Holocaust

this is a common /pol/ strategy actually

They aren't lies. Try refuting them. You can't.

1. Because getting rid of the untermensch was an explicit objective for hitler, and he saw jews as german enemies. It's pretty hilarious that a stormfag would ask this question considering most stormfags want to kill jews too.
2. Because shooting them had psychological effects, although they did it too. And no, nazis weren't efficient.
3. Because there's a shit ton of them and they are supported by every kind of evidence.
4. Because most jews and other untermensch were in the east. Not that western historians didn't study them extensively.
5. Irrelevant to the veracity of the holocaust.
6. Irrelevant to the veracity of the holocaust.
7. Because it is seen, for good reason, as an attempt to clean the name of nazis and as an instigation of hatred and antisemitism. The armenian genocide is illegal in some countries for the latter reason too.
Let me quickly add that this method of asking rhetorical questions is absolutely fucking retarded and is only used for brainwashing purposes. A bunch of rationalizations do not constitute even an attempt to refute official history. Come back when you have any kind of evidence.

1. Getting rid = deportation. There are no speeches or documents where Hitler said he wanted genocide.
2. >germans weren't efficient
funny
3. Jewish lies
4. ok
5. ok
6. ok
7. Many other genocides aren't illegal to question, there is no fucking reason to make the holocaust illegal other than to prevent the rise of something that would threaten (((them)))
"official history"
History is told by the victors. Bet you think Hitler was a racist that wanted to take over the world and kill all non whites.

>history is told by the victors

That fucking meme over and over again.
You can use it to justify ANY FUCKING THEORY

>history is told by the victors

That fucking meme over and over again used to "Add credibility" in ANY FUCKING THEORY

I'm convinced the Holocaust deniers our special needs. If you deny the Holocaust you are probably special needs.

fuck me please

>1. Getting rid = deportation. There are no speeches or documents where Hitler said he wanted genocide.
Hitler's speech to the Reichstag, January 30th, 1939. And seriously, how the hell are they supposed to deport Jews ahead of German lines into Soviet occupied territory?

>funny
Yes, they were so efficient they had two separate high commands, OKW and OKH. They refused to standardize parts in their tanks and planes, ensuring they had a clusterfuck of resupply problems all throughout the war.

>3. Jewish lies
Demographic data showing that all the Jews in Poland, Hungary, Yugoslavia, what's now Belarus, etc. is just Jewish lies?
>Many other genocides aren't illegal to question,
And many are; for example, Armenian genocide denial is illegal in most of the countries that criminalize holocaust denial. Denial of soviet atrocities is illegal in the Baltic States.

> there is no fucking reason to make the holocaust illegal other than to prevent the rise of something that would threaten (((them)))
Yes there is, not that you have enough brain power to realize that countries with non-American attitudes towards freedom of speech ban things like that.

>History is told by the victors
That's why the Lost Cause and Dolchstoßlegende just don't exist, right?

New to the thread, but you're being seriously retarded.

>Getting rid = deportation
Not according to the massive amounts of evidence.

>There are no speeches or documents where Hitler said he wanted genocide.
youtube.com/watch?v=QWx7nq_lnQM

>Jewish lies
Great argument.

>Many other genocides aren't illegal to question
Some are and some aren't.

>History is told by the victors
You're a retard.

>what is the haavara agreement
Concentration camps existed to contain the Jews until after the war. And your speech link has no subtitles. I sure do know that he's saying what you say he's saying!
>demographics
Many Jews ran off into the soviet union.
No, there are no reasons other than to prevent the rise of a threat against Jewry.
History is told by the victors. You two are retards.

The handful of countries that ban holocaust denial explicitly did it to preclude neo-Nazi movements from using "skepticism" about the holocaust to recruit new followers and incite hatred for Jews. Sort of like how Stormfront is doing EXACTLY THAT right now!

Websites:
codoh.com/
holocausthandbooks.com/
holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/
eliewieseltattoo.com/
germarrudolf.com/

Videos
>One Third of the Holocaust
m.youtube.com/watch?v=7dxsVSzL4HE&t=0h0m0s
>The Chemistry of Auschwitz
m.youtube.com/watch?v=yddMuQhaDbw&t=0h0m0s
>Buchenwald: A Dumb, Dumb Portrayal of Evil
m.youtube.com/watch?v=wVZ_5yWmBRk
>J Rizoli Channel
m.youtube.com/user/RizoliTV1

Reading:
>The "Extermination Camps" of "Aktion Reinhard" (Rebuttal to Holocaust Controversies bloggers)
holocausthandbooks.com/dl/28-tecoar-long.pdf
>The Leuchter Report (Chemical tests on gas chambers)
holocausthandbooks.com/dl/16-tlr.pdf
>The Rudolf Report (Vindication of Leuchter)
zaidpub.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/holocaust_-the-rudolf-report.pdf
>Lectures on the Holocaust (Great read for beginners)
holocausthandbooks.com/dl/15-loth.pdf

Pastebin:
pastebin.com/Uc1EkvGZ

>what is the haavara agreement
Something well before his statements of annihilation. This might come as a shock to you, but sometimes policies shift.

>Concentration camps existed to contain the Jews until after the war.
WHich is why they needed to have cremation capacity to incinerate the entire camp population in a week, and transit records show millions more people coming in than coming out?

>Many Jews ran off into the soviet union.
No they didn't. How could they? The borders were closed.

>No, there are no reasons other than to prevent the rise of a threat against Jewry.
So, the illegality of denying the Armenian genocide is also to "prevent the rise of a threat against Jewry"?

>History is told by the victors.
No it isn't. In fact, the Nazis rose to power primarily on pseudohistory told by the losers of WW1.

>Concentration camps existed to contain the Jews until after the war.
Train records have millions of jews deported to concentration camps and magically disappearing. So no, they didn't contain them.
Not to mention all the evidence supporting extermination.

>And your speech link has no subtitles. I sure do know that he's saying what you say he's saying!
There's a transcript in the description. There's also a bunch of stormtards in the comments translating and justifying him. Now this defense reeks of desperation, what you claimed is objectively wrong and you know it. Then again, the /pol/tard pics you keep posting have been refuted again and again, so it's not like you care about truth.

>Many Jews ran off into the soviet union.
Please be my guest and provide ANY kind of evidence for this claim. In fact, I'd like to know why train records show jews being sent to death camps and never coming out. Was there a magical portal to allied countries in those camps?

>History is told by the victors.
>I CAN BELIEVE WHAT I WANT I DON'T NEED EVIDENCE STOP BULLYING ME!

>cremation
They literally did not have enough coke to burn all the bodies, and why would they waste materials during a war against the soviets?
2, jews help their own
3,I'm talking about the holohoax not armenia, autist.
4 Yes it is
no evidence supportiomg extermination other than witness testimonies

you goyim are autistic, see

>literally no argument but youtube videos and shit refuted to death like the leuchter report
How can historians ever recover!

also the transcript still isnt english, jew

>not bothering to look at other arguments
well i guess 12 trillion jews really did die

>They literally did not have enough coke to burn all the bodies
Yes they did. archive.org/stream/BodyDisposalAtAuschwitzTheEndOfHolocaustDenial/BDA_djvu.txt

> and why would they waste materials during a war against the soviets?
The same reason they wasted enormous amounts of steel on the XXI submarine, or that huge sink of money, scientific endeavor, and fuel that was the V rocket program that produced no military results. They were actually pretty inefficient and driven by ideology first, results second.

>2, jews help their own
The Soviet Union wasn't Jewish, and of course, that doesn't matter as the borders were closed and were a warzone under a regime that sharply limited travel. There is also of course no evidence of the Jewish population of the USSR rising to accomodate these extra Jews, and a lot of stuff like the Jager report talking about how the Germans were killing Jews in the USSR as well.

>3,I'm talking about the holohoax not armenia, autist.
Yes, but Armenian genocide denial is also banned. Clearly, if the reason for the banning of genocidal denial is to "aid international jewry", other genocidal denials must be in the same category.

>4 Yes it is
Then how did the Dolchstoßlegende get started?

>no evidence supporting extermination other than witness testimonies
>
holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2012/10/index-of-published-evidence-on.html
4archive.org/board/his/thread/509405
imgur.com/gallery/725A7

>stormfag is too retarded to translate a text, read the comments, or google a translated version
>stormfag finds himself incapable of defending his position and accuses everyone of being part of the conspiracy

>not bothering to look at other arguments
But I did. Not that they can be considered arguments.
>a bachelor in arts that didn't know what the concentration of gas to kill humans was and performing the wrong chemical test on random pieces of brick that were subjected to rain in a laboratory that didn't know what he was trying to do and pulverized the evidence and was later refuted by an actual forensic institute is an argument

Daddy Mengele taught me that the scientific method is a jewish lie and one-off experiments with flawed methodology are always acceptable.

fake. anime proves that the holocaust didnt happen idiots

6 million is simply an unrealistic number. Anyone that believes this shit is retarded

It was actually more like 11 million.

Several million more starved in the Ukraine under the guidance of Komrade Stalin. When you've got a few years and the facilities to do it, murder becomes much more efficient.

Holy shit, great argument. You should really publish your finding in an academic paper. 6 million sounds to high to random user guys, better dismiss all the evidence, it's over.
Now that I think about it, 80% nitrogen in the air sounds too high to me. It should be AT MOST 50%, and that's being generous. I'll go call some scientists now.

Irving is a real historian. The court case which proved his holocaust denial arguments false also certified that he was a legitimate historian who had made real contributions to the study of WW2 in the 60s and 70s.

In particular, he is credited with figuring out based on archival data that British intelligence had broken Enigma years before the existence of Ultra was declassified in the 70s. He agreed to keep this secret until it was formally declassified.

His holocaust revisionism was plainly shown to be based on wilful mistranslations and misreadings of primary sources but he was a credible historian in his field.

Didn't he literally make up a bunch of shit regarding dresden?

>Germany had not history of genocide
Read about the Herero War, then shoot yourself in the mouth.

iirc that came up in the trial and it was shown he used a primary source (the one claiming 200,000 instead of 20,000) document that was blatantly doctored and easily refuted by other primary sources. He didn't doctor it himself but he did accept it uncritically to advance his own agenda.

Irving v. Lipstadt is a really fascinating case everyone on Veeky Forums should read before engaging with revisionist talking points.
>Lipstadt publishes a book which calls Irving a holocaust denier and racist for statements he made
>Irving sues in UK court for libel (libel law in the UK massively favors the plaintiff, so if there were even reasonable doubt about his claims he would win)
>Irving contends he said nothing false, so the trial essentially becomes an inquest into proving or disproving the gas chambers, Hitler's intent to commit genocide, and whether Dresden was a war crime
>the court has to subpeona John Keegan as a hostile witness in order to attest that Irving was, at one point, a credible historian
>auschwitz photos publicly examined by experts (the one point the judge found in Irving's favor was that there is reasonable doubt whether the photo of the crematoria shows the holes in the roof)
>supposedly contradictory eyewitness testimony reviewed and explained
>linguistic analysis of the translation of words like 'ausrotten'
>detailed examination of the Leuchter and Pressac reports

If anyone says they never gave the "evidence" a fair hearing, they quite literally did in a public trial. You can read the transcripts.

Not the guy who posted this, but if you want hte conclusion:
bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2000/115.html

And if you want the transcripts themselves
fpp.co.uk/Legal/Penguin/transcripts/

>he thinks the Germans were efficient

Yes that's true. The cyanide-ions found on the walls were actually just from the prussian blue, used by the jewish children to finger paint on the walls at their day care center

I never understood where this meme about "ausrotten" came from, to a native German speaker, it has only one meaning (to exterminate), did they mistake it with "ausroden"?

>why would they waste resources

See also:

If only there was some kind of free translation service, that was able to instantly translate copied text from German into English...

>auschwitz had what looks like a swimming pool
>therefore forensic evidence of mass graves with bones with cut marks, fractures and expended bullets is invalid

They aren't credible at all.

Holocaust denial is the Flat earth theory of history.

Again special needs.

If the gas chamber was really just a basement morgue, why did the Germans remove the corpse slide and replace it with stairs?
Did they expect the corpses to walk down there for autopsy?

Yes. With advanced German science, it was possible to have corpses walk.

Nice straw man there buddy. 6 million Jews died in total including around 5 million others deemed undesirable. Why the fuck do neo-Nazis make a straw man that "they said that the Nazis gassed 6 million Jews, lol holohoax" no retards that number of jews killed in total in the genocide not the mention the 5 million others deemed life unworthy of life such as the disabled, the homosexuals, the communists, Soviet POWs, romas and other groups targeted for murder.

fpbp

>That fucking meme over and over again.
>You can use it to justify ANY FUCKING THEORY
Not an argument. Look faggot, i don't care about the Holocaust or your crusade against Anti-Semites and Fascism, but don't even for an atom of a second delude yourself that ''History is written by the victors'' isn't true. If Hitler had won. Everyone with a hook nose would be soap right now and Hitler would've gone down as one of the greatest European rulers along with Julius Caesar and Charlemagne. Who both committed Genocides, but are forgotten because they aren't recent.

I think you are forgetting something retard, by the 1940s, genocide was looked down upon by most in civilized society. Hell the fucking colonial powers in Europe saw how fucked up Belgian Congo and how savage and barbaric King Leopold was, so no not one second would anyone in history look up to Hitler and the Natsoc regime and say "What a great leader Hitler was."

>funny
How is it possible to be this misinformed?

Were the masturbation machines real?

JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOZ

JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOZ!

(((THEM)))

See how it works you niggerkikecuckcommietrannydildobeanergookshill?

tl;dr, this is your brain on ideology.

If history is written by the victors, why are there loads of testmants and autobiographies about the Nazis? Germany didn't magically fucking disappear after ww2, their point of view is still known and even taught in schools.

Nazi germany was a totalitarian regime that could direct what historians wrote. Nobody is is telling you what you write. The problem is that stormfags don't have any argument, so they victimize themselves to rationalize why their pseudohistory is laughed at.

>but don't even for an atom of a second delude yourself that ''History is written by the victors'' isn't true.
Then explain the Dolchstoßlegende. How could it possibly be something not only taught, but widely believed, and in fact instrumental to the rise of the Nazi party? After all, the victorious Entente was very much against such a notion.

There are so many revisionist historians and some are really good and some are pure garbage.

You should start by youtubing david Irving. David Irving was at one time considered one of the best World War II historians around. His book about the Allied bombing of Dresden was and still is considered one of the greatest books on the subject . He speaks and reads German fluently and has uncovered so much information from the archives that most historians will never even get close to in their life.
>over the last 50 or so years he has gotten a detail here and there wrong but he always corrects himself in the revised versions of his books and explains how and why he got it wrong.

This is a good warm up .its about himmler. How he lived and how he died.
youtu.be/qLZV43m0EJs

Check this one out too.
youtu.be/97L_SJrPl6g
>That is if you are genuinely curious
> I honestly would not recommend it though. Once you go down that hole and you realize the lies that have been told and the purpose of those lies it will fuck your head up.

I don't mean it will turn you into a stormfag. I hope not at least because who needs that in their life. I mean the betrayal you will feel will hit you hard. David Irving is a good start but there are many others that are also good.
>some revisionist historians are gratuitously racist but that doesn't mean they are wrong about everything, however when someone is outwardly racist you have to wonder about their motivations and their judgment on the subject. Below is a good example of someone who is extremely knowledgeable, educated and makes a good argument. Try to tear apart his argument with facts. Been doing this lately for E Michael Jones but not having much luck and it is making me depressed.
youtu.be/iXfOctB-Psc

>His book about the Allied bombing of Dresden was and still is considered one of the greatest books on the subject
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>David Irving was at one time considered one of the best World War II historians around.His book about the Allied bombing of Dresden was and still is considered one of the greatest books on the subject

You do realize it is heavily discredited, and has been since at least the 80s, when one of his 'Principal sources' Max Funfack, wrote about how all the stuff Irving attributed to him was BS and that most of the sources he used to get his six figure death tolls were obvious forgeries, right?

>I think you are forgetting something retard, by the 1940s, genocide was looked down upon by most in civilized society.
Not even remotely true. All anyone needs to do is see what Winston Churchill did in the Bengal famine and India to realize what you said is pure and utter nonsense. Modren day Europeans aren't ''Peaceful'' and ''Tolerant'' because of some racial supperiorty like the Right would say, nor is it because of some Supperior Ideologies like the Left would say. Modren day Europeans are ''Peaceful'' and ''Torleant'' thanks to the economic prosperity of the West and the fact they are at the top. Take those two things out, and they will be just as Imperialistic and Violent as their ancestors.
>Hell the fucking colonial powers in Europe saw how fucked up Belgian Congo and how savage and barbaric King Leopold was
No they didn't give a toss. As long he didn't to mess with them in their colonies, they couldn't careless about his artificial state.
>so no not one second would anyone in history look up to Hitler and the Natsoc regime and say "What a great leader Hitler was."
Yeah that's because he lost. People don't admire losers.

>His book about the Allied bombing of Dresden was and still is considered one of the greatest books on the subject .
Oh yeah, the one where he claimed 300,000 died in the bombings when it was actually 20,000?
Nobody takes Irving seriously anymore

>Germany didn't magically fucking disappear after ww2
It actually did. The Allies took Western Germany and the Soviets took Eastern Germany.
>their point of view is still known and even taught in schools.
Yeah, i'm sure saying Nazis were Satan in human form was what their viewpoints about themselves were.

>There are no speeches or documents where Hitler said he wanted genocide.
Apart from when he literally says towards the end of Der Ewige Jude that "if the international finance Jews push the world into another world war then the result will not be a victory for Jewry but the complete annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe"?

>Nobody is is telling you what you write.
Considering ''Denazification'' was a thing. I'm going to call bullshit.

That was the one I mentioned, yes. I think you mis-clicked who you're replying to.

Going to address the stab in the back myth anytime soon?

>ITT: Stormfags get BTFO

>After all, the victorious Entente was very much against such a notion.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

>it's not that my retarded ideology doesn't have any arguments, it's that a postwar policy carried out in germany in austria and quickly abandoned is preventing me from expressing them! I'm a victim!

I'm not hearing an actual rebuttal, just your own stupidity about how the Western Allies apparently WANTED to be seen as being incapable of defeating Germany in the field (like they actually did), and only winning because of those filthy commies and Jews.

It certainly wouldn't continue onward into WW2 policy and the need for a complete unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany to prevent the resurgence of this sort of legend. Oh, wait a second.

>It was necessary for the Nazi régime and/or the German Generals to surrender unconditionally in order to bring home to the German people that they had lost the War of themselves; so that their defeat should not be attributed to a "stab in the back".

Wheeler-Bennett, John W. (1954). The Nemesis of Power: The German Army in Politics, 1918–1945. London: Macmillan. p. 559.

So, are you simply misinformed, stupid, a stormfag, a combination of the above, or some exotic position I haven't considered?

?

...

...

>it's not that my retarded ideology doesn't have any arguments, it's that a postwar policy carried out in germany in austria and quickly abandoned is preventing me from expressing them! I'm a victim!
Spare me the attempts at sarcasm and ridicule. You tried to say no one dictated what to write about the Nazis and i called on your bullshit. either address the argument or lost the argument.

Denazification did not invade academia, and it certainly didn't extend outside of Germany itself. You have numerous post-war memoirs idolizing the Nazi state, such as Es geht um das Reich (Hans Rudel), or other, pseudoacademic works like Hitler's war. Denazification didn't stop them from existing, or from being sold.

I'm not saying censorship has never existed through history retard, I'm saying nobody is directing what historians write now (in democratic countries). Not that historians were told what to write during denazification either.

The Western allies didn't give a fuck about the Germans scapegoating their defeat on their Jewish civilians. They saw it as Germans fighting among each other and laughed their asses off about.

>I'm saying nobody is directing what historians write now (in democratic countries). Not that historians were told what to write during denazification either.
Considering that questioning the Holocaust and trying to revise it is literally illegal in many ''Democratic'' countries. I ain't buying what you're selling.

Considering stormtards are incapable of forming a coherent argument in countries that didn't make it illegal, I ain't buying what you're selling. In fact nobody is censoring you right now and you are still incapable.
You only have yourself to blame for a) believing in retarded shit without proper evidence/justification, or b) being incapable of expressing said evidence/justification. Everything else is rationalizing your stupidity.

>Denazification did not invade academia, and it certainly didn't extend outside of Germany itself. You have numerous post-war memoirs idolizing the Nazi state, such as Es geht um das Reich (Hans Rudel), or other, pseudoacademic works like Hitler's war. Denazification didn't stop them from existing, or from being sold.
Who gives a shit?. If i went to Saudi Arabia, destroyed the Kabba, closed all mosques, banned the Hijab, and forced schools to teach that the Koran is evil and bigotted. Who cares if i let some Islamists in Academia talk positively about Islam if i suppressed it in all other sectors of society?

I'm sure you can source this rather sweeping claim of yours that actually undercuts your main argument that "history is written by the victors".

When you say "history is written by the victors" referring to our best knowledge of past events you are talking about academia, not popular history. In this same thread it is used to justify being in disagreement with academia.

>Who gives a shit?
People who are interested in history, for starters. You know, since the entire argument is "The Nazis couldn't get their side of the story out", except when it did get out and was in fact published.

>If i went to Saudi Arabia, destroyed the Kabba, closed all mosques, banned the Hijab, and forced schools to teach that the Koran is evil and bigotted. Who cares if i let some Islamists in Academia talk positively about Islam if i suppressed it in all other sectors of society?
Nice false equivalence there, especially since it overlooks the fact that stuff can and was published outside the occupied country. Are you incapable of seeing how they're not the same, or are you lying deliberately?

>Closing mosques, destroying the Kabba, banning the Hijab, etc
>Somehow equivalent to banning holocaust denial

Fantastic example of a false equivalence there.

Germans killed 10 million Soviet civilians.

And about 4 million non-Jew non-Soviets civilians.

Japs killed about 14 million Chinese.

6 million?

Whoop de doo.

Oh yeah and several million Soviet and Polish POWS seemed die under the care of the Germans.

>evidence
>blogpost
>Veeky Forums posts
>imgut

...

Every one of those has links to primary sources, retard. The first is a fucking index of primary sources, who cares where it is posted.

Why don't you offer me evidence to the contrary. I'm not a partisan, I don't care about political parties or race. I don't care about winning an internet argument. The only thing I really care about is the truth. Educate me. He has revised the number of Civilian deaths, and the number he gives today is still slightly different from a lot of mainstream historians. That is basically the only thing that people say to discredit the whole book entirely. People only started to discredit that book (which was an international bestseller and is still used as a source by other historians writing about the subject) when he pointed out that there is no actual evidence that Auschwitz was used as an extermination camp, but rather a brutal slave labor camp.

So I'm all ears here. Educate me. Tear his argument apart. I'm being completely genuine because I want to know.
youtu.be/UcBVkzpYznM

see

Why would there be a swimming pool and frequent Red Cross inspections at a death camp?
Why would the nazis use the same gas used on clothes for typhus prevention to kill people when more efficient nerve agents existed?
Why would a "gas chamber" have a wooden door?
Why would the Nazis tattoo people that they were going to kill and then burn?
Why were there so many survivors of a genocide supposedly carried out by the most efficient people ever?
Why was right of conquest given to every western nation until the Jew controlled global media was created?

>Why would there be a swimming pool
For guards.

>frequent Red Cross inspections at a death camp
They weren't frequent nor at death camps.

>Why would the nazis use the same gas used on clothes for typhus prevention to kill people when more efficient nerve agents existed?
Because it was already being mass produced.

>Why would a "gas chamber" have a wooden door?
They didn't (at least the exterior ones).

>Why would the Nazis tattoo people that they were going to kill and then burn?
To identify them.

>Why were there so many survivors of a genocide
There aren't that many survivors from death camps.

>by the most efficient people ever?
They weren't efficient.

>Why was right of conquest given to every western nation until the Jew controlled global media was created?
Lel, not even trying anymore, are we?

>Germans
>Efficient

Kek.