was 7% above average, indicating that the Greeks had multiple origins within the Europid racial family. Angel noted that from the earliest times to the present “racial continuity in Greece is striking.” Buxton [30] who had earlier studied Greek skeletal material and measured modern Greeks, especially in Cyprus, finds that the modern Greeks “possess physical characteristics not differing essentially from those of the former [ancient Greeks].”

>The most extensive study of modern Greeks has been carried by the Greek anthropologist Aris N. Poulianos [10,11]. Poulianos’ study included the collection and study of more than seventy anthropometric measurements from a large sample of thousands of Greeks from different parts of the country. His main conclusions are that both Greeks and their neighboring populations are basically a mixture of Aegeans (a Mediterranean type local to the area) and Epirotics (Dinarics(e)) and are descended from the ancient inhabitants of the lands in which they live. The presence of individuals which approximate the Nordic subrace is minimal, and does not exceed 4-6% even in the most depigmented groups of Greece. More frequent are individuals which approximate the Alpine race of Central Europe. These reach up to 20-30% of some groups and are often blended with more southern racial types. Poulianos’ conclusions of Greek continuity are not simply the wishful thinking of a modern Greek. In a critical review of his book [53], J. Lawrence Angel states that “Poulianos is correct in pointing out ... that there is complete continuity genetically from ancient to modern times.”

Greeks have 14% Slavic admixture

Only Greeks from Macedonia though.

Alexander had blonde hair and blue eyes.

So did many Greeks in antiquity too, and nowadays. Slavs were near the Urals by that point in history.

>Slavs were near the Urals by that point in history.
Is that /alt/history?

Alexander actually had too different coloured eyes.

No.
Do all people that have blonde hair come from Slavs?

Belarus isn't really that close to the Urals.
Actually, Greek colonists in the Azov would have been much closer to them.

It seemed close to me, really.
Still doesn't make Greeks slavs though. If anything you can call them egyptians as they share much of their DNA with other mediterranean peeps.

Slavs were present at Dniepr, Danube and even Vistula for some time after Indo-European spread.
Slavs at Ural? That's some new alt history fantasy.
I don't know why did you bring Slavs into it.

It's a fact that Alexander had blonde hair and light features were considered godly by the ancients. Maybe because they were so rare.

According to historians centuries later. This is portrait is the closest to his own time. But even if he did have blonde hair, blonde hair has always been a minority but notable trait amongst Greeks and other meds

>Slavs at Ural? That's some new alt history fantasy.
I am certain that some theories place Slavs at Ural or the steppes.
>I don't know why did you bring Slavs into it.
I didn't. The other guy did with his slav admixture stuff.

>That's some new alt history fantasy.
Haven't you seen the thread you are posting in?

>I am certain that some theories place Slavs at Ural or the steppes.

Yes the same one which places Germanics and Celts and Greeks there. The Kurgan hypothesis for Indo-European languages.

No man, I mean after the first great IE migration. I think the Slavs chilled there for a bit, didn't they?
Anyway this is off topic. We can make a new thread about Slavs.

Its probably a bit more than 1%. Look at Cyrpus for example.

>We can make a new thread about Slavs.
That's pointless on this website. You can't have mature discussion here.

I don't think anyone believes that except /pol/

The Urals had Finno-Ugric and Indo-Iranian groups. Slavs were still Balto-Slavic so not distinct from Lithuanians until a much later point.

Well, in this thread at least we didn't insult each other even if phrases like "greeks are genetic trash" were thrown out.

Yes, I googled slav origin and saw my mistake. It is closer to Ukarine/Poland than the urals.

It was relevant for most of its history.

Cyprus isn't Greece and it never was genetically Greek considering it was initially settled by people from Anatolia and Syria

Except it is kinda mostly Greek right now, even genetically.

No, it's not, they of course have some significant Greek ancestry too but they're clearly distinct from Greeks genetically and are closer to Levantines than mainland Greeks

>Levantines than mainland Greeks
Only for certain parts of the island though, and their Greek admixture is pretty high even then.

Cyprus is pure Levantine.
If there's any difference to the Lebanese homeland it's because the Lebanese have changed.

Wait, I noticed modern day Lebanese have a lot of nigger admixture, like a LOT whereas ancient Pheonicians had 0

>Cyprus is pure Levantine.
No.

It's an edit though. If you look carefully you see that the blue was painted red by some memer.
Iraqi Jews seem to be the closest relatives of the Cypriots which makes tons of sense, both were more isolated than other Levantine descendants.

Fuck off Stomcuck. Stop denying Cypriot heritage because you don't like it. They are damn pure of a race without any Aryan rapists in their family tree.

>Fuck off Stomcuck
Are you an idiot?
I am just saying that Cyprus isn't purely Levantine, as it DOES have many Greek elements. Relax, I am not even right wing, if anything I consider Semites closer to us than Norse/Germanic peeps. But Cyprus being full Levantine is incorrect mate.
Yes I am Greek.

It's the other way around 2bh

While Greek Cypriots share culture with the Greeks they are native to Cyprus.
It goes against all the genetic studies that more than 1/10 of their ancestors came from Greece or Italy.

It is more than half desu.

Based on what?

ok it's 25%
still not even close to 1/10

Heh
This thread reinforced my belief that I am closer to Arabs than Germanics.
How can I expoit this in a we wuz way?

Minoans have to do with modern day Cretans genetically and a little bit culturally, but nothing to do with modern day Greeks.

I agree, but modern day Cretans are Greeks.

Cypriots have very little of the green component, almost nothing.
Their mixture seems to be Anatolian neolithic farmer(blue) with a much, much larger amount of metal age Levantine on top of that.

This is of course just one study but everything I've ever seen about Cypriots agreed with exception.

The blue stuff is mostly similar though
So we are at least cousins with the Cypriots.
Are we cousins with Jews too?